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Total confusion with these H&A stones

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chiefneil

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
174
Ok, I''m guessing that all these stones are wonderful and in person I probably won''t be able to tell one from the other. But I''d appreciate opinions - if they''re all equivalent quality then I''m inclined to go with the 2.06 carat. But then if there''s a noticeable difference between F and H then maybe I should go with the 1.8 carat? This is an upgrade for my wife''s ring, which is a D, so she''s probably going to be sensitive to color.

Anyway, I''ve listed them in the order that I''m leaning, which is simply biggest to smallest.

Stone 1
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 2.06
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Certificate: GIA
Depth: 60.8%
Table: 57%
Crown: 34.5
Pav: 40.8
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to medium, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 8.23*8.25*5.01
Price: $21,910

Stone 2
Shape: Round
Carat Weight: 1.966ct
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
AGS Cut Grade: Ideal
AGS Light Performance: Ideal
Optical Symmetry: Premium
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Fluorescence: Negligible
Culet: None
Lab Report: AGS
Width: 7.98mm
Length: 8.03mm
Depth: 5.01mm
Table Percentage: 54.30%
Depth Percentage: 62.80%
Crown: 34.83°
Pavilion: 40.87°
Price: $21,735


Stone 3 - I''m curious why this one seems relatively expensive?
Shape: Round
Carat Weight: 1.848ct
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
AGS Cut Grade: Ideal
AGS Light Performance: Ideal
Optical Symmetry: Superior
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Fluorescence: Medium
Culet: None
Lab Report: AGS
Width: 7.83mm
Length: 7.86mm
Depth: 4.87mm
Table Percentage: 55.36%
Depth Percentage: 62.09%
Crown: 34.72°
Pavilion: 40.66°
Price: $22,578

Stone 4 - Probably too small, but why is this one is so cheap?
Shape: Round
Carat Weight: 1.79ct
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
AGS Cut Grade: Ideal
est GIA Cut Grade: Excellent
AGS Light Performance: Ideal
Optical Symmetry: Superior
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Fluorescence: Medium
Culet: None
Lab Report: AGS
Width: 7.79mm
Length: 7.81mm
Depth: 4.84mm
Table Percentage: 55.31%
Depth Percentage: 62.01%
Crown: 34.17°
Pavilion: 41.01°
Price: $15,909
 

Petunia

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
61
Chiefneil

I can only comment on the last stone listed. I''ve seen it and it''s very very beautifu l


Helen
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Hi cheif,

The F would be more because it''s a higher clarity. Not sure why the last one is so much less, ask Tim or Jon about that.

They will all be nice. If you just want the biggest one, that would be the first one. The other 3 are basically the same size. Don''t go by carat weight, go by the diameter (width x length). The difference between the last 3 is negligable.

If you just want a really nice diamond, I would get the last one and save some money, provided you are satisfied with the reason it''s less expensive. The medium fluorescence might have a small bearing on that. Plus, Petunia has actually been there, and saw that one.
 

chiefneil

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
174
The dimension measurements confuse me a bit. I get the depth - that''s the top to bottom measurement I assume. The separate width and length measurements are what''s confusing. Which one is the total width when looking at the diamond from the top? Is one measurement from corner to corner while the other is from flat to flat?

How much of a difference is readily visible to the naked eye when holding two diamonds up side by side? .2mm? .5mm?

Thanks for the feedback too. I went ahead and put a hold on the 15k stone while we mull it over.

Width: 7.79mm
Length: 7.81mm
Depth: 4.84mm
 

kev_800

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Messages
122
Date: 3/7/2007 9:53:35 AM
Author: chiefneil
The dimension measurements confuse me a bit. I get the depth - that's the top to bottom measurement I assume. The separate width and length measurements are what's confusing. Which one is the total width when looking at the diamond from the top? Is one measurement from corner to corner while the other is from flat to flat?

How much of a difference is readily visible to the naked eye when holding two diamonds up side by side? .2mm? .5mm?

Thanks for the feedback too. I went ahead and put a hold on the 15k stone while we mull it over.

Width: 7.79mm
Length: 7.81mm
Depth: 4.84mm
Well my understanding is that even though its a round diamond, it isn't a perfect circle. The way a diamond is cut is not an easy process, and small variations will occur when the facets are made. The variation in that diamond is only .02mm, and since the human eye cannot evaluate .02mm out of a scale of 7.8mm, it will appear perfectly round to the eye, but under magnification or with a calipers is the only way you could probably tell.

As Ellen said, the diamond's diameter will clue you into how each of the diamonds will appear so that you can determine which one will be largest. Also be aware that an ideally cut diamond will usually appear larger than a poorly cut diamond even of a larger carat weight & diameter.

To answer your question about how much is a large enough difference when comparing two diamonds such that it would be noticeable.... thats a personal determination. Realize that once this diamond is set and being worn in a piece of jewelry, it won't be compared side by side with other diamonds .15mm larger... so in one sense this inquiry is purely academic. When I chose the diamond for my fiance's e-ring, I chose one that was 7.17mm rather than one that was 7.4mm. I decided to go with the 7.17mm diamond because I thought the size difference was negligible.. that is like .23mm. I certainly could see a small difference when my face was up in the diamonds and they were sitting side by side... but once i held my head back about 16 inches I couldn't tell any longer, and that is a more common viewing distance. I bought the 7.17mm diamond because I liked the fact that it was a more colorless diamond and that it fell into the center of the AGS000 cut grade determination, as well as in the GIA 'excellent' category.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Id go with 4 and keep the 5k in the bank if it was me.
Or get her a nice pendant with the difference.
 

Rock Candy

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
630
I am EXTREMELY color sensitive, so my choice would hands down be #3 - F color. Also, the color shows more in a larger diamond.
 

chiefneil

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
174
Date: 3/7/2007 6:49:22 AM
Author: Ellen
They will all be nice. If you just want the biggest one, that would be the first one. The other 3 are basically the same size. Don''t go by carat weight, go by the diameter (width x length). The difference between the last 3 is negligable.
I thought width x length = area? Isn''t width equivalent to diameter in this case - a measure from edge to edge across the widest part of the top of the stone?

If I''m understanding the measurements correctly, it looks like the 2.06 carat stone is only approx .4mm wider than the 1.79 carat stone? If that''s the case I have to agree with the comment that it would be very difficult to discern a .4mm difference between two set stones.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Date: 3/7/2007 10:40:36 PM
Author: chiefneil


I thought width x length = area? Isn''t width equivalent to diameter in this case - a measure from edge to edge across the widest part of the top of the stone?

If I''m understanding the measurements correctly, it looks like the 2.06 carat stone is only approx .4mm wider than the 1.79 carat stone? If that''s the case I have to agree with the comment that it would be very difficult to discern a .4mm difference between two set stones.
To get the diameter you measure all the way around the stone. You end up with two numbers (largest diameter x smallest diameter, or width x length which is commonly how it''s referred to), usually different unless cut extremely tight, then they can be the same. Those numbers give you the total diameter.

And yes, you do have it on the difference of the 2.06 vs. the other.
 

chiefneil

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
174
Date: 3/8/2007 7:12:52 AM
Author: Ellen
Date: 3/7/2007 10:40:36 PM

Author: chiefneil



I thought width x length = area? Isn''t width equivalent to diameter in this case - a measure from edge to edge across the widest part of the top of the stone?
To get the diameter you measure all the way around the stone. You end up with two numbers (largest diameter x smallest diameter, or width x length which is commonly how it''s referred to), usually different unless cut extremely tight, then they can be the same. Those numbers give you the total diameter.


And yes, you do have it on the difference of the 2.06 vs. the other.
Thanks for the explanation. This must be a specialized use of the word "diameter" when referring to diamonds? I would normally refer to the distance around the outside as the circumference, and the diameter as the distance from end to end through the middle.
 

kev_800

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Messages
122
Right.

2 * pi * r^2 = area

circumference of a circle = pi * r

the problem becomes that diamonds are not perfectly round. You''d need to measure in several areas to come up with an average first.
 

fabcrab

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
507
I'm sorry to correct but I believe circumference = 2 * pi * r
and area of the circle = pi * r^2
 

murphslaw1978

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
20
Stone 3 is an F color and a more perfect circle than that others, thus the higher price. Stone 1 is larger than stone 2, and it''s a GIA not AGS cert. GIA stones are more plentiful, thus the lower price.
 

kev_800

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Messages
122
Date: 3/8/2007 2:20:12 PM
Author: fabcrab
I''m sorry to correct but I believe circumference = 2 * pi * r
and area of the circle = pi * r^2
Doh! You''re right. I was just writing too quickly.
 

kcoursolle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
10,589
Date: 3/7/2007 12:04:13 PM
Author: strmrdr
Id go with 4 and keep the 5k in the bank if it was me.
Or get her a nice pendant with the difference.
ditto, but if you want the bigger one, I''d go for number one of the larger stones. Number three is a lot more expensive because you are paying for the F color.
 

chiefneil

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
174
Thanks again for all the advice and information. We decided to go with stone 4! I talked with Tim at GOG who was pretty helpful. He did opine that it''s a beautiful stone but since my wife''s been wearing her D color ring for years, she might notice the color of an H. But if that''s the case we can always take advantage of their lifetime upgrade policy.
 

Petunia

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
61
Chiefneil, Congrats on your selection. Don''t forget to come back and post some pictures
-- we like pictures you know
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Congrats, I think you got a great deal there, and I hope your wife likes it!
 
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