Topaz vs. Citrine

[Independent Gal]

I''m talking to Jeff White about having two matching stones cut in memory of my identical twin sons who passed away. I think for me, that is a good way to cherish their memory and feel them near me, without being morbid or upsetting to others. I''m thinking perhaps of setting them as a pendant so that the stones sit close to my heart. I thought about setting them in a row with a diamond in the middle or some such. But we''ll get to that once the stones are cut!

I gather that Topaz and Citrine are my sons'' birthstones, and I wondered what reasons there might be to prefer one over the other. I''m a little confused about treatment of such stones. Are the blue topaz natural? Which variety is most precious? Is citrine, as a variety of quartz, too ''common'' to be ''precious enough'' for such an important and meaningful project?

Thoughts? Ideas? Advice?

 

[T L]

Date: 11/14/2008 3:43:28 PM
Author:Independent Gal
I''m talking to Jeff White about having two matching stones cut in memory of my identical twin sons who passed away. I think for me, that is a good way to cherish their memory and feel them near me, without being morbid or upsetting to others. I''m thinking perhaps of setting them as a pendant so that the stones sit close to my heart. I thought about setting them in a row with a diamond in the middle or some such. But we''ll get to that once the stones are cut!

I gather that Topaz and Citrine are my sons'' birthstones, and I wondered what reasons there might be to prefer one over the other. I''m a little confused about treatment of such stones. Are the blue topaz natural? Which variety is most precious? Is citrine, as a variety of quartz, too ''common'' to be ''precious enough'' for such an important and meaningful project?

Thoughts? Ideas? Advice?

I''m sorry for your loss of your twin.

99% of blue topaz, while it is natural (meaning it comes mined from the earth) gets it''s color from irradiation and is a very inexpensive and plentiful stone. Citrine, while it is common, is typically natural and sometimes heated. There is also synthetic citrine out there, but Jeff wouldn''t sell that. Both stones are very inexpensive. Some fine Madera citrines cost a bit more, but it''s not typically a valuable stone. The most valuable stone out of the quartz family is deep "siberian" colored amethyst, which can run in the finest qualities around $100/ct. Even the finest quartz stones are very affordable.

If you''re buying a blue topaz or citrine from Jeff, you''re probably paying more for the cutting than the actual fact that it''s a citrine or blue topaz.

 

[LD]

What a wonderful idea. I did a very similar thing and have worn the piece I designed every day.

I am not an expert by any means and my knowledge is fairly limited but here''s a few bits that may help.

Do I take it that the Zodiac sign we''re talking about is Sagittarius? The reason I ask is that you will find a number of charts that give modern birthstones, planetary stones, birthstones etc. and you may want to have a look at that as it does give other options (although not many) if you''re not convinced about using Quartz. Here''s a link but I''m sure there''ll be tons of others if you do a quick Google search!

http://www.gems4friends.com/birthstones.html

Ok, in terms of Citrine, here''s an interesting article that tells you all about it:

http://www.gemstone.org/gem-by-gem/english/citrine.html

The same for Topaz:

http://www.gemstone.org/gem-by-gem/english/topaz.html

Citrine can be heated or irradiated. Most are heated. The colours vary from a lemon through to a honey, sherry and darker brown colour. Citrine has a hardness of 7 on the MOHS scale so wouldn''t be a good idea to wear as an everyday ring but as a pendant it should be fine.

Natural Topaz (i.e. no treatment) is normally a white or yellow colour but may not be easy to acquire. However, treated Topaz is readily available. Topaz can also be coated or irradiated to produce many many different colours. There are different types of coating and some can scratch off exposing the transparent material beneath. If you''re dealing with Jeff White then I would think that he''s sourced (or can source) natural Topaz so this shouldn''t be a worry. Although blue topaz does occur naturally, it''s fairly limited and most on the market is irradiated. However, again I''m sure that Jeff can tell you far more than I. It is slightly hardier at 8 on the MOHS scale. So a little more durable.

I think setting your gemstones between a diamond would be a wonderful, elegant and a fabulous reminder of your precious sons. Good luck in your quest to find the perfect gemstones.

 

[Pandora II]

Hi Indy, I would be tempted to look at the topaz family - although I''m not a fan of the blue topaz as I''m not keen on treated stones.

However, Imperial Topaz is GORGEOUS - check out these beauties at Palagems....

Here''s a picture of an amazing example - although I''m personally more partial to the more golden hued stones.

I think it''s a lovely idea and I hope you end up with a piece you can treasure forever. Hope you''re doing okay - big hug from me.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Can''t speak to the difference, but I really love that variety that Pandora linked! It could be nice to have one of the rarer varieties or untreated varieties to make the project more "precious", so to speak.

I also wanted to link babyblues recent pendant project from WF in case you hadn''t seen it: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-wf-garnet-halo-pendant-is-done.97794/ The neck shots are gorgeous and are on page 2 or 3. I just thought the size and design was so lovely and might offer some inspiration in case you hadn''t settled on a design.

 

[stryeyes102]

Those are my birthstones, so heres my thoughts-

There are natural blue topaz stones out there, although they are quite light in color..The darker blues are stunning in their own right too. It just depends on if you care that it is a treated stone? For me, I know they''re treated but love them anyways. If you do want a blue stone go for more of a "sky" or a "swiss blue" they wont be quite as nuked looking as the darker stones. I am sure Jeff could make them look absolutely stunning!


If you wanted something different from the usual Citine, you could always go for a deeper colored citrine such as an "ox blood citrine" which is more orange/red. These would have more of a special look to them then the normal citrine yellow.


Good luck with your project, im sure it will work out just as it is meant to.

 

[HollyS]

I think this is a really lovely idea. And while I love a honey color citrine, I think for this purpose I would choose natural blue topaz or the irradiated -- because they were boys, of course.

Whatever idea you come up with is going to be a wonderful reminder of those precious little guys, and a great help in the healing process, too. God bless you.

 

[Gailey]

My condolences on losing your precious boys Independant Gal. I think your idea is lovely and I''m sure whichever stones you choose, Jeff will cut them beautifully for you.

I don''t know if you have decided on shapes for the stones or style for the pendant, but if you go to the Jewellery Forum here on PS and look at the Royal Jewels thread, you will come across a poster by the name of Lady Amethyst. Her Avatar is an old fashioned English ring that I think is of two pears combined to form a heart. It has a crown on top, which I''m sure you could leave out if you didn''t like it. Also in the thread you will see another ring similar to Lady Amethyst''s avatar that belonged to Earl Spencer''s first wife - Victoria Lockwood.

Two pears sitting side by side in the shape of a heart pendant would make a beautiful tribute I think. Just an idea.....

I''ll see if I can post a picture, but I''ve been having trouble with pictures just lately, the mods are working on it for me.

 

[Gailey]

This is Lady Amethyst''s avatar and in actual fact I believe this may well be the Spencer ring

 

[coatimundi_org]

Indy, I''m so sorry for your loss.

I second the notion of looking for Imperial topaz. It''s rare, beautiful, and would be a lovely stone to commemorate your twins.

(Hugs to you)

 

[portia]

I''m so very sorry for your loss. I think that''s a beautiful way to keep them close to your heart.

The Imperial Topaz that Pandora posted is really pretty. Such a rich, vibrant color. I think it would be lovely to use the blue topaz to represent your sons, especially the darker blue. I guess it depends on whether or not you would like to use treated stones.

Do you know how you would like to set them? I like the idea of setting the stones like LadyAmy''s ring as Gailey mentioned. I''ve had the following photo for a while for a ring setting idea (not sure where I found it). Just another idea.

 

[chrono]

I'm so sorry about loss of your twins, IG. My heart dropped when I read it. I agree with the others that Imperial topaz would be a wonderful way to remember them - they aren't as common and the peachy colour is very beautiful. I like the idea of setting them next to each other, just the way they spent their short but very much loved lives together. Citrine is just too soft and will not hold up as well as a topaz.

 

[stryeyes102]

Could someone explain something for me?

I am still learning about stones but as far as I''ve read, aren''t most imperial topaz''s treated as well? Ive heard that you have to be careful because some times the color will scratch off.

Im just a little confused: Is this in "fake" imperials? Or did I read some bad information?

*Sorry for threadjacking IG*

 

[chrono]

No, not imperials. Mystic topaz is coated, so the coating can be scratched off.

 

[stryeyes102]

I read it here so I was quite confused, I think it was even from one of the vendors posts.

Thank you for clearing that up for me Chrono

 

[ma re]

Honestly, I wouldn''t use those birthstone/zodiac lists as inspiration for something so meaningful, simply because there are so many variations of them that you''ll, sooner or later, find a new one and end up disappointed. Maybe using stones that would really represent them in some way would be better. It can be done by choosing those that match colors of their eyes, those that reflect their personalities (some gemstones look more "playful" and others more "sleepy" etc.), their favorite colors, those of their favorite toys or something else.

Don''t worry too much about durability of stones, cause for a pendant, just about anything will do.

Since a lot is said already about both stones you mentioned, I''ll just say that there are rare examples in just about every gemstone variety. Take citrine - it''s very common on the market, but if you rule out those poorly cut (lacking life and sparkle, showing windowing...), those with a poor color coverage, those that are too light or too dark, those with less than perfect clarity, those with iregular outlines...you end up with maybe 20% of the best stones. And if you find one that meets all the criteria and is a nice and gentle amber, honey, caramel orwhiskey color and larger than 5 carats, we''re talking something quite rare, but still affordable. You might also think this way; if you don''t have a large budget maybe it''s better to go for a top quality piece of the more common variety, instead of a low quality piece of something rare (for that 5 ct perfect citrine you can''t buy more than 0,5 ct of low-to-medium quality imperial topaz). I''m personally not a fan of blue topaz, simply because treatment brings too many perfect-looking stones on the market, and nature doesen''t make perfection.

Hope you end up with a nice piece that you''ll cherish forever.

 

[ma re]

More ideas:

1) a bicolor stone; AMETRINE or BICOLOR TOURMALINE for example. I think it might be nice since they were twins;

2) CHROME TOURMALINE. It has only one color, but due to something called diochrism it can exhibit two completely diferent shades of green in a single stone.

 

[Independent Gal]

Thanks for the ideas and thoughts everyone!

Pandora, those Imperial Topaz are lovely. I will raise the idea with Jeff.

Tourmaline-lover, ah, I meant untreated, rather than natural. I would definitely strongly prefer the gem to be untreated,

...so I''m leaning toward citrine for that reason, unless the imperial topaz idea goes somewhere... If I go that way I''ve asked Jeff to look for warm orangey madeira type citrine. The warmth matters too. I was thinking about what Holly pointed out, that blue is for boys! But then I''d want a blue that was warmer and more comforting. Most of the blue topaz I''ve seen seems a little... shrill for such tiny babies.

DD, Gailey, Portia, thanks for the design ideas! I definitely want them set close to each other, as they have always been (indeed they''re even buried together) which is partly why I like the idea of earrings less than the idea of a pendant. I''m going to let Jeff figure out the best shape, and then go from there.


Ma Re, I like the idea of using their birthstones. It feels right for some reason. And having had Jeff White cut stones for me in the past, I''m pretty sure that it would be tough to happen upon a more exquisite stone! I''m sure I''ll be happy with the outcome. I''m a huge fan of chrome tourmaline, by the way. That was the next gem I had wanted to purchase before this project arose.

 

[AprilBaby]

I think that is a beautiful idea to memorialize your precious sons! I am partial to citrine because it looks nice with my warm skintone. I like the idea of the blue topaz since they are boys. Whatever you choose it will probably be the most special piece you have ever owned. Good luck and can''t wait to see pictures!

 

[beaujolais]

I ADORE the setting Portia posted for your ring.

Big hugs to you Independant Gal. Really.

 

[flowerladytoo]

Independent Gal,
I was quietly lurking on your other thread and am so sorry about the loss of your precious sons. I think this pendant idea is great. Both Citrine and topaz are beautiful stones. I''m sure whichever one you decide on will make a precious remembrance of your little ones.

 

[Gailey]

IG, I am a little tentative about suggesting this to you and I truly hope that it does not upset you further, but I wanted to let you know about Hans Meevis. He is an extremely talented jeweller from St Maarten in the Dutch Antilles. He is extremely well respected both as a gem cutter and a jeweller on gemmologyonline: http://meevis.com/

Take a look at his work, pendants in particular and I am sure you will understand where I am going with this idea for you.

 

[ma re]

If you''d like blue topaz to be a warmer blue, think about setting it in rose gold - it should look more violetish blue, especially if you set it in a bezel or some similar setting (semi bezel, flush). Also, it would be best if you''d set citrine in yellow gold for the same reason (warmth of color). THIS picture (or THIS one) will give you the idea of how color of the setting can affect that of a stone.

 

[pocahontas]

Indy, I can''t offer anything meaningful to the decision making process ''cause I''m just learning about coloured gems myself, but I wanted to pop in to tell you that I love the idea of this very special project. What a wonderful way to remember your sons and keep them close to you always!