Trapiche - where from?

[valeria101]

The object below bears a good degree of resenblance to 'trapiche' corrundum. If I am not seing things, this is the largest example I heard of, and comes from a different location than I would expect.

Until present, I sort of know these are found in non-gem grade (like this), tabular (like this seems to ahve been) and tiny sizes up to 5mm or so (unlike this) found in African alluvial rough (this is allegedly Burmese). Obviously, some of this info needs updating... Any thoughts? Sources?

Thanks!

 

[mike04456]

Trapiche rubies, sapphires, and emeralds occur in a lot of places, and I have seen examples far larger than 5 mm. At Tucson in February, I saw a trapiche emerald crystal that was a good 3 cm high and maybe 15 mm across. I have also seen, believe it or not, trapiche rubies that also displayed true asterism (stars) in addition to the inclusion-created arms.




Trapiche corundum is well-known from Burma, in fact, most reported trapiche rubies have been found there.

 

[valeria101]

Nice record... You must be taking this quite seriously! Thanks!

 

[mogok]

Hello,

Yes, trapiche rubies and sapphires are found in Burma (Myanmar).

Trapiche rubies are usualy found in the Mong Shu mining district in the Shan State. You can see some exemples of such rubies on my photograph. They are usually small in size.
Trapiche sapphires on the other hand are found in the famous Mogok Stone Tract. Along with this trapiche it is possible to get some very rare star trapiche sapphires as the one you can discover set in the burmese native gold ring in my photo.
The star is usually exactly supperposed to the trapiche branchs. But last year I've found and bought one stone with the star exactly in the center of the trapiche branch... It was the only one specimen of this kind I've got for 6 of the first kind.
About the size I've recently bought a 39,2 grams good specimen. So make the calculation: Its nearly 200 carats!

All the best,

Mogok, Bangkok based gemologist.

 

[valeria101]

Nice sight! Are those reds ever of good transparency (as one may expect from high quality trapiche emerald) even small ?

 

[mogok]

Well I've never really seen a true transparent trapiche ruby from Mong shu. Translucent: Yes, but they have some fiber like inclusions radiating from the trapiche star that make them to the best translucent.
Whatever they are not as nice as some trapiche emerald I've seen!
Whatever they are interesting specimens as collector items or sometimes also for jewelry purpose...

All the best,

Mogok, Bangkok based gemologist

 

[mogok]

Ooops
I post my photo in the wrong question:
Ana, here is the place I wanted my Mong Shu trapiche ruby to be:
Photo 1 and 2 are the same stone: A Burmese trapiche ruby cabochon from the Mong Shu mines in Shan state. I dont have seen a lot of them as usually these stones are small and so its not possible to do a lot of things with them. Anyway: This trapiche ruby was the best I've seen cut up to now. It is as you can see more translucent than transparent but I'm sure that there are better stones of this kind around. I'm not that specialized in Mong Shu staff... That's a point.

The third photo is a nice little star ruby from Luc Yen in Vietnam... This stone own its 2 star to twinning. It is more pink than red but for stars: pink or red: Its ruby!
stupid isn't it? What ever the stone is nice and natural, that's what matters more than terminology!

All the best,

 

[valeria101]

He he, the double star looks very tempting ideed! I was looking for a jewelry-worthy trapiche for a while, but stopped when huge effort resulted in one African specimen (transparent but of a rather dull reddish-gray ) just bigger than a dot. Well, whatever....

Ok: I envy your work environment already! Thanks for the wealth of color your postings have brought to Pricescope: they were badly needed in this "colorless" environment.

 

[mogok]

Well,
Thanks for your words AnA...
Its clear I'm lucky to live mostly amoung rubies, sapphires and spinels more than diamonds even if I'm also working a little bit everyday with diamonds in the lab when they ask me...

For the jewelry quality trapiche ruby: Thats a point... You will die old before to find one!
For sapphire its more easy!

I will try to get you one or 2 photos today!

 

[Mikey7]

i just picked up a trapche ruby from Mogok. Not a high quality stone I dont think. The starring is very good but the stone is quite dark blackish purple. This leads me to the question- What do you consider to be a quality Trapiche and have any of you seen a market for them?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/9/2005 11:30:44 PM
Author: Mikey7

What do you consider to be a quality Trapiche and have any of you seen a market for them?

The only trapiche considered gem (that I know of, of course) is emerald trapiche... so if anything can set a standard for gem material of the type, I gues the same standard as for emeralds would apply more or less harshly. But apply to what ? With virtually no other material to talk about, the quality issues is a bit philosophical.

The largest corundum trapische anywhere close to the looks of emerald trap gems was about 3mm across ! Larger material is as you describe your find... not much of a gem. These make nice curiosities - the finer rock-sho kind. If the crystal shapes are recognizable on the specimen, it would make it on the top shelf of a mineral collection.

If there were gem corundum trapische out there, ''bet Mogok would know. He sais there are virtually none and I believe. I am not old enough to have seen or have heard of one ...

 

[mogok]

You have got a trapiche ruby from Mogok?
Well that''s a very very lucky find... Trapiche rubies are common in Mong Shu (also Burma but in Shan state) but they are extremely rare in Mogok. Now the think I worry is the place you got the stone from: Was it Mae Sai? (I just got an idea ready an other of your posts...) If so I doubt seriously that your stone is coming from Mogok...
Mae Sai market is full of stone mainly from Shan state and Mong shu in particlular ( for the Burmese stones of course as there is many stones from China, Thailand, Africa and many synthetics and imitations) and I would be surprise to see a Mogok trapiche there! Probably the seller was trying to help the sale using the name of Mogok for the stone origin... This is typical in Burmese markets especially when the seller does not know you well: All the stones are from Mogok as with Mogok name it is more easy to sell.

Now regarding to trapiche stones, some trapiche corundum can be found in Mogok or in Thabeikyin (which is known to produce rubies, sapphires, spinels and fluorite) but most of the Mogok area trapiche are sapphires.
You can see some samples:

Believed to be from Mogok:

Now from Thabeikyin:

From still and unknown origin in Burma:

As you see they are not really gem quality but some of these stones are quite nice looking. Fine trapiche sapphires are whatever very rare stones and mainly collector items.

Hoping to have helped,

 

[Mikey7]

You are right abut my mistakeingly calling the stone a ruby. As for location I bought it in Mae Sod not Mae Sai. Still this doesn''t mean its Mogok. The color is too dark to even compare with the pictures you showed me. I bought it just because it seemed unusual to me and the star was such a stark contrast with the dark background. Thanks for showing me what nice ones can look like

 

[mogok]

Hello Mickey7,

Well then I understand better: In Mae Sot you find mostly stones from Mogok and jadeite from the Kachin state along with many african, synthetics and imitation gems that are present on all touristic gem markets in Thailand.
Last month I went to Mae Sot on one of my week end trips and i was also shown some low grade trapiche sapphire from the Thabeikyin area in the west of Mogok stone tract.
So if I understand well your stone is also a trapiche sapphire not a ruby, isn''t it?
Anyway I understand the reason why you bought this stone... I do the same: If I find something unusual or suspicious I try to buy it in order to study it at AIGS laboratory.
This is the best way to learn and cross the informations!

All the best,