To what degree do you think PSers enable?

[TravelingGal]

So, let's leave that other thread for a minute (since Andrey requested to keep off tangents down) and talk about this, as it was mentioned.

How much do we PSers enable? And not just for diamonds? Do you ever say no when it's not for financial reasons? Does not enabling make one a serious party pooper?

For the record, when someone said "we all know what thread", I had no idea. I don't visit LIW anymore. I found it surprising when seemed implied that longtime PSers would enable someone in financial situation to buy a ring. Looking at that thread, most posters who did say "go for it" had a post count of 200 and were newer...which means maybe they didn't know all the history (or - and don't shoot me for this - a younger LIW who isn't going to spout out much about financial responsibility). In fact, the person who said don't buy it was a long term poster.

When do you enable? At what point shouldn't we? Or is there? I mean, at the end of the day, is everyone responsible for their own decisions, or is that idealistic since some people ARE swayed by hype? Are PSers in any way responsible because we are a social group and social groups should bear some standards?

 

[MonkeyPie]

It wasn't a thread, it was off PS, I think.

I don't presume to know anyone's financial situation on PS. If I DO, however, I will speak up. And not just for diamonds - for trips, for gifts, for having children. If you can't afford it, I think it's silly to buy it.

I have had people tell ME that, too, so it goes both ways.

 

[monarch64]

Speaking from personal experience with this, I found that I was most easily influenced by so -called enablers either here or in my real life peer group, when I was going through a rough patch in life an looking for material possessions to fill certain voids or boost my self-esteem. I bought a crapload of stuff including some jewelry, the year I ended up leaving my marriage. However, no one knew about my situation at the time. It wasn't as if I was coming here talking about how unhappy I was and people were telling me to go buy myself something. I think that, instead, I found a group of people here whom I admired, I respected their ideas and opinions, and I suppose at the heart of the matter I felt that if I possessed things similar to theirs then maybe I would be respected and admired as well. You PSr's ARE CLEVER MARKETERS.

I don't think many here really TRY to enable others, unless someone posts a thread (and I've seen it done before) titled "please enable me--I want such-and-such item." I know that I do not intentionally tell people to buy things unless I have personal experience with the item and they have specifically asked questions about it that I can answer.

MP--there was a thread in LIW about a ring someone's spouse wanted to buy them, it wasn't just offline.

 

[kama_s]

TGal: For having such a clever head on your shoulder, you sure are quite oblivious! I mentioned the thread, with the poster's name et al on the BGD thread.

 

[TravelingGal]

TGal: For having such a clever head on your shoulder, you sure are quite oblivious! I mentioned the thread, with the poster's name et al on the BGD thread.

I think the other poster mentioned it without specifics BEFORE I saw your post. It was yours that made me go, "oh." I would not have found it otherwise.

I tell you, I don't read as much as I should around here. Bull in a china shop.

 

[zoebartlett]

I had no idea about that thread (the one TGal or Kama mentioned) so I'm off to read it now. I really should pay more attention around here -- I hadn't read the BGD thread either. It looks like I have a lot of reading to do. I'll be back...

 

[kama_s]

TGal: For having such a clever head on your shoulder, you sure are quite oblivious! I mentioned the thread, with the poster's name et al on the BGD thread.

I think the other poster mentioned it without specifics BEFORE I saw your post. It was yours that made me go, "oh." I would not have found it otherwise.

I tell you, I don't read as much as I should around here. Bull in a china shop.

That would be pot calling kettle black. The only reason I knew about this is because I have had an incredibly slow month at work. All those damn sales people schmoozing in November

 

[TravelingGal]

TGal: For having such a clever head on your shoulder, you sure are quite oblivious! I mentioned the thread, with the poster's name et al on the BGD thread.

I think the other poster mentioned it without specifics BEFORE I saw your post. It was yours that made me go, "oh." I would not have found it otherwise.

I tell you, I don't read as much as I should around here. Bull in a china shop.

That would be pot calling kettle black. The only reason I knew about this is because I have had an incredibly slow month at work. All those damn sales people schmoozing in November

Ha...I love this week for sales...it's the craziest and yet the slowest....things have already been done.

I'm not just talking about that thread. Just in general. Like, say purses or shoes. Someone has 50 pairs of shoes. Wants another. Is anyone going to say, "OK, I know you just said you needed money for X bill...you have 50 pairs of shoes, do you really need THOSE too?" People generally DON'T say that around here if the financial situation isn't brought up in the thread by the OP first.

Should you just say, "Those are awesome shoes, my friend!" Because it's not your business about her bills, and really, those shoes ARE cute?

Or maybe you say nothing...

 

[fieryred33143]

I'm apparently in the dark with all of the issues going on in PS and that's a-ok with me.

IMO though, I do think people tend to hold off from commenting on the obvious. Why? Not sure. Maybe they don't want to deal with people telling them it's a rude comment? IDK.

I also think that your history comes into play a lot of times. If you have a history of taking offense to every comment made that isn't sugarcoated, then people will either be your cheerleader or will ignore you. It happened before in LIW with a regular poster. People gave honest opinions, it offended. So people started to ignore. It is what it is.

I personally feel that it isn't my business to tell someone that they shouldn't be doing something because of a situation they posted in the past. I would like to say something, especially with very serious topics, but it's not my place.

Plus, if I'm being honest I wouldn't want someone to throw anything in my face. If I came on here and said that I was going to purchase jewlery or a new item, I wouldn't want someone to jump in with "are you sure? Isn't your FI not working?" I would be really offended and feel the need to forward a copy of my bank statement or something.

 

[ForteKitty]

Some people enable a little, a lot of people enable a lot. Very few people will speak up and say, "maybe you should think about this objectively".

When someone says, "i'm upset because xyz, things are hard at home, yet i still want to buy abc", and loads of people respond w/ "you totally deserve it, buy it!"... it really pisses me off. For someone looking to fill a void, that's all it takes. I rather see zero responses to a thread like that.

Call me cold hearted, but i rather not see the same emotional threads over and over again. If my best friend comes up to me w/ the same issue over and over again, i'd probably throttle her.

 

[Haven]

I'm of the mind that people are responsible for their actions, period. I don't think we enable others here on PS, either, but I don't spend much time in threads about spending money so I'm probably not qualified to draw any conclusions, here.

I haven't read the thread in question, so I'll go find that, now. However, I've always had the impression that PSers are generally in favor of only buying things if one can pay for them in cash. I realize this may be my perception because it's what *I* believe, and perhaps I just ignore all posts that say otherwise.

Overall, I see more posts where people say "Only buy what you can afford" than posts where people say "DO IT! DO IT!"

 

[TravelingGal]

I'm apparently in the dark with all of the issues going on in PS and that's a-ok with me.

IMO though, I do think people tend to hold off from commenting on the obvious. Why? Not sure. Maybe they don't want to deal with people telling them it's a rude comment? IDK.

I also think that your history comes into play a lot of times. If you have a history of taking offense to every comment made that isn't sugarcoated, then people will either be your cheerleader or will ignore you. It happened before in LIW with a regular poster. People gave honest opinions, it offended. So people started to ignore. It is what it is.

I personally feel that it isn't my business to tell someone that they shouldn't be doing something because of a situation they posted in the past. I would like to say something, especially with very serious topics, but it's not my place.

Plus, if I'm being honest I wouldn't want someone to throw anything in my face. If I came on here and said that I was going to purchase jewlery or a new item, I wouldn't want someone to jump in with "are you sure? Isn't your FI not working?" I would be really offended and feel the need to forward a copy of my bank statement or something.

I think that's being very honest. But what if you thought...hm, yeah, I'd better not...my FI isn't working...would you appreciate that kind of "help" in hindsight?

How much past history to bring in is always a tricky question. I remember awhile back, someone asked if they should change settings...again. The question was something like "I want to change my setting to either X or Y. Which do you like?" Easy answer to take question at face value. Tougher answer is to say, "well...you've been kind of unsure so far...maybe you should buy some fake rings and see if you'll like that style for sure? I think you should keep the one you have for awhile to see if it grows on you." That would be good advice, but not exactly what the poster asked.

 

[kama_s]

Or maybe you say nothing...

I typically say nothing. Unless the OP specifically asks for my opinion.

 

[ForteKitty]

The multiple setting change threads irritate me too. maybe i'm just easily irritable.

But seriously, if you can't decide, leave it alone. Re-setting it 10 times isn't gonna help. Irritates me even more when they decide to sell the whole thing completely because they can't decide...

 

[Indylady]

If there is a thread posted without any financial caveats, I make the assumption that the OP is able to pay for whatever it is they are asking about/showing off. That being said, sometimes I do wonder how PS'ers can afford to spend their $$ the way that they do. However, sometimes I wonder that about people in real life too.

I think we enable as much as others want to be enabled, if that makes sense.

 

[decodelighted]

Enabling isn't just about shopping. When a person (as many have) get back together with the same abusive SO again and again and again -- what are folks supposed to say? Inevitably there's a post that says "Yay me & my awesome news!" and, sure enough, clueless* folks will fill it with congrats .... sensitive folks will stay mum ... and SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES a more ornery sort will pipe in with a "huh?" or a "really?" or an "again?" Same goes for serial job quitters .... in-law fighters ... apartment swappers ... pet collectors etc.

Some folks are better equipped to handle push-back. And, sometimes, a prior friendly relationship with a poster can help folks see through to the generally good intentions of posters who DO push-back a bit.

There's a lot of conflicting expectations on here. No "party poopin" ... ALSO ... no "enabling". Rock. Hard place. Ow.


* clueless = people who are clueless about the checkered history of the original poster .... NOT as in "only clueless people would congratulate such a reunion".

 

[NovemberBride]

I was the one who mentioned thread in LIW and I only brought it up to make a point in response to Sad's post. I don't post in LIW, but I lurk when I have extra time on my hands. I was surprised by the responses in the thread because they were so out of line with what you usually see people post on PS (although in my experience the LIW posters tend to have a slightly different perspective than the rest of PS). I figured the rest of the long-term posters avoided that thread as I did because it was reminiscent of of T-gal's avatar. I felt like I was reading the same thread for the the 20th time and I knew any advice I gave along the lines of it not being a great idea to purchase an expensive ring under the circumstances (i) would lead to be being called a meanie and (ii) would be promptly ignored.

As for enabling in general, I guess PS enables people in terms of encouraging them to purchase jewelry, usually without regards to financial information because typically we don't have that information. In cases where a poster specifically points out that they would need a loan or to use a credit card to make a purchase, the responses are almost overwhelmingly to consider not doing so and waiting until they have the cash. But I don't really think that it is the role of an internet forum to tell people how to spend their money unless they ask. And in past instances when the advice not to make a purchase has been given based on financial information from past threads, the response has been overwhelmingly negative from the OP.

Finally, I hate to think that there are people out there who make important financial decisions based on what some anonymous poster on the internet thinks. If I am wavering on a decision I might ask for opinions on here, but in the end my decision will be based on my own preferences and financial situation. After all, I am the one who'll be paying with my hard-earned money, not the PS posters who encourage me.

 

[davi_el_mejor]

Are we talking about giving permission for people to act/buy certain things regardless of consequences, or are we talking about when someone wants opinions on should I buy this (as in is it a good deal/worth the price/would it be awesome to have)?

 

[TravelingGal]

Are we talking about giving permission for people to act/buy certain things regardless of consequences, or are we talking about when someone wants opinions on should I buy this (as in is it a good deal/worth the price/would it be awesome to have)?

Any and all. Just whatever meandering thoughts you have on the subject of enabling.

 

[iheartscience]

Enabling isn't just about shopping. When a person (as many have) get back together with the same abusive SO again and again and again -- what are folks supposed to say? Inevitably there's a post that says "Yay me & my awesome news!" and, sure enough, clueless folks will fill it with congrats .... sensitive folks will stay mum ... and SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES a more ornery sort will pipe in with a "huh?" or a "really?" or an "again?" Same goes for serial job quitters .... in-law fighters ... apartment swappers ... pet collectors etc.

Some folks are better equipped to handle push-back. And, sometimes, a prior friendly relationship with a poster can help folks see through to the generally good intentions of posters who DO push-back a bit.

There's a lot of conflicting expectations on here. No "party poopin" ... ALSO ... no "enabling". Rock. Hard place. Ow.

Ditto. I've been the party pooper in a few threads and I don't think anyone has listened to me once. So what's the point? If people want to be enabled, they will be. If I don't want something or if I do want something but know I shouldn't buy it, no amount of enabling is going to make me buy it.

But again, that's *me*. I don't have the kind of personality that would allow me to get back together with an abusive ex, or to even be with an abusive person in the first place. (I am NOT blaming the victim here, but certain personalities tend fall for abusers, and others just don't.) And someone with that type of personality-low self-esteem, people-pleaser, etc.- is also more likely to fall victim to the idea that if they can only get that ONE setting they'll LOVE their ring.

Not sure if I'm doing a great job saying what I'm trying to say, but there it is!

 

[TravelingGal]

Enabling isn't just about shopping. When a person (as many have) get back together with the same abusive SO again and again and again -- what are folks supposed to say? Inevitably there's a post that says "Yay me & my awesome news!" and, sure enough, clueless folks will fill it with congrats .... sensitive folks will stay mum ... and SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES a more ornery sort will pipe in with a "huh?" or a "really?" or an "again?" Same goes for serial job quitters .... in-law fighters ... apartment swappers ... pet collectors etc.

Some folks are better equipped to handle push-back. And, sometimes, a prior friendly relationship with a poster can help folks see through to the generally good intentions of posters who DO push-back a bit.

There's a lot of conflicting expectations on here. No "party poopin" ... ALSO ... no "enabling". Rock. Hard place. Ow.

Deco, that probably leads to another subject altogether: The one of if you are going to post in a public forum, are all opinions on the subject fair game? I think while socially there's probably some etiquette to follow, in reality it isn't always going to be the case. But again, that's another subject.

 

[ForteKitty]

Enabling isn't just about shopping. When a person (as many have) get back together with the same abusive SO again and again and again -- what are folks supposed to say? Inevitably there's a post that says "Yay me & my awesome news!" and, sure enough, clueless folks will fill it with congrats .... sensitive folks will stay mum ... and SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES a more ornery sort will pipe in with a "huh?" or a "really?" or an "again?" Same goes for serial job quitters .... in-law fighters ... apartment swappers ... pet collectors etc.

Some folks are better equipped to handle push-back. And, sometimes, a prior friendly relationship with a poster can help folks see through to the generally good intentions of posters who DO push-back a bit.

There's a lot of conflicting expectations on here. No "party poopin" ... ALSO ... no "enabling". Rock. Hard place. Ow.

Deco, that probably leads to another subject altogether: The one of if you are going to post in a public forum, are all opinions on the subject fair game? I think while socially there's probably some etiquette to follow, in reality it isn't always going to be the case. But again, that's another subject.

If you've posted the same topic 3+ times, or if your partner was abusive/cheater 1+ times, i say it's fair game.

 

[Haven]

Deco--Ah, yes. I was only thinking about enabling people to spend money based on what was said in the BGD thread.

If we're talking emotional enabling, or whatever a social scientist would call it, then YES, I think we enable on PS. I've learned to just stay out of threads where the emotional enabling is going on, because people don't ever seem to want to hear what I have to say about those issues.

There was a thread about someone who had to give up her dog after having children because the dog nipped. She shared that she had the dog since puppyhood, and that they never trained him not to nip because he was just so darn cute. (My paraphrasing, of course.) That thread incensed me, and I really wanted to respond with "TRAIN THE DOG! You are an irresponsible pet owner for adopting a puppy, failing to train it properly, encouraging bad puppy behavior, and then abandoning him when you have a child and realize that you don't feel like fixing your mistakes with the dog." But I didn't because everyone else in the thread was all "Oh, you have to put your child first, get rid of the dog!" (Of course, I agree that the child comes first, but HELLO--she created this problem for herself.)

Anyway, I don't remember who the poster was, but it was one of only a few threads where the enabling really bothered me.

As for bringing up prior knowledge about a poster's situation, I have mixed feelings on that. It's in my nature to a) give people the benefit of the doubt, and b) forget things about people shortly after I learn them, so I don't often do it myself. I do remember a couple threads where a poster first shared that she lost her job, and then posted about wanting a fancy honeymoon or something. I didn't respond because the best I could have mustered would have been:

We all know that people post, read the responses, respond with a "THANK YOU for agreeing" or defensiveness for those who don't, and then do what they originally planned to do, anyway. It's just a matter of figuring out whether you really want to offer a differing opinion badly enough to actually post in the thread, and then be ignored. I did this myself with my diamond--I fell in love with a cushion, posted pics in RT, got a lot of "Um, it's okay but you can do better" and bought it anyway. And guess what? I STILL LOVE IT!

 

[NovemberBride]

Enabling isn't just about shopping. When a person (as many have) get back together with the same abusive SO again and again and again -- what are folks supposed to say? Inevitably there's a post that says "Yay me & my awesome news!" and, sure enough, clueless folks will fill it with congrats .... sensitive folks will stay mum ... and SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES a more ornery sort will pipe in with a "huh?" or a "really?" or an "again?" Same goes for serial job quitters .... in-law fighters ... apartment swappers ... pet collectors etc.

Some folks are better equipped to handle push-back. And, sometimes, a prior friendly relationship with a poster can help folks see through to the generally good intentions of posters who DO push-back a bit.

There's a lot of conflicting expectations on here. No "party poopin" ... ALSO ... no "enabling". Rock. Hard place. Ow.

Deco, my feelings on this are that I don't like to waste my time. PS is a guilty pleasure of mine, but I actually have a pretty busy real life with a full-time job as an attorney, a husband and a baby and when I'm lucky, a little bit of an off-line social life. I have never once seen an OP in the type of thread you mention say, "Hey, you guys are right! I have seen the light! My bf/fi/dh/ex-dh is a real d-bag and treats me like cr*p. I (and my children) deserve much better, so I am leaving this creep for good."

Therefore, I believe that any advice I give would be promptly ignored as past experience has indicated, so I don't bother wasting my time replying (although I am guilty of following such threads to see the train-wreck that inevitably follows).

 

[decodelighted]

How wrong am *I* that I really really really want to break out the "I TOLD YOU SO" chestnut from time to time. I don't, of course. Guess that just means I'm WAY too invested in the soap opera aspect of long-time-PS-ing. So I'll take the embarrassment that comes with that.

 

[monarch64]

Enabling isn't just about shopping. When a person (as many have) get back together with the same abusive SO again and again and again -- what are folks supposed to say? Inevitably there's a post that says "Yay me & my awesome news!" and, sure enough, clueless folks will fill it with congrats .... sensitive folks will stay mum ... and SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES a more ornery sort will pipe in with a "huh?" or a "really?" or an "again?" Same goes for serial job quitters .... in-law fighters ... apartment swappers ... pet collectors etc.

Some folks are better equipped to handle push-back. And, sometimes, a prior friendly relationship with a poster can help folks see through to the generally good intentions of posters who DO push-back a bit.

There's a lot of conflicting expectations on here. No "party poopin" ... ALSO ... no "enabling". Rock. Hard place. Ow.

Deco, my feelings on this are that I don't like to waste my time. PS is a guilty pleasure of mine, but I actually have a pretty busy real life with a full-time job as an attorney, a husband and a baby and when I'm lucky, a little bit of an off-line social life. I have never once seen an OP in the type of thread you mention say, "Hey, you guys are right! I have seen the light! My bf/fi/dh/ex-dh is a real d-bag and treats me like cr*p. I (and my children) deserve much better, so I am leaving this creep for good."

Therefore, I believe that any advice I give would be promptly ignored as past experience has indicated, so I don't bother wasting my time replying (although I am guilty of following such threads to see the train-wreck that inevitably follows).

November, I agree, I've never seen anyone respond to adverse but honest advice and have a change of heart either. It is my opinion that people post things of that nature (family issues, marital probs, etc.) it is usually because they are looking for people to support or reinforce what they believe to be true about the situation (like, I am right to go back to my abusive ex because we've worked hard to get back to a place where he is being loving again).

Not long ago a poster re-married her ex-husband and there were major issues on the thread in which she brought up the news. Major. People were telling her to absolutely NOT go back to him/re-marry him and she did it anyway. People were most definitely not enabling her, although there were a few do-gooders who (I guess) were trying to look at the bright side. It was very frustrating. Since then I've tried to stay out of threads like that and really anything else that is very personal. Well, with the exception of my meanie behavior on some LIW threads. But I'm done with that too. I swear.

 

[CNOS128]

I think there's a bit of "enabling," if you can call it that. Although, to be honest, I think of enabling as being something only very close friends and family can do.
I think it's weird when someone has posted about their horrible experiences with a husband/boyfriend/whatever, only to turn around months later and announce a reconciliation, and that announcement is met with congratulations. I'm not sure if it's enabling or just laziness or politeness. Is it our role as random interwebz people to warn someone they are making a mistake? Or just not say anything? Or do we say, "Well, if you're happy, I'm happy for you...?" I think it's a question of line-drawing.

But there are also those threads in which some posters dole out "tough love" in a supportive way (I'm thinking of one or two situations in which Freke went back through posters' old threads and created a timeline of SOs' past behavior, etc). That brand of tough love doesn't usually have the desired effect, but it sure as hell isn't enabling.

ETA: I don't mean to call you out, Freke. I mention you as an example of someone who anti-enables in a really admirable way, spending a lot of time and care in creating well thought-out posts that are really designed to help people see their own situations more clearly.

 

[NovemberBride]

How wrong am *I* that I really really really want to break out the "I TOLD YOU SO" chestnut from time to time. I don't, of course. Guess that just means I'm WAY too invested in the soap opera aspect of long-time-PS-ing. So I'll take the embarrassment that comes with that.

Oh, I find myself thinking "I told you so" all the time on PS. It's hard not to, because in some of these situations not only is the writing on the wall, it's on the wall in capital letters and bright red paint. However, I would never post an "I told you so" because I think that would cross the line over to being mean, which I try not to do (and I rarely see I told you so posts although I know I am not the only one thinking it, so I have to imagine others are holding back as well). There would be nothing to be gained by doing so, and I don't believe in kicking people when they are down.

 

[galeteia]

In my (somewhat off-and-on) experience, PSers are generally very conscientious about discouraging people from purchasing outside their means. Any mention of buying on credit, for example, is shot down with posters advising the OP to wait and save up their money so they may buy a 'luxury good' with the equivalent of cash, and to NEVER put it on credit. Don't buy a diamond you can't afford, and if you really want out outside your means, wait until you have the means to purchase it outright.

As for LIW, I have tried to post there more often since Gypsy's admonishment about 'giving back' to the newbies. I agree with her, and as much as it pains me to see X thread repeated for the umpteenth time, it's the first time the OP has posted it and they deserve a reply. However, I still cannot bear to read yet ANOTHER thread where some poor girl is upset over her deadbeat boyfriend dragging his heels in procuring a proposal that will never come. If you are on PS long enough, the signs are glaring, and you can only sugarcoat WAKE UP HONEY HE DOESN'T WANT TO MARRY YOU so many time before you give up in exhaustion.

 

[qtiekiki]

I always enable for shopping, well because I never came across a thread where financial info were given. I just assume people are asking because they can afford it. I don't usually comment on relationship thread since more-often-than-not the advices fall on deaf ear anyways. And it's not my job to keep track of anyone's history (financial, relationship, what-nots), so I don't refer back to the another thread where someone mentioned something. At the end of the day, we are all adults and responsible for our choices. I hope no one is seriously hoping that a bunch of internet strangers will come together for an intervention.