Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insurance

[smoothmoose]

OK. I know this has been asked before, but I'm looking for specifically here in Toronto. I just picked up my custom ER from Leif Benner today and it came with appraisal certificate from Jack Gulian at Gem Grade. The appraised value is $22k. That is more than double the price I paid for the stone and custom setting together. I also took my diamond to Martin Sheffield at US Certed Diamonds (I didn't buy the diamond from him) before it got set and he appraised the value of the loose stone at $15k, again almost double what I paid for the loose stone.

Now I need to buy insurance and I have two appraisals that are very much above the price I paid. Martin told me he adds a buffer to the appraisal price to account for appreciation of the diamond over time. But I'm thinking I'm going to be paying much too high on my insurance premium.

So what should I do? So I try to find a 3rd appraiser that will provide a lower value? Can I ask the insurance to provide lower level of coverage?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

How about providing the insurance company the receipts for the stone and setting and telling them you want to cover the amount the ring cost? I totally agree with you on not overpaying premiums. A 10% cushion might be acceptable, but when the valuation says double or even 30% more than retail, I think it is too much.

 

[smoothmoose]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

So I called Perfect Circle (jeweler mutual) and they told me that since my ring is over $5k, they must go by the appraised value only. They only take the receipt values if it's under $5k. Based on the reading these forums it seems Perfect Circle is highly recommended.

So it sounds like my only option is to get another appraisal and ask for a lower value?

What other insurance company options out there that are highly recommended. Obviously I can do my home insurance, but I think their coverage much worse than Perfect Circle.

 

[RedheadDoll]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

I am also in Toronto and called around for quotes for insuring our JbEG engagement ring. I ended up choosing Perfect Circle. They were half the price of any other option. I had an appraisal from David Atlas (who is in the States). Perfect Circle has asked me to get a Canadian appraisal as well. I am interested in you find any good appraisers here in Toronto.

 

[smoothmoose]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

I am also in Toronto and called around for quotes for insuring our JbEG engagement ring. I ended up choosing Perfect Circle. They were half the price of any other option. I had an appraisal from David Atlas (who is in the States). Perfect Circle has asked me to get a Canadian appraisal as well. I am interested in you find any good appraisers here in Toronto.

I think the appraisers I've used are fine in terms of providing an accurate assessment of the quality of the diamond and setting. The question is the appraisal value. I've read that Harold Weinstein is also good, but have also read their appraisal values are very high. Maybe the are used to appraising jewelry from Birks or Omni, so some large retail B&M. Even so, I don't think my ring is double the price at one of these retail stores.

So Perfect Circle is providing you coverage with a US appraisal? What would change if you got a Canadian appraisal?

 

[RedheadDoll]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

Yes, my ring is currently insured with Perfect Circle with the appraisal from the U.S.. However Perfect Circle asked for a Canadian appraisal as well. Basically, they said this is because of the difference in currency. I asked if they could just look up what the rate for the the Canadian dollar was on the date of the appraisal. They don't want to do that though. It's strange to me. I think it is probably just a decision based on the fact that Perfect Circle is an American company and they are not sure what to do in a case such as mine. I haven't got an appraisal her in Toronto yet. It's on my to-do list. I do have the full insured policy from Perfect Circle already though. It was substantially less expensive than going with my home insurance. As well, they let you replace the ring with the same vendor who you purchased the ring from.

 

[smoothmoose]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

Just an update. I did get my appraisal adjusted down about $6k. So that's a significant savings for me. I guess you just need to talk to the appraiser...

 

[Regular Guy]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

Just an update. I did get my appraisal adjusted down about $6k. So that's a significant savings for me. I guess you just need to talk to the appraiser...

We're having my wife's ring re-appraised in the next 10 days. Can you share about the nature of your conversation with the appraiser, i.e., what did you say, what did they say, and how did the conclusion (valuation decrease) come forward the way it did?

Ira Z.

 

[smoothmoose]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

We're having my wife's ring re-appraised in the next 10 days. Can you share about the nature of your conversation with the appraiser, i.e., what did you say, what did they say, and how did the conclusion (valuation decrease) come forward the way it did?

Ira Z.

I worked everything through my jeweler (Leif Benner). He sent the original appraisal to Jack Gulian who I believe is the normal appraiser Leif works with. When I gave Leif my feedback the appraisal was too high (I didn't buy the diamond from him, just the custom setting), he went back to Jack Gulian and Jack made the adjustment.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

Another option is to talk to Perfect Circle about insuring for lower than the appraised value. Since they let you find your replacement yourself, and then pay you or the jeweler directly, I don't see why they would object to a lower insured value. I do not mean asking for a large deductibe, which would be taken off the payout no matter what you replaced the stone for, but rather a cap on what they will payout.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

For insurance purposes, I always tell them that I want an insurance apprisal with realistic retail value. They usually know what to do what that.

Appraisal Companies

http://www.canadianjewellers.com/appraisers/Toronto

Try the following which are 1/3 to 1/2 of the price.
GS Laboratories – Toronto
27 Queen St. East, Suite 406
Phone: (416) 868-6656
Email: [email protected]

OR

http://www.accreditedappraisers.com/

 

[smoothmoose]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

Another option is to talk to Perfect Circle about insuring for lower than the appraised value. Since they let you find your replacement yourself, and then pay you or the jeweler directly, I don't see why they would object to a lower insured value. I do not mean asking for a large deductibe, which would be taken off the payout no matter what you replaced the stone for, but rather a cap on what they will payout.

I asked Perfect Circle about that already and they said they have to go by the appraised value and can't insure on a lower stated value. They also can only insure on the receipt value if the jewelry is $5000 or less. So basically with Perfect Circle you have to go by the appraised value.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Toronto Appraiser - reasonable appraisal value for insur

Appraisals for insurance purposes are generally estimating the retail price locally for comparable goods as of the date of the appraisal. The purpose is to provide sufficient funding to exact the replacement at some unknown date in the future. Prices change. That’s one of the main reasons that replacement values are routinely higher than cost. The next has to do with the cost of custom making mountings using local labor. It’s fairly common for the original setting to be made in a production factory that works efficiently but the replacement isn’t available from that factory and is going to be handmade one at a time. That costs more. These are also reasons for liking local appraisers by the way. If you think they’ve made an error, talk to them about it. You’ve got one ‘comp’ already. Your own transaction. You bought it recently, locally and in an arms length transaction. That’s a good place to start. Find another one or two and then show him/her what you’ve learned. You probably already have it from your research to buy in the first place.

Valuing on appraisals is a tricky problem. People want/expect high prices on appraisals. The jeweler almost always makes some sort of representation that they were a bargain and customers are routinely SHOCKED to learn that the got what they paid for and that they paid a reasonable price for it. On the other side, they’re very rarely upset that the value assigned is too high. Mind you, they should be, but fewer than 1 in 10 customers are concerned about this issue. This tends to drive value conclusions up.