Transgender bathroom rights are going down the toilet

[the_mother_thing]

Transgender PEOPLE are at a much higher risk in this scenario.

Why can't the actual incidents that occur not follow Telephone's advice:

If something happens, let the authorities deal with it.

There are roughly 750,000 registered sex offenders in the U.S., and that's not counting those who aren't reported/caught/etc.

According to RAINN - On average, there are 321,500 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year in the United States.

That is only rape and assault, which does not comprise all sex crimes. And that doesn't include the numbers of same crimes toward children <12.

 

[ruby59]

It's kind of ridiculous that a registered sex offender cannot be or live within so many feet of a school, but you want to enable them to legally mosey on into a restroom with children at the YMCA, Outback Steakhouse, Target, etc.

How would pedophiles who are barred from being near children be affected by the gender marked or not marked on a restroom door? Young children are young regardless of sex. (BTW, the kindergarten bathroom in my daughter's classroom had one toilet and was unisex.I will always remember that I hoped I wouldn't be called a child molester by some little boy who needed me to zip up or unzip his zipper when I took him to the bathroom while I was doing cafeteria duty.)

AGBF

You are kidding right? Pedophiles have the highest number of recidivism because they cannot control themselves.

Do you realy think a piece of paper is going to matter to them in the least?

 

[ruby59]

You understand that transgender is NOT a rapist, or a pedophile, but a person who was born in one body but feels morally, spiritually, intellectually and honestly that they are of the opposite sex.. Why can't people stay out of women's bodies, transgendered people? ? don't we have enough to worry about with Muslim terrorists on every corner of America waiting to blow you and I up? whatever happened to: mind your own business? alt rights live in such fear very sad.

I don't personally fear TG people or associate them with pedophiles, perverts, etc; it's the actual pedophiles and perverts who will AND HAVE leveraged the expanded access to do wrong. It's kind of ridiculous that a registered sex offender cannot be or live within so many feet of a school, but you want to enable them to legally mosey on into a restroom with children at the YMCA, Outback Steakhouse, Target, etc.

Well, pedophiles and perverts already use the same restrooms as children- just, generally, boy children. And no pedo who puts a wig on is going to be excused from peeping at/exposing himself to/hurting a child just because he's wearing a wig. How do parents of male children- or female children- know the sexual proclivities of the person in the next stall? I have two young boys and the older one is able to go alone, but I'm always outside, and he knows that if anyone tries to touch him, he SCREAMS and RUNS. There's really not much else you can do other than check each person's criminal record upon entry, right?

The whole idea of risk of one taking the rights away from a group even more at risk is a slippery slope (and I apologize if this has already been said, this is a LONG thread!), because children are at a MUCH higher risk of being attacked by someone they know. So should men- uncles, cousins, brothers, family friends- be allowed to be alone with children? Priests?

Of course, there are always exceptions, but the idea that putting on a wig and molesting a child whose parent is literally standing outside being a good idea is kind of crazy, which is why children are much more at risk in a situation where they're comfortable, trusting, alone for long stretches. None of which a bathroom situation is. Transgender PEOPLE are at a much higher risk in this scenario.

And that is why when my son was with my husband he went into the men's room with him to make sure there was no one in there causing problems. He did this until my son turned 12 and could handle this person almost as well as my husband could.

When my son was with me, I know it was probably embarrassing to him, but I made myself known that I was standing outside the men's room door. It ticked my son off probably but I did what I could when my husband was not around and he was too old to come into the lady's room with me.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I don't need conservatives getting on TV trying to protect my daughter's from transgendered women in the bathroom. I raised my kids to know that they don't need to be "protected" from someone just because their gender doesn't match the body they were born into.

For *this* conservative, it's not about protecting kids from transgendered people; it's (in part) about protecting them from anyone who would do them harm; I don't believe TG individuals make up anywhere near a majority of sex offenders.

Why do you all feel it's acceptable to stereotype conservatives' positions on this (and other) issues, while chastising conservatives for allegedly stereotyping TG persons? Is it somehow inconceivable that some of us actually are not bigots/racists/mysoginists/etc.?

 

[asscherisme]

I don't need conservatives getting on TV trying to protect my daughter's from transgendered women in the bathroom. I raised my kids to know that they don't need to be "protected" from someone just because their gender doesn't match the body they were born into.

For *this* conservative, it's not about protecting kids from transgendered people; it's (in part) about protecting them from anyone who would do them harm; I don't believe TG individuals make up anywhere near a majority of sex offenders.

Why do you all feel it's acceptable to stereotype conservatives' positions on this (and other) issues, while chastising conservatives for allegedly stereotyping TG persons? Is it somehow inconceivable that some of us actually are not bigots/racists/mysoginists/etc.?

Not stereotyping all conservatives by any means, only the ones who are trying to "protect" me and my daughters from transgendered women in the bathroom.

I'm out, not looking for a fight. Just sharing my opinion that I have the same right as everyone else to share. Bye.

 

[ruby59]

I don't need conservatives getting on TV trying to protect my daughter's from transgendered women in the bathroom. I raised my kids to know that they don't need to be "protected" from someone just because their gender doesn't match the body they were born into.

For *this* conservative, it's not about protecting kids from transgendered people; it's (in part) about protecting them from anyone who would do them harm; I don't believe TG individuals make up anywhere near a majority of sex offenders.

Why do you all feel it's acceptable to stereotype conservatives' positions on this (and other) issues, while chastising conservatives for allegedly stereotyping TG persons? Is it somehow inconceivable that some of us actually are not bigots/racists/mysoginists/etc.?

Not stereotyping all conservatives by any means, only the ones who are trying to "protect" me and my daughters from transgendered women in the bathroom.

I'm out, not looking for a fight. Just sharing my opinion that I have the same right as everyone else to share. Bye.

Since our daughters use the same rest rooms as yousr, could it be we our protecting our own children.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I'm out, not looking for a fight. Just sharing my opinion that I have the same right as everyone else to share. Bye.

Who is fighting? I just asked a question.

 

[telephone89]

Jenn, please don't twist my words and use them in that way.

Trans people are a minority at great risk of violence and discrimination. They should be protected and people of all creeds should be held to a standard that doesn't promote violence or discrimination towards them. I feel like we're going in circles here. But the same protections that are afforded to sexual orientation, sex, age, ability, skin colour and religion should also be extended to gender identity. As I've said multiple times, this isn't about bathrooms. This is about protecting a vulnerable group of people. A small sidebar of that is which bathroom they choose to enter. And again, as I've said multiple times, they've already been doing this for years. When there weren't laws dictating you had to show your birth certificate to enter a bathroom, they were using the bathroom of their choice. It's only a big deal because the federal govt wants to try to protect these people and conservatives are going crazy about it. In fact, its only really an issue now that conservatives are making a big fuss. Conservatives don't want these people to be protected the same. They think they are an abomination (as read on the comments on the articles you posted). They were probably living in quiet ignorance for the last 30 years and didn't notice the trans people using the bathrooms of their choice. Now that they know about the HORRIBLE evil that is sharing their bathroom they are suddenly up in arms

 

[the_mother_thing]

Jenn, please don't twist my words and use them in that way.

Trans people are a minority at great risk of violence and discrimination. They should be protected and people of all creeds should be held to a standard that doesn't promote violence or discrimination towards them. I feel like we're going in circles here. But the same protections that are afforded to sexual orientation, sex, age, ability, skin colour and religion should also be extended to gender identity. As I've said multiple times, this isn't about bathrooms. This is about protecting a vulnerable group of people. A small sidebar of that is which bathroom they choose to enter. And again, as I've said multiple times, they've already been doing this for years. When there weren't laws dictating you had to show your birth certificate to enter a bathroom, they were using the bathroom of their choice. It's only a big deal because the federal govt wants to try to protect these people and conservatives are going crazy about it. In fact, its only really an issue now that conservatives are making a big fuss. Conservatives don't want these people to be protected the same. They think they are an abomination (as read on the comments on the articles you posted). They were probably living in quiet ignorance for the last 30 years and didn't notice the trans people using the bathrooms of their choice. Now that they know about the HORRIBLE evil that is sharing their bathroom they are suddenly up in arms

I didn't twist your words. I applied YOUR 'solution' to the other side of the debate. If it's not a 'standard' applicable to all, how is it fair to apply only to one group, unless you don't really care about equality? Should the rest of society just accept the increased risk of being harassed, assaulted, raped, etc.? The very things some argue are the reason for allowing 'open bathrooms'?

EQUAL RIGHTS means EQUAL; not 'special'/different/preferential. Transgender people's safety & rights matter. Children's safety & rights matter, too. My safety & rights matter, too. It is not fair nor 'equal' to negate the safety and rights of others simply to accommodate one segment of society. I'm not saying their feelings/needs aren't important or valid, but so are everyone else's.

 

[lovedogs]

Trans people are a minority at great risk of violence and discrimination. They should be protected and people of all creeds should be held to a standard that doesn't promote violence or discrimination towards them. I feel like we're going in circles here. But the same protections that are afforded to sexual orientation, sex, age, ability, skin colour and religion should also be extended to gender identity. As I've said multiple times, this isn't about bathrooms. This is about protecting a vulnerable group of people. A small sidebar of that is which bathroom they choose to enter. And again, as I've said multiple times, they've already been doing this for years. When there weren't laws dictating you had to show your birth certificate to enter a bathroom, they were using the bathroom of their choice. It's only a big deal because the federal govt wants to try to protect these people and conservatives are going crazy about it. In fact, its only really an issue now that conservatives are making a big fuss. Conservatives don't want these people to be protected the same. They think they are an abomination (as read on the comments on the articles you posted). They were probably living in quiet ignorance for the last 30 years and didn't notice the trans people using the bathrooms of their choice. Now that they know about the HORRIBLE evil that is sharing their bathroom they are suddenly up in arms

I think what frustrates me the most is seeing this nonsense about "protecting children" as an excuse to discriminate. Since when to pedophiles need to dress as women in order to molest people?? They don't.

 

[telephone89]

I didn't twist your words. I applied YOUR 'solution' to the other side of the debate. If it's not a 'standard' applicable to all, how is it fair to apply only to one group, unless you don't really care about equality? Should the rest of society just accept the increased risk of being harassed, assaulted, raped, etc.? The very things some argue are the reason for allowing 'open bathrooms'?

EQUAL RIGHTS means EQUAL; not 'special'/different/preferential. Transgender people's safety & rights matter. Children's safety & rights matter, too. My safety & rights matter, too. It is not fair nor 'equal' to negate the safety and rights of others simply to accommodate one segment of society. I'm not saying their feelings/needs aren't important or valid, but so are everyone else's.

But it wouldn't be the same situation, that's the point.

Why don't you feel like trans people deserve the same protections under the govt for gender identity?
People are being TARGETED because they are trans. You probably aren't being targeted for going about your day. They are.
3 trans women were murdered just last week in NOLA.

 

[telephone89]

I think what frustrates me the most is seeing this nonsense about "protecting children" as an excuse to discriminate. Since when to pedophiles need to dress as women in order to molest people?? They don't.

No kidding. I think theres a priest joke in there somewhere but I've not the energy.

 

[lovedogs]

I didn't twist your words. I applied YOUR 'solution' to the other side of the debate. If it's not a 'standard' applicable to all, how is it fair to apply only to one group, unless you don't really care about equality? Should the rest of society just accept the increased risk of being harassed, assaulted, raped, etc.? The very things some argue are the reason for allowing 'open bathrooms'?

EQUAL RIGHTS means EQUAL; not 'special'/different/preferential. Transgender people's safety & rights matter. Children's safety & rights matter, too. My safety & rights matter, too. It is not fair nor 'equal' to negate the safety and rights of others simply to accommodate one segment of society. I'm not saying their feelings/needs aren't important or valid, but so are everyone else's.

But it wouldn't be the same situation, that's the point.

Why don't you feel like trans people deserve the same protections under the govt for gender identity?
People are being TARGETED because they are trans. You probably aren't being targeted for going about your day. They are.
3 trans women were murdered just last week in NOLA.

But there ISN'T an increased risk. The idea that there is, is incorrect and based on fear mongering.

 

[OreoRosies86]

The pedophilia theories are nauseating.

 

[lovedogs]

The pedophilia theories are nauseating.

Right?!?! It's literally nonsense put forth by people who are afraid of trans individuals and want to discriminate freely without consequence. It's freaking BS.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I think what frustrates me the most is seeing this nonsense about "protecting children" as an excuse to discriminate. Since when to pedophiles need to dress as women in order to molest people?? They don't.

What frustrates (and baffles me really) is that you view others' desires to protect children as nonsense and 'an excuse to discriminate', especially as someone who works with children in a psychological setting (I believe you've stated).

 

[the_mother_thing]

But there ISN'T an increased risk. The idea that there is, is incorrect and based on fear mongering.

Really?

About 20 million out of 112 million women (18.0%) in the United States have been raped during their lifetime.

Kilpatrick, Dean G., Ph.D., Heidi S. Resnick, Ph.D., Kenneth J. Ruggiero, Ph.D., Lauren M. Conoscenti, M.A., and Jenna McCauley, M.S., “Drug-Facilitated, Incapacitated, and Forcible Rape: A National Study,” July 2007. (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/219181.pdf) (December 21, 2011)

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Criminal Victimization Survey, in 2012, there were 346,830 reported rapes or sexual assaults of persons 12 years or older.

Truman, J., L. Langton, and M. Planty, “Criminal Victimization 2012,” U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics, October 2013. (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf) (February 19, 2014)

62,939 cases of child sexual abuse were reported in 2012.

“Child Maltreatment 2012,” U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Administration on Children, Youth and Families, Children’s Bureau.

Approximately 1.8 million adolescents in the United States have been the victims of sexual assault.

Kilpatrick, D., R. Acierno, B. Saunders, H. Resnick, C. Best, and P. Schnurr, “National Survey of Adolescents,” Charleston, SC: Medical University of South Carolina, National Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center, 1998.

Yea, there is clearly no cause for concern.

 

[Calliecake]

The pedophilia theories are nauseating.

Right?!?! It's literally nonsense put forth by people who are afraid of trans individuals and want to discriminate freely without consequence. It's freaking BS.

+1000

 

[E B]

But there ISN'T an increased risk. The idea that there is, is incorrect and based on fear mongering.

Really?

Those are general sexual assault stats, not assaults perpetrated by men pretending to be women in public restrooms.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article70255967.html

It wasn't a problem before and these stupid laws are a solution LOOKING for one. It isn't a victimless solution, either, so if you're going to put one group at risk to 'save' another, you need to have stats proving why it's beneficial. There aren't-- of any significance.

 

[the_mother_thing]

But there ISN'T an increased risk. The idea that there is, is incorrect and based on fear mongering.

Really?

Those are general sexual assault stats, not assaults perpetrated by men pretending to be women in public restrooms.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article70255967.html

It wasn't a problem before and these stupid laws are a solution LOOKING for one. It isn't a victimless solution, either, so if you're going to put one group at risk to 'save' another, you need to have stats proving why it's beneficial. There aren't-- of any significance.

And not all 'crimes'/harassment that happens to TG people occurs in restrooms/locker rooms/dressing rooms. So when you consider that, is there REALLY such an increased risk IN THOSE SPACES to warrant the change and subsequent risk to others?

 

[telephone89]

Jenn, I'm not sure if you're being willfully obtuse or just arguing for the sake of it now. So I'm going to quote one of my previous posts, from this page.

Trans people are a minority at great risk of violence and discrimination. They should be protected and people of all creeds should be held to a standard that doesn't promote violence or discrimination towards them. I feel like we're going in circles here. But the same protections that are afforded to sexual orientation, sex, age, ability, skin colour and religion should also be extended to gender identity. As I've said multiple times, this isn't about bathrooms. This is about protecting a vulnerable group of people. A small sidebar of that is which bathroom they choose to enter. And again, as I've said multiple times, they've already been doing this for years. When there weren't laws dictating you had to show your birth certificate to enter a bathroom, they were using the bathroom of their choice. It's only a big deal because the federal govt wants to try to protect these people and conservatives are going crazy about it. In fact, its only really an issue now that conservatives are making a big fuss. Conservatives don't want these people to be protected the same. They think they are an abomination (as read on the comments on the articles you posted). They were probably living in quiet ignorance for the last 30 years and didn't notice the trans people using the bathrooms of their choice. Now that they know about the HORRIBLE evil that is sharing their bathroom they are suddenly up in arms

The ONLY thing this bill does is grant trans people the same protections as other vulnerable groups. This ONLY means that they cannot be discriminated against. WHY does that bother you so much? You are focusing on one teeny tiny part of the matter, and while I can appreciate your laser focus, you are missing the bigger picture.

Right now, you cannot be turned down for a job JUST because you are elderly. Right now, you cannot be turned down from a lease JUST because you are black. Why are you so against granting this same protection for trans people? That is the heart of this matter, not bathrooms.

 

[lovedogs]

Jenn, I'm not sure if you're being willfully obtuse or just arguing for the sake of it now. So I'm going to quote one of my previous posts, from this page.

Trans people are a minority at great risk of violence and discrimination. They should be protected and people of all creeds should be held to a standard that doesn't promote violence or discrimination towards them. I feel like we're going in circles here. But the same protections that are afforded to sexual orientation, sex, age, ability, skin colour and religion should also be extended to gender identity. As I've said multiple times, this isn't about bathrooms. This is about protecting a vulnerable group of people. A small sidebar of that is which bathroom they choose to enter. And again, as I've said multiple times, they've already been doing this for years. When there weren't laws dictating you had to show your birth certificate to enter a bathroom, they were using the bathroom of their choice. It's only a big deal because the federal govt wants to try to protect these people and conservatives are going crazy about it. In fact, its only really an issue now that conservatives are making a big fuss. Conservatives don't want these people to be protected the same. They think they are an abomination (as read on the comments on the articles you posted). They were probably living in quiet ignorance for the last 30 years and didn't notice the trans people using the bathrooms of their choice. Now that they know about the HORRIBLE evil that is sharing their bathroom they are suddenly up in arms

The ONLY thing this bill does is grant trans people the same protections as other vulnerable groups. This ONLY means that they cannot be discriminated against. WHY does that bother you so much? You are focusing on one teeny tiny part of the matter, and while I can appreciate your laser focus, you are missing the bigger picture.

Right now, you cannot be turned down for a job JUST because you are elderly. Right now, you cannot be turned down from a lease JUST because you are black. Why are you so against granting this same protection for trans people? That is the heart of this matter, not bathrooms.

I think the other important thing to remember is that there just ISNT an increased risk to anyone else. The arguments about rape/abuse are based on national statistics, meaning they have exactly NOTHING to do with this issue. Citing rates of abuse overall has no bearing on trans individuals using bathrooms, etc.

So not only is this about giving trans people the same rights as other protected groups, this has no evidence of hurting anyone.

 

[lovedogs]

But there ISN'T an increased risk. The idea that there is, is incorrect and based on fear mongering.

Really?

About 20 million out of 112 million women (18.0%) in the United States have been raped during their lifetime.

Kilpatrick, Dean G., Ph.D., Heidi S. Resnick, Ph.D., Kenneth J. Ruggiero, Ph.D., Lauren M. Conoscenti, M.A., and Jenna McCauley, M.S., “Drug-Facilitated, Incapacitated, and Forcible Rape: A National Study,” July 2007. (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/219181.pdf) (December 21, 2011)

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Criminal Victimization Survey, in 2012, there were 346,830 reported rapes or sexual assaults of persons 12 years or older.

Truman, J., L. Langton, and M. Planty, “Criminal Victimization 2012,” U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics, October 2013. (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf) (February 19, 2014)

62,939 cases of child sexual abuse were reported in 2012.

“Child Maltreatment 2012,” U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Administration on Children, Youth and Families, Children’s Bureau.

Approximately 1.8 million adolescents in the United States have been the victims of sexual assault.

Kilpatrick, D., R. Acierno, B. Saunders, H. Resnick, C. Best, and P. Schnurr, “National Survey of Adolescents,” Charleston, SC: Medical University of South Carolina, National Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center, 1998.

Yea, there is clearly no cause for concern.

You are citing national statistics. Please explain how this is relevant to the trans bathroom issue? There is zero evidence that the rate of rape/abuse will increase if this becomes federal law.