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Torn between 2 diamonds

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md18

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
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9
Hi all,

I''ve been following Pricescope forums for months now and must thank you all for such informative discussions and knowledge sharing about diamonds. The time has finally come to purchase a diamond for our e-ring and I am torn between 2 diamonds. Any help (preferably asap) would be much appreciated. The diamonds do not vary in price much, only $200. The specifications are as follows;

Diamond 1:
Measurement: 6.50 - 6.55 X 3.98
Carat weight: 1.03ct
Color: E
Clarity: VVS2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluroescence: None
Culet: None
Comment: None
Inclusions: 1 cloud, needles & pinpoint NOT: cloud, needle & 1 pinpoint is on the left hand side, almost at the centre of the diamond.
Table: 56%
Total Depth %: 61.0%
Crown Height %: 15%
Crown angle (degrees): 34.5
Pavillion height %: 43%
Pavillion angle (degrees): 40.8
Girdle: Thin to Medium faceted (3.0%)



Diamond 2:
Measurement: 6.57 - 6.58 X 3.89
Carat weight: 1.02ct
Color: E
Clarity: VVS2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluroescence: None
Culet: None
Inclusions: Pinpoint NOTE: 1 pinpoint at centre of diamond
Comment: Additional pinpoints not shown
Table: 61%
Total depth %: 59.2%
Crown Height %: 13%
Crown angle (degrees): 33.5
Pavillion height %: 43.0%
Pavillion angle (degrees): 40.8
Girdle: Thin to Medium faceted (3.0%)


I''m in favor of Diamond 2 as it does not have a cloud. I have had a bad experience with E VVS1 0.75ct with clouds, it appeared milky/hazy hence I''m scared to buy Diamond 1 over Diamond 2. However, Diamond 1 is ideal proportions which will yield lots of brilliance & light. I''m really confused as to which one I should purchase and would much appreciated any help. The jeweller said Diamond 2 has a bigger table, therefore will appear bigger so that''s another advantage of Diamond 2 over 1, but again 61% table is not ideal. Oh, I''m so confused.

Your help is much appreciated. Thanks again for this forum
 
Hi md

When you say you had a bad experience with VVS1 clouds, was the diamond GIA or AGS graded? With a true VVS1 you should see nothing normally, there could have been another reason the stone looked cloudy; it could have been dirty or greasy or if it had strong fluorescence that might have caused the cloudy look.

Both diamonds have potential although I would favour the first due to the proportions, do you have any images such as Idealscope for these two please?
 
Hi Lorelei,

It was a GIA Dossier Report, with no plot, no fluorescence and 1 week after it was cleaned appeared milky again. It could be that the cloud was at the centre or either been really big hence it appears milky. The stone was set as an earing so not sure whether the diamond can actually get dirty/dusty after 1 weeks daily wear? Maybe its shampoo/hair chemicals that make it milky? I don''t understand either, it baffles me as it is VVS1 as well. My mum bought it before I discovered Pricescope so I''m trying not to make a costly mistake that she did.

Sorry I don''t have the Idealscope as these diamonds from an online jeweller. I spoke with a consultant and they told me Diamond 2 appears bigger becasue of the Table size being 61%, but I''m just as confused as I thought Ideal cut would make the diamond look bigger anyway. Also the cloud in Diamond 1 makes me nervous to look at because of my mums experience so therefore I''m leaning towards Diamond 2.

Ahhh I just can''t win :-( If I get the Ideal proportion diamond I must live with the cloud, if I find an ideal proportion diamond with no clouds or feathers I''ll just have to move a notch up to VVS1 and pay an extra $3,000 - 4,000.
 
These are all GIA certificates.
 
Date: 1/6/2010 7:04:11 AM
Author: md18
Hi Lorelei,

It was a GIA Dossier Report, with no plot, no fluorescence and 1 week after it was cleaned appeared milky again. It could be that the cloud was at the centre or either been really big hence it appears milky. The stone was set as an earing so not sure whether the diamond can actually get dirty/dusty after 1 weeks daily wear? Maybe its shampoo/hair chemicals that make it milky? I don''t understand either, it baffles me as it is VVS1 as well. My mum bought it before I discovered Pricescope so I''m trying not to make a costly mistake that she did.

Sorry I don''t have the Idealscope as these diamonds from an online jeweller. I spoke with a consultant and they told me Diamond 2 appears bigger becasue of the Table size being 61%, but I''m just as confused as I thought Ideal cut would make the diamond look bigger anyway. Also the cloud in Diamond 1 makes me nervous to look at because of my mums experience so therefore I''m leaning towards Diamond 2.

Ahhh I just can''t win :-( If I get the Ideal proportion diamond I must live with the cloud, if I find an ideal proportion diamond with no clouds or feathers I''ll just have to move a notch up to VVS1 and pay an extra $3,000 - 4,000.
Click to expand...
That could well be the reason, earring stones will get dirty and greasy even after a couple of hours wear! To me, cleaning earrings each time they are worn is crucial if they are to stay sparkling.
 
Ahhh, I guess I shouldn''t discount Diamond 1 with the cloud after all :-)

Thanks Lorelei.
 
Prefer #1, you will never see any inclusion with a GIA graded VVS2.
 
Thanks Stone-Cold. So the Cloud in # 1 shouldnt cause milky/hazy effect would you think? Also, would a cloud in EVVS2 make it less valuable/resaleable than if it were to "additional pinpoints not shown" written in the comments section?
 
Oops, also forgot to ask. Isn''t a table of 61% unusally big for a round 1.02ct. I''m only use to seeing diamonds with 56 - 59% tables so 60 and 61% seem to foreign to me
 
Date: 1/6/2010 9:05:46 AM
Author: md18
Oops, also forgot to ask. Isn't a table of 61% unusally big for a round 1.02ct. I'm only use to seeing diamonds with 56 - 59% tables so 60 and 61% seem to foreign to me
Click to expand...
With VVS2 clarity you won't see anything with the naked eye and it is very VERY unlikely that a cloud is going to have a negative effect, this can be an issue with SI clarities in some cases, not VS or VVS usually.

Table size is fine, a little larger than normal but as long as the angles are within good range it should be ok.
 
Thanks Lorelei.

Sorry, just me being so darn picky and cautious about the cloud in # 1 being close to the centre of the diamond.
I''m leaning towards # 1, its ideal proportions so it would make the 1ct appear larger than is, there is no need for a big table to cause this bigger illusion I suppose.
 
I think you are absolutely on the right track with diamond #1 - I think that''s so strange that a vendor told you a bigger table would make the diamond look bigger. I''ve never even heard of that, and as you and others here have correctly noted, if anything, it would seem to make the diamond look smaller because it takes it outside ideal cut proportions.

I''d definitely go with diamond #1.
 
It looks bigger because the diameter is bigger. The depth is smaller, coupled with a large table and shallow crown angle, a complementary pavilion angle, from geometry the stone will have a larger diameter, but not necessary due to a bigger table. For example, if the crown angle is large, for the same table size this will mean a larger crown height, more of the weight of the stone will go in there resulting in a smaller diameter stone.
 
Date: 1/6/2010 9:21:36 AM
Author: md18
Thanks Lorelei.

Sorry, just me being so darn picky and cautious about the cloud in # 1 being close to the centre of the diamond.
I'm leaning towards # 1, its ideal proportions so it would make the 1ct appear larger than is, there is no need for a big table to cause this bigger illusion I suppose.
Click to expand...
You are welcome! The diameter is spot on for a diamond of this size, as to table size making a diamond look larger, this is illusionary. Cut quality can influence appearant size and the spread ( diameter of the diamond) and this diamond's diameter or spread is right where it should be. Between the two stones you wouldn't actually notice any difference between them for size with those diameters.
 
Thank you all very much for your guidance.

Lorelei & Stone-Cold, these 2 diamonds are well proportioned relative to there pavillion & crown angles/depths so will return light well (diamond 1 much better than diamond 2 based on HCA) but I guess that table of 61% is something which I''m not use to seeing as most online companies stock between 56-59% tables. Its just psychological now that my mind set is 56%-59% table is normal and >60% is not normal.

I shall contact the vendor and see which of the 2 diamonds are still in stock and will just settle for the one that is still available.

Thanks again and will let you know of the outcome
 
Hey guys,

Thanks so much Lorelei, Stone-Cold11 and newenglandgemlab for your advice. I was able to purchase diamond # 1. It is perfect, very transparent and very sparkly. I was so fascinated seeing the perfect hearts & arrows when we picked it up. It really is a marketing gimick to have H&A inscribed on the diamond as the diamond we purchased was triple Ex but is a H&A despite not being inscribed with ''H&A''. Very interesting I thought. I''ve received heaps of compliments on the e-ring.

The Pricescope/Holloway analyser was quite accurate because the diamond proportions for # 1 were excellent/Ideal because it does return lots of light.

Sorry I can''t post a photo until I get it valuated for insurance purposes.

Thanks again
 
Congratulations!!!
 
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