Transgender bathroom rights are going down the toilet

[Missy]

Ha I'm sorry I can't resist and have to respond. Kenny I'm a poor pupil.

Jenn, you and momhappy are just not the poster children for sensitivity despite what you keep saying. I'm sorry and I am truly not trying to be argumentative but I just don't believe or see that. Based on both of your posts throughout the time you have been posting on PS. I still remember when momhappy said to Elliot to leave a starving wet kitten who needed shelter and help outside in the rain and cold. Sorry I don't want to pick on anyone but this is how I see it. Right or wrong. I am seeing what I am being shown. By both of you.

I don't recall telling anyone to leave a starving kitten in the rain....and I didn't know you felt that way about me, missy. I'm sorry that you do. I guess I'm done here and maybe I should consider taking a break. Have a nice day everyone.

momhappy, I'm sorry I upset you. I don't think you're a bad person and I'm sorry I made you feel that way. Please don't leave on my account OK? Extending hugs to you and hope you'll accept my heartfelt apology for making you feel badly.

 

[momhappy]

Ha I'm sorry I can't resist and have to respond. Kenny I'm a poor pupil.

Jenn, you and momhappy are just not the poster children for sensitivity despite what you keep saying. I'm sorry and I am truly not trying to be argumentative but I just don't believe or see that. Based on both of your posts throughout the time you have been posting on PS. I still remember when momhappy said to Elliot to leave a starving wet kitten who needed shelter and help outside in the rain and cold. Sorry I don't want to pick on anyone but this is how I see it. Right or wrong. I am seeing what I am being shown. By both of you.

I don't recall telling anyone to leave a starving kitten in the rain....and I didn't know you felt that way about me, missy. I'm sorry that you do. I guess I'm done here and maybe I should consider taking a break. Have a nice day everyone.

momhappy, I'm sorry I upset you. I don't think you're a bad person and I'm sorry I made you feel that way. Please don't leave on my account OK? Extending hugs to you and hope you'll accept my heartfelt apology for making you feel badly.

Your post bothered me, so I went back through to check what was posted about Oreo. I don't recall the entire conversation, but apparently, there was some talk about lost cats/keeping lost cats. Here is what I said in that thread:

"And for what it's worth, I posted a follow-up on the first page to explain my thoughts/opinions. I was reading a handful of posts that recommended just keeping the cat, but what I didn't realize is that those members were quoting a post about having the cat checked for a microchip first and foremost and THEN adopting him. I posted that the misunderstanding was my fault, so I accept responsibility for the "negativity" - if that's what you were referring to, madelise. I have never turned away an animal in need of help - we've had everything from birds, to salamanders, to lost dogs... I was simply trying to advocate the importance of finding the rightful owner (if there is one) and after reading through each post in detail, I realized that everyone else was too."

Again, I'm sorry that you feel that I am an insensitive person, missy, but I just wanted to clarify what was said before others go on thinking that I advocate leaving starving animals in the rain after you posted it about me here in this thread.
Enjoy your weekend.

 

[OreoRosies86]

"Contact your local animal shelter (or animal control). I typically wouldn't let a stray cat into my house - if the weather was bad, I would maybe let it into the garage while I contacted my animal shelter.

...I'm just saying that if I didn't know a particular cat, I would err on the side of caution.
Like I said, if the weather was bad, I might try to help it out, but I would certain be calling my local animal shelter ASAP."

Just in case anyone is confused about context.

But as much as I'd love to hog this thread and make it about my cat (who came to me in a sleet storm and never left), this thread is about a very important issue. And I believe my feelings are well documented here. We all leave impressions in our online tone, and I know that things people say in threads can stick with me in others. And I felt sad reading some of that Oreo thread because it was 3 years ago and some of the people who were so amazingly supportive and emailing me advice off PS can't stand me now because of my political and general world views.

Everyone should have the right to go to their gender's bathroom. It really is that simple.

 

[Missy]

"Contact your local animal shelter (or animal control). I typically wouldn't let a stray cat into my house - if the weather was bad, I would maybe let it into the garage while I contacted my animal shelter.

...I'm just saying that if I didn't know a particular cat, I would err on the side of caution.
Like I said, if the weather was bad, I might try to help it out, but I would certain be calling my local animal shelter ASAP."

Just in case anyone is confused about context.

But as much as I'd love to hog this thread and make it about my cat (who came to me in a sleet storm and never left), this thread is about a very important issue. And I believe my feelings are well documented here. We all leave impressions in our online tone, and I know that things people say in threads can stick with me in others. And I felt sad reading some of that Oreo thread because it was 3 years ago and some of the people who were so amazingly supportive and emailing me advice off PS can't stand me now because of my political and general world views.

Everyone should have the right to go to their gender's bathroom. It really is that simple.

Yes I agree with this completely. We can make it complex or we can keep it simple. People will get used to it and adjust and it would work out fine. Except as with all things if it can be made difficult it will be. And as with women's rights it just seems there are people who cannot live and let live and need to be in others business. What a much better world this would be if we could really just be kinder, more caring and live and let live and not try to control other people.

And Elliot, I am sorry there are people who have turned against you because of your political views. That sucks. But speaks way more about them than you. Of course I know you know that and it doesn't make it less painful.

Oreo is such a lovebug! Love that photo.


And momhappy, I have no wish to get into a disagreement with you but suffice to say I know what you said and what you meant and yes you did post again in that thread to try clarifying but I still know what you meant. I am sorry I made you feel badly and what I think of you doesn't matter but I did want to clarify I don't think you are a bad person. But you are not the most sensitive empathetic person especially when it comes to people who are different than you or to animals in general. You can disagree and it is fine and I will agree to disagree with you.

 

[Kbell]

I will never truly understand the emotions one of transgender goes through because I am not in their shoes.

I will however say - Trumps wanting to leave it to the states is a typical conservative Republican way. LESS big government
control. LESS big government interference. This is nothing new. This is nothing Trump caused or is Trump's fault. In most, not all cases, I am all for LESS federal government interference in my life. Many policies/laws/etc should be more localized.

I don't agree that what's on your birth certificate is the absolute essence of who you are.
For example: If you are PHYSICALLY a woman, regardless of how you got that way, how can anyone make you use the men's room? How would anyone even know that you used to be male for that matter? And who's business is that anyway?

 

[bunnycat]

"Contact your local animal shelter (or animal control). I typically wouldn't let a stray cat into my house - if the weather was bad, I would maybe let it into the garage while I contacted my animal shelter.

...I'm just saying that if I didn't know a particular cat, I would err on the side of caution.
Like I said, if the weather was bad, I might try to help it out, but I would certain be calling my local animal shelter ASAP."

Just in case anyone is confused about context.

But as much as I'd love to hog this thread and make it about my cat (who came to me in a sleet storm and never left), this thread is about a very important issue. And I believe my feelings are well documented here. We all leave impressions in our online tone, and I know that things people say in threads can stick with me in others. And I felt sad reading some of that Oreo thread because it was 3 years ago and some of the people who were so amazingly supportive and emailing me advice off PS can't stand me now because of my political and general world views.

Everyone should have the right to go to their gender's bathroom. It really is that simple.

I think part of the problem is it is not simple at all, even from a strictly chromosomal standpoint and leaving out the psychological "I believe I am male/female" part. There are way more variations in just chromosome manifestations than 2. There are way more variations in physical presentation of male female biological parts than 2. So even categorizing male or female sex even in a medical sense is more difficult than the basic male or female most people learn in grade school wherein most people equate biological sex with gender.

 

[redwood66]

I will however say - Trumps wanting to leave it to the states is a typical conservative Republican way. LESS big government
control. LESS big government interference. This is nothing new. This is nothing Trump caused or is Trump's fault. In most, not all cases, I am all for LESS federal government interference in my life. Many policies/laws/etc should be more localized.

This is what my entire viewpoint on this, and many other things, is based on. For some people that translates to insensitivity and the many -isms people want to cast. That is a convenient way to shut down any opposition. It works. Until people are tired of it. Live and let live is a great motto and one I live by. I just wish other people would actually do it rather than just saying it when it convenient and suits their view.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I will never truly understand the emotions one of transgender goes through because I am not in their shoes.

I will however say - Trumps wanting to leave it to the states is a typical conservative Republican way. LESS big government
control. LESS big government interference. This is nothing new. This is nothing Trump caused or is Trump's fault. In most, not all cases, I am all for LESS federal government interference in my life. Many policies/laws/etc should be more localized.

I don't agree that what's on your birth certificate is the absolute essence of who you are.
For example: If you are PHYSICALLY a woman, regardless of how you got that way, how can anyone make you use the men's room? How would anyone even know that you used to be male for that matter? And who's business is that anyway?

Sadly the Trump administration is not so hands off when it comes to states who have voted to legalize marijuana. Conservatives are sooooooo hands off until they aren't.

 

[Missy]

Yay for my alma mater trying to figure out a solution for all regarding this issue.

http://www.columbia.edu/files/columbia/content/gender-neutral-restrooms-map.pdf

 

[redwood66]

I will never truly understand the emotions one of transgender goes through because I am not in their shoes.

I will however say - Trumps wanting to leave it to the states is a typical conservative Republican way. LESS big government
control. LESS big government interference. This is nothing new. This is nothing Trump caused or is Trump's fault. In most, not all cases, I am all for LESS federal government interference in my life. Many policies/laws/etc should be more localized.

I don't agree that what's on your birth certificate is the absolute essence of who you are.
For example: If you are PHYSICALLY a woman, regardless of how you got that way, how can anyone make you use the men's room? How would anyone even know that you used to be male for that matter? And who's business is that anyway?

Sadly the Trump administration is not so hands off when it comes to states who have voted to legalize marijuana. Conservatives are sooooooo hands off until they aren't.

Its still against federal law. These new laws have created a huge problem in my state with people in WA transporting TONS of marijuana into and across our state. Busts cost our taxpayers for prosecution, jail, etc.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Perhaps I should start a separate thread about that issue.

 

[Calliecake]

I will never truly understand the emotions one of transgender goes through because I am not in their shoes.

I will however say - Trumps wanting to leave it to the states is a typical conservative Republican way. LESS big government
control. LESS big government interference. This is nothing new. This is nothing Trump caused or is Trump's fault. In most, not all cases, I am all for LESS federal government interference in my life. Many policies/laws/etc should be more localized.

I don't agree that what's on your birth certificate is the absolute essence of who you are.
For example: If you are PHYSICALLY a woman, regardless of how you got that way, how can anyone make you use the men's room? How would anyone even know that you used to be male for that matter? And who's business is that anyway?

Sadly the Trump administration is not so hands off when it comes to states who have voted to legalize marijuana. Conservatives are sooooooo hands off until they aren't.

I read about this last night. Don't they have better things to do than worry about this!!!

 

[momhappy]

"Contact your local animal shelter (or animal control). I typically wouldn't let a stray cat into my house - if the weather was bad, I would maybe let it into the garage while I contacted my animal shelter.

...I'm just saying that if I didn't know a particular cat, I would err on the side of caution.
Like I said, if the weather was bad, I might try to help it out, but I would certain be calling my local animal shelter ASAP."

Just in case anyone is confused about context.

But as much as I'd love to hog this thread and make it about my cat (who came to me in a sleet storm and never left), this thread is about a very important issue. And I believe my feelings are well documented here. We all leave impressions in our online tone, and I know that things people say in threads can stick with me in others. And I felt sad reading some of that Oreo thread because it was 3 years ago and some of the people who were so amazingly supportive and emailing me advice off PS can't stand me now because of my political and general world views.

Everyone should have the right to go to their gender's bathroom. It really is that simple.

And like I said, I did not advocate "leaving a starving cat in the rain." Personally, I would not let a stray into my house because I already have pets in the home (for fear of fighting, disease, etc.). I just had this experience a few months ago. We had a stray dog, it was pouring rain, so I coaxed it into my garage, but did not let it in my home because I have pets in the house. I immediately called my local animal shelter and I posted pictures the lost dog on social media. I fed it, watered it, dried it with a towel, and made a dog bed for it. I found the owner and delivered it back home. If that makes me insensitive, then there's nothing more that I can say. If you and missy feel the I am an insensitive, uncaring person, then no more needs to be said and I'm done. Perhaps a break might be a good thing. I'm glad that Oreo has worked out for you.

 

[redwood66]

"Contact your local animal shelter (or animal control). I typically wouldn't let a stray cat into my house - if the weather was bad, I would maybe let it into the garage while I contacted my animal shelter.

...I'm just saying that if I didn't know a particular cat, I would err on the side of caution.
Like I said, if the weather was bad, I might try to help it out, but I would certain be calling my local animal shelter ASAP."

Just in case anyone is confused about context.

But as much as I'd love to hog this thread and make it about my cat (who came to me in a sleet storm and never left), this thread is about a very important issue. And I believe my feelings are well documented here. We all leave impressions in our online tone, and I know that things people say in threads can stick with me in others. And I felt sad reading some of that Oreo thread because it was 3 years ago and some of the people who were so amazingly supportive and emailing me advice off PS can't stand me now because of my political and general world views.

Everyone should have the right to go to their gender's bathroom. It really is that simple.

And like I said, I did not advocate "leaving a starving cat in the rain." Personally, I would not let a stray into my house because I already have pets in the home (for fear of fighting, disease, etc.). I just had this experience a few months ago. We had a stray dog, it was pouring rain, so I coaxed it into my garage, but did not let it in my home because I have pets in the house. I immediately called my local animal shelter and I posted pictures the lost dog on social media. I fed it, watered it, dried it with a towel, and made a dog bed for it. I found the owner and delivered it back home. If that makes me insensitive, then there's nothing more that I can say. If you and missy feel the I am an insensitive, uncaring person, then no more needs to be said and I'm done. Perhaps a break might be a good thing. I'm glad that Oreo has worked out for you.

I don't want you to leave. You are a very caring person. Do not let anyone else's intolerance take up space in your head. I can understand if you do need a break though.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I didn't call you insensitive, momhappy. That's not really a word I tend to use. I find you and other's manner of posting very brusque and its unsurprising that you all tend to find each other. Most people find others with a similar tone, myself included. If that observation is the catalyst for you needing a break so be it and I hope you come back soon. I have seen others here become completely unhinged at criticism to the point of hysteria so recognizing when one needs to step back is good.

I would be no more likely to leave a cat outside than I would tell a trans person they don't belong in my bathroom. That's just the way it is.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Jenn, you and momhappy are just not the poster children for sensitivity despite what you keep saying. I'm sorry and I am truly not trying to be argumentative but I just don't believe or see that. Based on both of your posts throughout the time you have been posting on PS. I still remember when momhappy said to Elliot to leave a starving wet kitten who needed shelter and help outside in the rain and cold. Sorry I don't want to pick on anyone but this is how I see it. Right or wrong. I am seeing what I am being shown. By both of you.

So you may form a judgment or opinion on "what you see ... right or wrong" about someone, but others may not? Isn't that the very behavior you are chastising others (us "non-poster children" as you put it) for about people who are transgender and/or have a gender identity issue?

I'm seeing things shown by you as well.

 

[Calliecake]

Missy statements made perfect sense. If you fail to understand that the subject of this thread is a basic human rights issue, Im not sure how anyone will be able to get you to see this. Not everyone in the world is exactly like you. That's not a bad thing. Not giving everyone the same basic human rights is a bad thing. A little compassion and empathy can go a long way. Missy has shown time and time again that she is an extremely compassionate and empathetic person. If Mom Happy wants to take a time out, that is up to her. I have never understood people needing to announce that on Pricescope.

 

[redwood66]

I didn't call you insensitive, momhappy. That's not really a word I tend to use. I find you and other's manner of posting very brusque and its unsurprising that you all tend to find each other. Most people find others with a similar tone, myself included. If that observation is the catalyst for you needing a break so be it and I hope you come back soon. I have seen others here become completely unhinged at criticism to the point of hysteria so recognizing when one needs to step back is good.

I do find it a bit amusing that you find her brusque but do not include yourself in that category. I am basing this on exchanges you and I have had.

 

[the_mother_thing]

And like I said, I did not advocate "leaving a starving cat in the rain." Personally, I would not let a stray into my house because I already have pets in the home (for fear of fighting, disease, etc.). I just had this experience a few months ago. We had a stray dog, it was pouring rain, so I coaxed it into my garage, but did not let it in my home because I have pets in the house. I immediately called my local animal shelter and I posted pictures the lost dog on social media. I fed it, watered it, dried it with a towel, and made a dog bed for it. I found the owner and delivered it back home. If that makes me insensitive, then there's nothing more that I can say. If you and missy feel the I am an insensitive, uncaring person, then no more needs to be said and I'm done. Perhaps a break might be a good thing. I'm glad that Oreo has worked out for you.

Don't go, MH. You are not being insensitive nor intolerant. Someone else's 'opinion' is their problem; not yours. (hugs)

I am in the same camp as you when I found and sheltered, fed, and cared for that cat just before Christmas, and worked diligently to find its owner and return him to his home. And housed in my home and at my own expense a family (strangers to me) whose home was without any utilities due to flooding during the hurricane last fall. If these types of actions are 'intolerant' or 'insensitive', I shudder to think what I would be called had I turned my back on both situations.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I didn't call you insensitive, momhappy. That's not really a word I tend to use. I find you and other's manner of posting very brusque and its unsurprising that you all tend to find each other. Most people find others with a similar tone, myself included. If that observation is the catalyst for you needing a break so be it and I hope you come back soon. I have seen others here become completely unhinged at criticism to the point of hysteria so recognizing when one needs to step back is good.

I do find it a bit amusing that you find her brusque but do not include yourself in that category. I am basing this on exchanges you and I have had.

Your brusque is different than mine. I'm not going to surround my beliefs in flowery prose, but I'm also not going to tell people facing their basic rights being taken away to toughen up and stop crying/mock them etc. As you put it before, you and I grate on each other and that's not going to change, so I make an effort to engage less with you.

And wow, I apologize OP. I'm being rude and threadjacking. Trying to justify why someone who doesn't know me doesn't like me is completely ridiculous considering the current climate. It's tone deaf and self indulgent. I'm done here.

 

[redwood66]

I didn't call you insensitive, momhappy. That's not really a word I tend to use. I find you and other's manner of posting very brusque and its unsurprising that you all tend to find each other. Most people find others with a similar tone, myself included. If that observation is the catalyst for you needing a break so be it and I hope you come back soon. I have seen others here become completely unhinged at criticism to the point of hysteria so recognizing when one needs to step back is good.

I do find it a bit amusing that you find her brusque but do not include yourself in that category. I am basing this on exchanges you and I have had.

Your brusque is different than mine. I'm not going to surround my beliefs in flowery prose, but I'm also not going to tell people facing their basic rights being taken away to toughen up and stop crying/mock them etc. As you put it before, you and I grate on each other and that's not going to change, so I make an effort to engage less with you.

And wow, I apologize OP. I'm being rude and threadjacking. Trying to justify why someone who doesn't know me doesn't like me is completely ridiculous considering the current climate. It's tone deaf and self indulgent. I'm done here.

No one in this thread did that so you are being disingenuous.

 

[ksinger]

Missy statements made perfect sense. If you fail to understand that the subject of this thread is a basic human rights issue, Im not sure how anyone will be able to get you to see this. Not everyone in the world is exactly like you. That's not a bad thing. Not giving everyone the same basic human rights is a bad thing. A little compassion and empathy can go a long way. Missy has shown time and time again that she is an extremely compassionate and empathetic person. If Mom Happy wants to take a time out, that is up to her. I have never understood people needing to announce that on Pricescope.

That used to be called pulling a "Goodbye cruel PriceScope!"

Drama.

 

[Calliecake]

Redwood, Happy Mom and Jenn, You post about how sensitive and caring you are yet feel it is fine to take away another person's basic human rights. Wow. I feel terrible that this will make things harder for transgender people and will possibly put them in harms way. I feel as though you are completely missing the point here.

 

[Matata]

I didn't call you insensitive, momhappy. That's not really a word I tend to use. I find you and other's manner of posting very brusque and its unsurprising that you all tend to find each other. Most people find others with a similar tone, myself included. If that observation is the catalyst for you needing a break so be it and I hope you come back soon. I have seen others here become completely unhinged at criticism to the point of hysteria so recognizing when one needs to step back is good.

I do find it a bit amusing that you find her brusque but do not include yourself in that category. I am basing this on exchanges you and I have had.

Your brusque is different than mine. I'm not going to surround my beliefs in flowery prose, but I'm also not going to tell people facing their basic rights being taken away to toughen up and stop crying/mock them etc. As you put it before, you and I grate on each other and that's not going to change, so I make an effort to engage less with you.

And wow, I apologize OP. I'm being rude and threadjacking. Trying to justify why someone who doesn't know me doesn't like me is completely ridiculous considering the current climate. It's tone deaf and self indulgent. I'm done here.

You and your pussy are welcome to threadjack my posts anytime. Some people overcompensate for the way they feel by being incredibly sycophantic or incredibly brusque in order to prove that they don't view others as superior. You don't fall into that camp.

 

[Calliecake]

Missy statements made perfect sense. If you fail to understand that the subject of this thread is a basic human rights issue, Im not sure how anyone will be able to get you to see this. Not everyone in the world is exactly like you. That's not a bad thing. Not giving everyone the same basic human rights is a bad thing. A little compassion and empathy can go a long way. Missy has shown time and time again that she is an extremely compassionate and empathetic person. If Mom Happy wants to take a time out, that is up to her. I have never understood people needing to announce that on Pricescope.

That used to be called pulling a "Goodbye cruel PriceScope!"

Drama.

EXACTLY!! Thank you Karen!

 

[OreoRosies86]

This pussy and her pussycat thank you Matata!!!

 

[redwood66]

I didn't call you insensitive, momhappy. That's not really a word I tend to use. I find you and other's manner of posting very brusque and its unsurprising that you all tend to find each other. Most people find others with a similar tone, myself included. If that observation is the catalyst for you needing a break so be it and I hope you come back soon. I have seen others here become completely unhinged at criticism to the point of hysteria so recognizing when one needs to step back is good.

I do find it a bit amusing that you find her brusque but do not include yourself in that category. I am basing this on exchanges you and I have had.

Your brusque is different than mine. I'm not going to surround my beliefs in flowery prose, but I'm also not going to tell people facing their basic rights being taken away to toughen up and stop crying/mock them etc. As you put it before, you and I grate on each other and that's not going to change, so I make an effort to engage less with you.

And wow, I apologize OP. I'm being rude and threadjacking. Trying to justify why someone who doesn't know me doesn't like me is completely ridiculous considering the current climate. It's tone deaf and self indulgent. I'm done here.

You and your pussy are welcome to threadjack my posts anytime. Some people overcompensate for the way they feel by being incredibly sycophantic or incredibly brusque in order to prove that they don't view others as superior. You don't fall into that camp.

I see tons of that here for sure. And no there is no one here superior to anyone else. No matter how much they think so.

 

[redwood66]

Redwood, Happy Mom and Jenn, You post about how sensitive and caring you are yet feel it is fine to take away another person's basic human rights. Wow. I feel terrible that this will make things harder for transgender people and will possibly put them in harms way. I feel as though you are completely missing the point here.

Please tell me how you came to this conclusion based on everything posted in this thread.

 

[lovedogs]

Missy statements made perfect sense. If you fail to understand that the subject of this thread is a basic human rights issue, Im not sure how anyone will be able to get you to see this. Not everyone in the world is exactly like you. That's not a bad thing. Not giving everyone the same basic human rights is a bad thing. A little compassion and empathy can go a long way. Missy has shown time and time again that she is an extremely compassionate and empathetic person. If Mom Happy wants to take a time out, that is up to her. I have never understood people needing to announce that on Pricescope.

I feel the same. I don't understand why wanting to give everyone basic human rights is even on the table for discussion. The entire idea that this is more complex than that boggles my mind. There is no comparison between someone who is transgender and not allowed to use the bathroom and someone else's fear/trauma/discomfort. While both things are unfortunate, this thread is about BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS. I fail to see complexity in that.

 

[redwood66]

And it boggles my mind that so many have come to the conclusion that anyone here is against basic human rights. PS is not an echo chamber for your ideas and viewpoint.