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To drop Colour or Clarity by one?

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schrum

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Messages
19
Hello,

I am planning to buy a 2.3 - 2.6ct round brilliant as follows:

H- I
VS2 - SI2
Very Good to Excellent cut

Questions is .... whether to go from H to I or to go from SI1 to SI2 ? or could drop weight to get an H, SI1.

Fyi the stone will be set in a plat or white gold solitaire setting.

Anyone with views - please let me know ....

Thanks - this site really rocks - nice to be able to get some info on these subjects !!!

Thanks.
Michael
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
This is a difficult question to answer. It will really depends on the stone. Sometimes SI inclusions are visible to the naked eye, and sometimes they are not. It is possible to find an eye clean SI2 (though harder with larger stones) -- but not all SI2s will be eye clean. If you can find one, I say get the H SI2 -- assuming you can find one with an excellent cut.
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
In an excellent cut stone, you won't be able to tell
the difference between an H to I.

Clarity is tougher as in larger stones, inclusions tend
to be a bit more noticeable. Have your vendor loupe and eyeball the diamond for you and apprise you of the location, color, and nature of the inclusions.
There are SI-2's that are absolutely eye-clean and the fact that the diamond you're
considering is of excellent
cut helps you in that such a cut tends to "mask" inclusions. If this is the case with the diamond you're
considering, you can even safely go with an I/SI-2
in the platinum setting and come out with a face-up
'white' gorgeous ring.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
I would suggest any combo that lets you keep an I/SI1 or better. Then you stay out of the murky, gray area that people argue over all the time- whether a stone is a "true" SI2 or really an I1. There's big bucks involved in that area, and you lose everytime if the stone even hints that its going to stray into I1 territory.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
I agree..get a well cut I color (which will face up whiter than an average cut I color) and stay with an SI1 clarity grading. There is such a murky area as Rich suggests between SI1/SI2/I1 and the larger the stone, the more visible inclusions can be. Personally for a 2c stone or above I would not go under SI1 and would make sure its 100% eye clean with no doubts.
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Sorry, Have to disagree with you guys.
The fact is, if Michael is working with
a vendor who can eyeball and describe
the stone to him, he then has a lot
more flexibility and options than
staying strictly with SI-1. SI-2
is a viable candidate, and yes, there are I-1's
that face-up eye-clean. Price differential can be
significant, so it pays to go into this with an
open mind.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

schrum

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Messages
19
All,

First of all - thank you for your opinions and replies. I appreciate it is a difficult choice (and potentially expensive). Since I am not an expert in this area, I was really interested in the discussion about the "I" clarity. After reading your responses I would now tend more towards the "I" "SI1", however I have one more piece of information to add.

The H SI2 stone has already been set before. I am not sure if this makes any difference to the discussion. Also, since the stone has already been set (ex. estate), would that open up some additional 'negotiation' opportunities / angles, or would the vendors tend to be firm on the price of 'ex estate' pieces ?

Final question - is there any guarantee that an SI1 is '100% eyeclean' (specific types of certs ? or would only a vendor know ? - is it typically only black carbon deposits, which cause an SI1 / SI2 to be 'unclean' or typically all types of issues ?

Thanks again to everyone - the information will really make a difference to me (and the girlie. .. I hope).

Michael
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
just my 2cents.

I have a 3c stone that is "I" SI1 (the jeweler thought it to be more of a GIA SI2 - the price reflected this so I didn't worry). "Eye clean" in a stone this size *is* possible; but not probable. But, to what degree one sees inclusions is more important. If I look in certain lights without my corrective lenses tilting the stone a certain way, I *can * see the inclusion. My spin, I find that comforting. I know its *my* stone. That said, SI stones can be a great buy. If I had to do it all over again, I would go SI all day long. People are shocked when I tell them my stone is SI. The perception being that SI's have a bunch of visible junk. When in fact, that is not the case.

Regarding color, I could see body color in one "I" stone I viewed. I do not see body color in my stone even when I tilt it. My stone is well cut & has medium/strong bl. Fluor. It is set in platinum w/ better color baguettes on the side. Again, no detection of yellow.

My end point - I SI's can be tricky. One must be very selective & have confidence in the dealer's opinion. That said, stones in this range *are* a very good deal. Ironically, my budget was significantly more. I'm glad I could save the money & see no visible difference.

One more recomendation, buy a well cut stone that has at least medium blue fluoresence.
Good luck.
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Michael;

There are no guarantees in anything.

SI's run the gamut from being totally eye-clean to being easily
visible without magnification.
What you need to find out from the seller is the location, color,
and type of inclusions in this diamond.
White carbon spots whether nested or feathers are less likely to be
eye-visible. Inclusions on the periphery are preferable
to those located in the center or in the pavillion area
which oftentimes have a tendency to reflect and
give the diamond the appearence of having many more inclusions than actually exist. Find out if any of the inclusions break the surface plane
of the diamond. These are dangerous and signal structural problems
which can become a big headache for you down the road.
If there are any inclusions at or near the girdle area, check
to see if the girdle at that spot is very thin; if it is this
indicates that the cutter did some surgery to contain a
problem and still save weight.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 
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