Today is not my day.

[nail_polish]

So... I just finished an alarming conversation with my mom and younger sister.

I always knew that my dad had some hesitation about me and my boyfriend getting engaged ''so young''... He says he''d prefer if we waited till I was ''done school'' which after all these years has changed to being done ALL my school (masters included)! It has (here and there) been expressed that I should wait till my older sister is married as well.

She was engaged on Christmas Day of 2007. Her wedding is not until November of this year.
She has had her engagement party and what not.

We will OBVIOUSLY not do it amidst any of their wedding celebrations or too close to their wedding.

I asked my older sister if she would be mad if we got engaged before they were married and she said she would not be mad, as long as its not like AT their wedding - duh.

However, my conversation today really opened my eyes to the fact that no one in my family will be too happy when we get engaged. I have been nervous for my boyfriend talking to my dad because I fear he''ll say no; however, boyfriend reassures me that they will work it out and not to worry. If it hasn''t been evident enough - I am a worrier.

Anyway, my mom and younger sister suddenly jumped on the bandwagon telling me that I should wait and it would be better even it is the day after my older sister is married.

I think this is preposterous. It seems as if everyone expects us to wait until its a right time for them - until my boyfriend''s brother is married, until my cousin is christened, until another cousin is born, until my boyfriend''s cousin gets married, until the other gets married, until my friend gets married, then until my sister gets married.. well, what will happen then?

Maybe my sister will get pregnant right away. Maybe someone else will get engaged and then I''ll be ''stealing their thunder'' too.

UGH. I am so upset now. It honestly broke my heart to hear these comments...

I''m sorry for ranting. My boyfriend is working overtime today so I can''t instantly call and talk with him about it, so here I am

 

[smiles]

NailPolish I am so sorry you are feeling down about all this!!! I think it is crazy to wait until everyone else is finished with their business because something else will always come up. As long as you don''t get engaged at your sisters wedding (which I know you would never do) or anything really inconsiderate like that I say you take the step when you and your FF are ready. You''ve checked with your sister and done what you can.

I hope when you do get engaged they will see how happy you are and how much it takes nothing away from your sisters happiness and spotlight time and be really happy for you as well. HUGS!!! This sucks!

 

[NakedFinger]

Date: 2/21/2009 1:50:28 PM
Author:nail_polish

I think this is preposterous. It seems as if everyone expects us to wait until its a right time for them - until my boyfriend's brother is married, until my cousin is christened, until another cousin is born, until my boyfriend's cousin gets married, until the other gets married, until my friend gets married, then until my sister gets married.. well, what will happen then?

nail_polish-

Not to sound blunt.....but honestly its no one else's business when you get engaged but you and your SO. I think it is sweet of you to take your family and friend's lives and wishes into consideration, but the truth this is something between the two of you, not between you, your bf, and the entire world lol.

I will give you some advice that my mom gave me...."There is always going to be something in the way of getting engaged, and always be some reason to delay it. If you wait for the perfect time for everyone else, it will never happen. Because that doesn't exist".

 

[sammyj]

Date: 2/21/2009 2:04:41 PM
Author: NakedFinger

I will give you some advice that my mom gave me....''There is always going to be something in the way of getting engaged, and always be some reason to delay it. If you wait for the perfect time for everyone else, it will never happen. Because that doesn''t exist''.

NakedFinger''s mom is a wise woman!!!

 

[Octavia]

Date: 2/21/2009 2:18:36 PM
Author: sammyj

Date: 2/21/2009 2:04:41 PM

Author: NakedFinger

I will give you some advice that my mom gave me....'There is always going to be something in the way of getting engaged, and always be some reason to delay it. If you wait for the perfect time for everyone else, it will never happen. Because that doesn't exist'.

NakedFinger's mom is a wise woman!!!

Ditto. And it goes for all of life's other milestones, too -- once you're married, are you supposed to wait to have children (if you want to do so) because your younger sister gets engaged, or your older sister is pregnant, or some cousin is doing this or friend is doing that? At some point you have to put your foot down and make people realize that it's your life and that, while you'll do your best to be considerate of others, you won't be walked all over because of their choices.

Honestly, as a bride-to-be myself, I don't understand why anyone expects more than the wedding day --at the very most -- as "their time." Or why people are incapable of believing that family and friends can be happy and excited for more than one person at a time. Aren't things like that supposed to add to the excitement? Maybe I'm just naive, but the whole deal with engagements and weddings and stealing thunder and waiting for others to finish first seems awfully tiresome and petty. I say, do what is right for you and your boyfriend, and everyone else will come around to it (unless they really are that selfish, in which case it's a different problem altogether and even more reason not to wait around for their approval. ETA: not saying that your family is this way, but we have heard from others with similar problems in the past whose families are that way -- so this part is general, not specific).

 

[nail_polish]

Thanks for the advice, ladies.

Boyfriend just had lunch and so we had a chance to talk about it on the phone.

Everything said here corresponds with how I feel and what I voiced, but according to my family I am being selfish.

I think it should ADD to the excitement. I think it should be for him and I and not the whole world. I feel we''re being considerate as it is.

I must add that I think part of the frustration is that my sister''s fiance asked my parents for their blessing prior to buying the ring (like almost 2 months before he proposed)... Whereas, my boyfriend has the ring already and when I found out - in my excitement - I told my mom. So I think she is partially p.o''d that he hasn''t gone to talk with them yet.

I like the advice from your mom NakedFinger. It is entirely true. Made me cry actually.

And honestly, in response to what you said, Octavia - - at what point do we put our foot down and stop living for everyone else? I feel like a doormat. My whole life I have felt like I get walked all over by everyone.

I really don''t want to start this engagement off on the wrong foot... I would hate for it to be a source of stress. On top of it all, I thought asking my sister and talking to her was enough, but apparently according to my younger sister - the older one doesn''t have ''the balls'' to say if it truthfully would bother her.

The only way I can see my family ''supporting us'' is if we indeed do change our timeline...

I feel nauseous. UGH.

 

[jjdav]

Sorry to hear you''re going through such a tough time right now, but I also have to jump in and be blunt, it seems to be me that your family members are the ones being selfish. You''ve already did what you could and their reaction just seems totally unreasonable, I don''t see why you have to sacrifice your life for them when really what you will be doing won''t even impact them significantly, it''s your life that''s going to be changing the most.

In any case, your engagement will be the perfect time to start fresh and stop having others ''walk all over you'', you will be on your way to forming own family then! Until recently I didn''t even consider this myself, but once you''re married you start a new immediate family!

Cheer up, once you''re married, you will be spending a lot less time with them and a lot more with your dear SO!

 

[nail_polish]

jjdav

Thanks for your advice. You''re right, this may be the perfect time to stop being a doormat.

I just hate feeling like this ''happy step'' for me will tear our family apart.

I sincerely do feel like they are being selfish. I don''t think it should steal any spotlight from my sister. We are not going to have a huge engagement party to take anything away from them or anything like that.

My mom claims that it will also ''take away from my engagement to share with my sister''s wedding''... I don''t see this because again, its my boyfriend and I''s engagement... and it will be exciting for the two of us together because to be honest, I''m not like can''t-eat-can''t-sleep excited for my sister to get married, maybe there is something wrong with me?

 

[nail_polish]

Thinking about it more...

When my boyfriend does go to talk to them... What if my parents say no?

He always says we''ll go along with our plans anyway. And I have always thought this too... Thinking, they''ll come around... But, now I don''t know

 

[NakedFinger]

Date: 2/21/2009 2:18:36 PM
Author: sammyj

Date: 2/21/2009 2:04:41 PM
Author: NakedFinger

I will give you some advice that my mom gave me....''There is always going to be something in the way of getting engaged, and always be some reason to delay it. If you wait for the perfect time for everyone else, it will never happen. Because that doesn''t exist''.

NakedFinger''s mom is a wise woman!!!

Haha thanks! I figure you cant go wrong with advice from a woman who starting dating her husband at 12 and is still deliriously happy after 35 years together.

 

[NakedFinger]

Date: 2/21/2009 3:16:29 PM
Author: nail_polish

Thinking about it more...

When my boyfriend does go to talk to them... What if my parents say no?

He always says we'll go along with our plans anyway. And I have always thought this too... Thinking, they'll come around... But, now I don't know

Have him ask for their blessing not their permisson.

This way, they cant say "NO you cant marry my daughter" when he asks "Can I marry her?". Because if they say that, and you do it anyway then he (as well as you) are directly going against what they say. Whereas if he says "I am asking your daughter to marry me, and would like to have your blessing" and they say "Sorry we cant give you our blessing", then at least you can still proceed without directly going against something they dont him he couldnt do.

Sorry if that sounded confusing!

 

[nail_polish]

Date: 2/21/2009 3:46:37 PM
Author: NakedFinger
Date: 2/21/2009 3:16:29 PM

Have him ask for their blessing not their permisson.


This way, they cant say ''NO you cant marry my daughter'' when he asks ''Can I marry her?''. Because if they say that, and you do it anyway then he (as well as you) are directly going against what they say. Whereas if he says ''I am asking your daughter to marry me, and would like to have your blessing'' and they say ''Sorry we cant give you our blessing'', then at least you can still proceed without directly going against something they dont him he couldnt do.


Sorry if that sounded confusing!

Hey.. Actually, this is something we have talked about as well. Because my sister''s fiance asked for their permission rather than their blessing. And, my boyfriend plans to ask for both mine and his parent''s blessing but kinda disregard it if they say no. Which brings me to wonder, why ask?

I don''t know. It''s important to me that they know prior to... I, personally, would have talked to them before buying it - I don''t know why. Maybe cause that''s how my sister''s fiance did it. But, yeah.

I foresee bad things happening...

 

[ckrickett]

Date: 2/21/2009 2:04:41 PM
Author: NakedFinger

Date: 2/21/2009 1:50:28 PM
Author:nail_polish

I think this is preposterous. It seems as if everyone expects us to wait until its a right time for them - until my boyfriend''s brother is married, until my cousin is christened, until another cousin is born, until my boyfriend''s cousin gets married, until the other gets married, until my friend gets married, then until my sister gets married.. well, what will happen then?

nail_polish-

Not to sound blunt.....but honestly its no one else''s business when you get engaged but you and your SO. I think it is sweet of you to take your family and friend''s lives and wishes into consideration, but the truth this is something between the two of you, not between you, your bf, and the entire world lol.

I will give you some advice that my mom gave me....''There is always going to be something in the way of getting engaged, and always be some reason to delay it. If you wait for the perfect time for everyone else, it will never happen. Because that doesn''t exist''.

nail on the HEAD!

 

[nail_polish]

Okay so.. we had a miniature follow-up and the basic consensus is...

"What's the big deal in waiting 8 more months?"

Apparently if we *know* we'll be together forever, etc. etc. Then why "rush".

What does everyone think about this?

I don't feel as if my family thinks it is a valid argument that we are ready and feel this is an appropriate time for us or that we WANT to do it now... it's still not a good enough reason.

EDIT: Yay, 100 posts!

 

[ckrickett]

Date: 2/21/2009 4:17:39 PM
Author: nail_polish

Okay so.. we had a miniature follow-up and the basic consensus is...

''What''s the big deal in waiting 8 more months?''

Apparently if we *know* we''ll be together forever, etc. etc. Then why ''rush''.

What does everyone think about this?

I don''t feel as if my family thinks it is a valid argument that we are ready and feel this is an appropriate time for us or that we WANT to do it now... it''s still not a good enough reason.

EDIT: Yay, 100 posts!

That''s true, but then that applies the other way as well. If you KNOW you will be together forever why not start your life NOW. Works both ways (SO hates when I say this) the best argument is to do it when the time is perfect for BOTH OF YOU! That''s the perfect time. It''s not rushing, or waiting, but the right moment.

 

[nail_polish]

Date: 2/21/2009 4:24:58 PM
Author: ckrickett

Date: 2/21/2009 4:17:39 PM

Author: nail_polish



Okay so.. we had a miniature follow-up and the basic consensus is...


''What''s the big deal in waiting 8 more months?''


Apparently if we *know* we''ll be together forever, etc. etc. Then why ''rush''.


What does everyone think about this?


I don''t feel as if my family thinks it is a valid argument that we are ready and feel this is an appropriate time for us or that we WANT to do it now... it''s still not a good enough reason.


EDIT: Yay, 100 posts!

That''s true, but then that applies the other way as well. If you KNOW you will be together forever why not start your life NOW. Works both ways (SO hates when I say this) the best argument is to do it when the time is perfect for BOTH OF YOU! That''s the perfect time. It''s not rushing, or waiting, but the right moment.

I couldn''t agree with what you''re saying more.

I am hoping once my boyfriend does sit down and speak with my parents, they WILL come around. He is much calmer about this and I think it will be better coming from him than me. *fingers crossed*

 

[NakedFinger]

Date: 2/21/2009 4:17:39 PM
Author: nail_polish

'What's the big deal in waiting 8 more months?'

I quote when Harry Met Sally...."When you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible". Thats my favorite quote.

Not for nothing....i dont know about you, but for me....waiting 8 months would feel like an ETERNITY!

(spoken from someone who's waited 8 years hahahahahah)

 

[SailorsSweet<3]

Im sorry NP

Thats very frustrating.


I know we''re kind of in the same situation as far as pending engagements (although I still have a year left thanks to my poor class planning) but I can totally relate to what youre saying. For the past year and a half or so I''ve told SO that I didnt want to get engaged before my (projected)graduation date (which has come and gone). I was worried that my family would think we were too young, that we didnt spend enough time with each others families yet - so on and so far. I now know that our families would have been just as thrilled if we got engaged a year ago. BUT hindsight is always 20/20 right? I am much closer to SO''s family now and our families have now spent time with one another which I''m thrilled about. I guess what I''m saying is if you feel that your ready now thats all that matters - you and your SO are the only two who know what level your relationship is on and what goals you''ve set to achieve before engagement. If you feel the next step is getting engaged then go for it!

AND - as for your other thread. When your SO proposes I guarantee you''ll find time to enjoy it despite all your school work and thesis work - maybe it will help you go full force to complete all that because you''ll be so pumped that your engaged? Ive had a stronger drive this semester just know SO is going to propose in a couple months. CHANNEL THAT LIW ENERGY!

 

[SailorsSweet<3]

Sorry - I had an after thought. Do your parents want you to wait because they''re contributing $$ to your sister''s wedding and will be doing the same for yours?

 

[nail_polish]

Date: 2/21/2009 4:53:23 PM
Author: NakedFinger
Date: 2/21/2009 4:17:39 PM

I quote when Harry Met Sally....''When you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible''. Thats my favorite quote.


Not for nothing....i dont know about you, but for me....waiting 8 months would feel like an ETERNITY!


(spoken from someone who''s waited 8 years hahahahahah)

I absolutely LOVE that quote! Waiting would absolutely suck, for lack of a more eloquent way to put it. And to be honest, I see a lot of resentment that would grow toward my sister and my family in general as a result.

 

[nail_polish]

Date: 2/21/2009 5:05:22 PM
Author: SailorsSweet<3
CHANNEL THAT LIW ENERGY!

This is a really motivating concept... It very well could help me focus! You''re absolutely right! Thank you for the advice.

As for the money issue, my parents are not financially helping my sister with her wedding; her and her fiance are footing the bill for the event. However, they did buy her dress... as their ''gift to her''. And pay for the engagement party. We do not want an engagement party of that nature, just a simple backyard get together to acknowledge our engagement so... I don''t think the finances really come into play.

 

[SailorsSweet<3]

Date: 2/21/2009 5:26:23 PM
Author: nail_polish

Date: 2/21/2009 5:05:22 PM

Author: SailorsSweet<3

CHANNEL THAT LIW ENERGY!

This is a really motivating concept... It very well could help me focus! You''re absolutely right! Thank you for the advice.


As for the money issue, my parents are not financially helping my sister with her wedding; her and her fiance are footing the bill for the event. However, they did buy her dress... as their ''gift to her''. And pay for the engagement party. We do not want an engagement party of that nature, just a simple backyard get together to acknowledge our engagement so... I don''t think the finances really come into play.

Then honestly dear, I cannot fathom any other reason they have for asking you to wait. IMHO Thats kind of selfish of them. Do you know anything about their engagement? Ask your mother how her and your father felt when they were ready to get engaged. Maybe she cant relate to what you and SO feel but maybe she can and shes just forgotten. Tell her to wander over to this forum and she''ll remember the LIW roller coaster of emotions

 

[nail_polish]

Date: 2/21/2009 5:31:23 PM
Author: SailorsSweet<3
Then honestly dear, I cannot fathom any other reason they have for asking you to wait. IMHO Thats kind of selfish of them. Do you know anything about their engagement? Ask your mother how her and your father felt when they were ready to get engaged. Maybe she cant relate to what you and SO feel but maybe she can and shes just forgotten. Tell her to wander over to this forum and she''ll remember the LIW roller coaster of emotions

What I know about their engagement is that my mom felt shafted that they had to wait until my uncles (my dad''s brothers) got married first because he was the youngest. She was ready to be engaged for years before it happened. Then they had a 6 month engagement and she feels jipped it was so short.

The long and short of it is, she said they would never put us in that position because of their experiences and yet here I am.

I think their biggest problem is that we are apparently stealing my sister''s spotlight...

 

[LaraOnline]

I think Octavia's post sums everything up perfectly, and all the other ladies posts have been great too...

There are so many other, more personal elements to consider when it comes to engagmenent - your life planning/timetabling, perhaps your finances...if now is the right time, it's the right time!

Asking someone to put off an engagement (which in itself really requires no action beyond wearing a lovely ring and perhaps letting family know) seems - well, it seems a little bizarre to me.

I mean, is your mother is worried that you are going to marry the week after your sister, so she won't be so able to fuss over the menus with you...

It does seem a common community trait that people love to be 'upset' over other people's romantic relationships, perhaps you are providing the little touch of 'drama' people look for in their lives by (inadvertently) having provided them with a some opportunity to say yay/nay to your own engagement? I mean, you've got the ring already, for crying out loud!

People do tend to get married within a certain time frame, have children within a certain timeframe...it seems obvious that there will be a few 'double ups' of significant life events between you and your own sister! She was engaged over a year ago, for pete's sake!

Perhaps you and your parents have had a slightly fragmented relationship in the past, and they are filtering your behaviour (or tht of your bf) through a different lense than the one through which they view your sister?

If so, I'm not sure it will help matters to point this out to them, but you could subtly try to put their minds at ease by tackling their concerns in the comments you make during conversation...eg if they think you are 'irresponsible' (that is their label for you) try to clearly demonstrate your responsibility and maturity in your conversations...even by using the words 'responsible' a lot within a conversation, etc

I think was mother was only too happy to label me the 'problem child' myself - she was awfully surprised when I got 'suddenly' settled down into a very happy marriage - I think she's a bit non-plussed!

 

[nail_polish]

LaraOnline
Thank you for your advice.
In a way, I think we are being viewed in a different lense than my other sisters; however, I have tried not to bring that up, so I'm not accused of making myself the victim.

... I am so upset and feel as if I have wasted the day thinking about this.

I voiced my feelings to my mom after dinner tonight. It was just her and I around, and I thought now would be a good time. And, it was awful. She completely exploded. She accused me of being hormonal and over-reacting. She said all this 'pre-stuff', like us fighting about it and me talking about being excited isn't necessary. She said, if he's going to propose, just do it.

She did say that they would not NOT be happy but they feel like we're not compromising (i.e. doing it their way) and know that we'll do it either way, so whatever.

I see her frustration, and maybe in the past I have been too emphatic about the fact that we will go about our life as we see fit, whether or not we get their blessing.

However, I continued to try to explain myself rationally and she just would not understand. I even brought up some of the points suggested here... In the end, I told her to just drop it. I said I thought talking about it would help, but obviously it doesn't.

She then completely exploded.

She went on to say that she doesn't understand why I just can't let the christening tomorrow (my cousin's child is being baptised) pass and why am I being so selfish?

This just proves my point that I feel like there will always be something.

Ugh.. I want to crawl under a rock.

 

[packrat]

Oh wow NP, I''m sorry you have to deal with that! The prospect of getting engaged and then actually getting engaged, and BEING engaged-it''s all supposed to be fun and exciting-not stressful and mircomanaged by the rest of the family. I would''ve been thrilled to pieces if one of my friends (or a sister if I had one) had gotten engaged while I was planning my wedding. First of all, I''d be excited FOR HER, but then I''d be excited b/c it''s someone to "talk shop" with and bounce ideas off. It''s not like you guys are going to wait until they''re pronounced husband and wife and then jump up and yell "Hey everyone we''re engaged!" I agree w/everyone else''s advice. Smart women here!

 

[nail_polish]

Date: 2/21/2009 9:23:32 PM
Author: packrat
Oh wow NP, I''m sorry you have to deal with that! The prospect of getting engaged and then actually getting engaged, and BEING engaged-it''s all supposed to be fun and exciting-not stressful and mircomanaged by the rest of the family. I would''ve been thrilled to pieces if one of my friends (or a sister if I had one) had gotten engaged while I was planning my wedding. First of all, I''d be excited FOR HER, but then I''d be excited b/c it''s someone to ''talk shop'' with and bounce ideas off. It''s not like you guys are going to wait until they''re pronounced husband and wife and then jump up and yell ''Hey everyone we''re engaged!'' I agree w/everyone else''s advice. Smart women here!

I have the same outlook on it as you do; I would welcome my younger sister being engaged simultaneously or any one else for that matter to SHARE in the excitement. For some reason, my family doesn''t see it this way and somehow that makes ME the selfish one.

Thank you for your reply though.

Thank you to every one.

I cannot believe how much this has blown up.... but I am glad I at least have the support of you ladies, here.

<3

 

[supergirl10]

oh im sorry to hear that NP i could see what your familys problem may be if you sis got engaged christmas 08 but it has been over 12 months and if you got engaged soon it is nowhere near nov 09 so that really makes no sense!

Btw how old are, im just asking because that seems like an odd argument!

 

[nail_polish]

Date: 2/22/2009 4:17:14 AM
Author: supergirl10
oh im sorry to hear that NP i could see what your familys problem may be if you sis got engaged christmas 08 but it has been over 12 months and if you got engaged soon it is nowhere near nov 09 so that really makes no sense!


Btw how old are, im just asking because that seems like an odd argument!

Hey supergirl10,

I''m 21 and my boyfriend is 22. Which may have something to do with it as they feel I am too young..

However, I agree - if my older sister had JUST been engaged or we planned to get engaged near to any of their parties/celebrations/etc, fine... but we''re not... *shakes her head* Ugh. I don''t know...

I barely slept last night, I''m still so bummed out about this.

 

[LilyOfTheValley]

Date: 2/21/2009 2:48:38 PM
Author: nail_polish

And honestly, in response to what you said, Octavia - - at what point do we put our foot down and stop living for everyone else? I feel like a doormat. My whole life I have felt like I get walked all over by everyone.

People treat you the way that you allow them to. That was the very first lesson that I learned in life.

The second lesson that I learned: You get what you settle for.

Honestly, these people treat you the way that they do, and dangle their "familial support" in front of you like a carrot because they know they CAN.

YOU are the boss of YOUR life. Now is the time for you to step up and show them who's boss. If they give you any crap, tell them that THEY are the selfish ones, and provide examples.

You can either stay exactly where you're at right now, for God knows how long, or do something about it. Unless you change, your situation is going to remain the way it is.

And to answer your question about how long do they expect you to wait, the answer is: For as long as they can make you/for as long as you are willing to.

Take the initiative and start making your own plans. It's 2009, not 1909.

Be the driver of your life and steer it into the direction that you want to. These people are either going to get on your side, or they're never going to.

It may sound difficult to "defy" them (but honestly, at 21, taking charge of your own life is not defiance!), but it's actually quite easy once you've gotten started.