Too big a table for the price?

[bwmccarthy]

While I am thrilled to have recently gotten engaged unfortunately, however, I do not believe anyone could ever accuse my dear fiance of over researching before he bought. He went to a family friend with a basic knowledge of the 4C''s and purchased:

EGL
RB
1.01 ct
6.8 x 6.62 x 3.75
H VS2
Depth: 55.9%
Table: 69%
Crown: 8.6
symmetry: g
polish: g

I am new to this subject area as well but through the help of this site and my own research have learned enough to know that the depth and table size leave much to be desired and that GIA is definitely preferable to EGL. My question is advice on how much he overpaid. The jewelry store (believe it or not) appraised at $5250 and sold I supposed at their "friend" discount for $4400. I have no problem addressing the depth/table issue with the jeweler but I would like to find out first if I have two legs to stand on. If, as I suspect, for that price my fiance should have been able to purchase a same size stone with a smaller table and more depth.

I appreciate any comments or insight you all can offer.
Thanks

Bridget

 

[Brian Knox]

Hi,

I am afraid the short answer is , yes.

The stone is likely to have a fisheye effect and be rather glassy looking compared to other diamonds.

Do they have a return policy or tradein policy that is "customer friendly" ?

 

[moremoremore]

oh dear. what shape stone are we even talking?

 

[moremoremore]

Oops. RB. Double oh dear. Can you return it?

 

[bwmccarthy]

Well that is unfortunately the next step. The store does not have a huge selection of diamonds (although they have "diamond broker" in their name ???) I don't know the return policy off hand, it has been about 28 days and my fiance and the store are out of state. So I would like to go back this weekend to have it explained why he was sold this particular stone.
If it does fall within the return policy, is this something that happens fairly regularly that people return pieces? I hate to damage his family's relationship with the store as I believe his mother/grandmother shop their fairly regularly.

Thanks,
B

 

[Nicrez]

Bwmmcarthy, welcome to Price Scope! Sorry to hear about your issue, but congrats on the engagement!

Agreed with Brian. This is quite above the "ideal" parameters for such a stone to cost $4400...

Do a search on PriceScope and you will find MANY stones like it.

Here's one that has much more "ideal" measurements:
1.01 GIA H, VS2 D=60.3, T=57 for $5260.67

Perhaps if you lost your stone, for $10 more, you could get that one, according to your appraisal...

But trying to find your stone on Price Scope with the same dimensions, yeilds NOTHING. I reduced the color and clarity, and found ONE stone between every possible color or clarity:

.80cts, GIA G, VS2, D=55.6, T=68 for $2,277.0

usually a cut this abberant from "ideal" as defined by even AGS sells at a reduced rate of perhaps somewhere from 30-60% off RAP price. I use RAP only because it's difficult to find stones to equal it for a price comparison!

According to the AGA CHARTS your stone seems to be rated as a 4A in depth, a 3B is table, and a 3B in crown. THAT should qaulify it for a significantly reduced RAP price.

Also note that according to the 3B average cut, it would be on average $3977 (looking in the Price Stats Link, under 1.00-1.49, H, VS2 category. It would be $3462 at the lowest category right next to that table...

Also, usually an EGL certificate sells less than a GIA, just so you know. Not sure HOW much less, but I'd say, YEAH you got a FEW legs to stand on!!!

Good luck and let us know how it goes!!!

 

[moremoremore]

They will still sell their merchandise to his mother and grandmother despite anything that happens regarding your situation. It's business......

Unfortunately, you can't blame the store for selling something that your fiance was willing to buy if they didn't misrepresent any of the specs. They have a duty to sell you what they say they are selling you...( Keep in ming that with most vendors (not ps vendors, b/c we wouldn't let them get away with it...lol

) there always is some "puffery" and they don't have an obligation to educate.... I would get your booty there asap. Hopefully they can at least let you exchange it... Best of luck!

 

[bwmccarthy]

Thanks so much for all your input - that definitely helps. And I will let you know how far I get with them this weekend

 

[Nicrez]

Well if it's someone you want to keep close, then start out with the nicest smiles and say, "look, my fiance bought a ring here and it's just about the worst possible choice, because of this
this and this. I told him you will be very accomodating and help us out to get a stone we are both happy with"

They will defend the stone and his choice and try to make it seem like a giant amoung diamonds. Listen quietly, don't interrupt. When they finish, say, "Yeah, I'd like to get a stone that is from ___depth to ____table. What can you do to help?"

If this still is too nice, step it up and say, "look my family buys from you so often I just KNOW that you will help us out on one the THE most important pieces of jewelery I will own. And when he looks for upgrades or anniversary gifts, I know he would like to work with you."

If that fails, try the whole angry, don't cross me approach of "I know that this stone should sell SIGNIFICANTLY below market for being such a poor cut. Any gemeologist will tell you that. If you want, I can eaily have it appraised by a third party, and I will demand my money back for the stone AND the appraisal, once I have contacted the BBB...Thanks. And walk out." Watch them try to stop you and negotiate. Works everytime...

Wish you the best and may it all work out for you!!!

 

[zmre2b]

I second what she said, plus (assuming you do want to fight this yourself which you might reconsider -- see below), bring in a copy of the AGA chart for radiants from http://www.gemappraisers.com/ so you can show them what nicerez pointed out.

And bring along 2 pricescope printouts of diamonds: 1) a list of diamonds that have roughly similar specs to yours so that you can show them what similar diamonds go for (you should point out the per carat price so as to be more comparable; say "see we paid $X per carat for this quality, when actually the going rate for this quality is $Y-Z per carat") and 2) a list of diamonds that are roughly the same price as yours but have better specs (so you can show him what sort of size/quality you want as a replacement).

And also consider: apart from the specs, how does the diamond look to you? It's white and eyeclean and I'm sure it sparkles. Will you really be able to tell the difference in everyday wear with a normal amount of dust and grime on it anyway? Is it worth the fight to get a ring that has better specs but might, at the end of the day, look about the same?

If it is worth it to you, unless you are super easy going and don't mind having what might be an ugly fight with a defensive jeweler, consider having someone else go to the jeweler on your behalf so you don't have to deal with it. You don't want your memories of the ring to include a lot of grief and fights with jewelers.

 

[bwmccarthy]

I am back from the original jeweler's with an update!

I am happy to say the guy was a class act (probably explains why the fiance's family shops there). I had spoken to him on the phone this week explaining my issue with the table/depth and said i would be in this weekend. When I arrived he thanked me first off for coming in to possibly exchange as it would be my perogative to have a full refund. We discussed for a bit that I was really looking for more of an ideal cut and he explained he would be happy to help me and took down some notes and then said he would research diamonds Mon/Tues and have some in for me to look at mid-week.

Since I live and work an hour away in the city this is not entirely convenient. And I had seen from my research this week that most jewelers I'd been to had quite a selection in the store. I felt the way he was explaining it that it could drag on for awhile in this way of him ordering a few pieces etc. So finally I told him I appreciated his help but at this point and because of the distance I really felt most comfortable with a refund. He said no problem and out the door I went with a 100% refund.

He did acknowledge the following as well - he said being in the retail business a certain percentage of what is sold is expected back. It is how he handles those returns that determines future business. I told him I completely agreed and looked forward to returning with my fiance in the future to purchase from him (we'll just DEFINTELY be more knowledgeable next time to make sure we get a good deal!)

I am heading to a different jeweler I feel very comfortable on Monday who helped educate me this week as well. I will let you know the end result on the new ring!

Thanks again for you help!!
Bridget