Tiffany's Victoria Bracelet Replica

[galatie]

Hi all,

I am interested in replicating the Tiffany's Victoria bracelet and will have it done either by IDJ or a local jeweller who has come recommended to me here in Singapore.

Please see pictures below of examples that they have sent over to me:






Can I ask which vendor do you think does the better just replicating this particular piece?

I believe the prices for both would be similar.

Thank you!!!!

 

[tyty333]

How would you advise us on evaluating a "local jeweller who has come recommended" to you in Singapore?

Are you looking to know whether we would recommend IDJ to do the work?

"Please see pictures below of examples that they have sent over to me:" Who has sent them to you? Singapore jeweller?
Is that an example of their work?

 

[galatie]

Thanks, sorry for the confusion.

The first picture is work that the local jeweller has done. Alot of friends have recommended them to me so I am pretty confident that the craftmanship will be good, but have never used them before, and am a bit apprehensive.

The second picture is work that IDJ has done to replicate this particular piece. I have used IDJ before and was pleased with their work. The only issue is that I am based in Singapore, so to work alongside the vendor in this project would be easier if they are locally based. In addition, it helps in case I need to do any adjustments, alterations, or returns, etc. I would definitely use IDJ if I were still living in NYC, but alas, not the case anymore.

I think the main difference to me between the two bracelets is the design of the prong or metal that is between the flower and stone?

 

[WillyDiamond]

Wondering if the Tiffany piece is patented.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Wondering if the Tiffany piece is patented.

I doubt that the Victoria line can be patented - four Marquis flowers have been around for ages, well before Tiffany was doing it.

Besides most places cant/wont exactly copy it perfectly (in terms of the dimensions of the marquises, prong shape and placement, angle of the baskets and stones etc).

IMO this is generic enough that getting an “inspired by” version is totally fine, but that’s my opinion.

 

[tyty333]

Ah, got it! Do you have any more pictures (or can they send more) of the local jeweler's bracelet? I would want to work locally, but
the round brilliants in the IDJ bracelet look like they are cut better (from the few I can see). That is why I would like to see
more pics of the local bracelet.

The IDJ bracelet looks* nicer (in my mind) but mainly because it's a better picture. It is much easier to evaluate than the local
jewelers bracelet.

 

[lovedogs]

I think the IDJ one looks nicer and more delicate. And I agree that this design is so common that's it's not a replica, but an "inspired by".

 

[MissGotRocks]

I too prefer the picture of the IDJ bracelet. Looks more defined. It really just depends on your preference as neither of them are exact replicas. To that end, you can design the bracelet any way you want it to look.

 

[WillyDiamond]

I doubt that the Victoria line can be patented - four Marquis flowers have been around for ages, well before Tiffany was doing it.

Besides most places cant/wont exactly copy it perfectly (in terms of the dimensions of the marquises, prong shape and placement, angle of the baskets and stones etc).

IMO this is generic enough that getting an “inspired by” version is totally fine, but that’s my opinion.

Yes it is patented. See below from Tiffany website page:

Tiffany Victoria® Bracelets​

The “R” in the circle shows they have a patent.

 

[lulu_ma]

Yes it is patented. See below from Tiffany website page:

Tiffany Victoria® Bracelets​

The “R” in the circle shows they have a patent.

Actually, the "R" indicates that the name "Tiffany Victoria" is trademarked for jewelry and sunglasses.

Trademark Details For TIFFANY VICTORIA (Serial Number 86581651)

TIFFANY VICTORIA is a trademark of TIFFANY (NJ) LLC Filed in 1427673600, the TIFFANY VICTORIA covers Eyewear; sunglasses; . Jewelry;

huski.ai

https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86581651&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Yes it is patented. See below from Tiffany website page:

Tiffany Victoria® Bracelets​

The “R” in the circle shows they have a patent.

What I meant is that they can’t copyright or patent the design itself as it was an existing design before Tiffany launched the Victoria line. Victoria was launched in the late 90s IIRC and the 4 marquise flower design was around well before that. My granddad had a pair of cufflinks like that in the 70s or 80s. The name can be patented though, as lulu_ma said.

 

[galatie]

Thanks everyone for all of the advice so far.

You are right, I think the most suitable word for this project would be inspired, not replicated, apologies.

I asked the local jeweller if he had any more pictures of the piece, but he does not, unfortunately, which does make me feel slightly uneasy but he does come really well recommended here.

Also, I should clarify further. The IDJ bracelet pictured above (which is the second picture), has been made with lab grown diamonds, not natural. For this bracelet, they have quoted me 6k for 5.70ctw of lab-grown diamonds, color E, clarity VS1. If you were to opt for the same bracelet with earth-mined diamonds, the color would drop slightly to F, with the clarity remaining at VS1, and the price would be $24,000, which is not within my budget. Note that the first pic is made from the local jeweller using natural diamonds.

So therefore, I am thinking of choosing between having the bracelet made with the below:

1. locally recommended jeweller, 6.5 inches length with 80 pcs marquise diamonds – 3.79cts & 20 pcs round natural diamonds – 2.22cts, for 11,200 USD.

2. IDJ bracelet, 5.70ctw of lab-grown diamonds, color E, clarity VS1, for 6,000 USD

Which would you choose?

Please see below a picture of the actual bracelet from the Tiffany's store:



Thank you!!!

 

[MissGotRocks]

I would always choose natural but that doesn’t mean it is the right choice for you. Do you value size or lab vs. natural? If one of these attributes is more important to you than another, you might have your answer.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

What is the colour and clarity of the stones used by the local jeweller? I think maybe I missed that?

I feel like the local jeweller’s bracelet has a higher caratage and is at less than half the price of IDJ natural which definitely sways me. Also because Singapore isn’t cheap for jewellery by any means so why is the IDJ one THAT much more expensive?

So I would look at the colour and clarity, and also the gold purity and weight of both bracelets to first see if the comparison is apples to apples. Then you can see how much of the difference can be attributed to labour.

FWIW, personally I am totally fine going down to G or H for small stones like this. but you will have to gauge your own sensitivity to colour. I personally would want a bracelet either in gold (18kt preferred but I could go down to 14kt) or platinum.

I personally am not a fan of lab grown diamonds so I wouldn’t go for them, but if you’re comfortable I would find out more about whether 6k is an acceptable price for LGDs. To me, it seems high but US has high labour costs.

 

[galatie]

What is the colour and clarity of the stones used by the local jeweller? I think maybe I missed that?

I feel like the local jeweller’s bracelet has a higher caratage and is at less than half the price of IDJ natural which definitely sways me. Also because Singapore isn’t cheap for jewellery by any means so why is the IDJ one THAT much more expensive?

So I would look at the colour and clarity, and also the gold purity and weight of both bracelets to first see if the comparison is apples to apples. Then you can see how much of the difference can be attributed to labour.

FWIW, personally I am totally fine going down to G or H for small stones like this. but you will have to gauge your own sensitivity to colour. I personally would want a bracelet either in gold (18kt preferred but I could go down to 14kt) or platinum.

I personally am not a fan of lab grown diamonds so I wouldn’t go for them, but if you’re comfortable I would find out more about whether 6k is an acceptable price for LGDs. To me, it seems high but US has high labour costs.

Thank you. The stones at the local jeweller would be 80 mq diamonds at 0.048 each in carat and 20 round brilliant at 0.11 each, all F, VVS/VS, no flrsnt, total weight would be 6 carat.

I am waiting to hear back about the weight of the bracelet.

The local place said they think it would be better to do it in 18k white gold as it's stronger and better for diamond settings, platinum catches dents and scratches very fast, do you have any advice on platinum for white gold for the metal?

I also inquired at another local jeweller about this project and they gave me a similar quote to the first local place, so I am kind of wondering why the IDJ quote was 24k for natural diamonds, given that Singapore as well is not a cheap place for diamonds!

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Thank you. The stones at the local jeweller would be 80 mq diamonds at 0.048 each in carat and 20 round brilliant at 0.11 each, all F, VVS/VS, no flrsnt, total weight would be 6 carat.

I am waiting to hear back about the weight of the bracelet.

The local place said they think it would be better to do it in 18k white gold as it's stronger and better for diamond settings, platinum catches dents and scratches very fast, do you have any advice on platinum for white gold for the metal?

I also inquired at another local jeweller about this project and they gave me a similar quote to the first local place, so I am kind of wondering why the IDJ quote was 24k for natural diamonds, given that Singapore as well is not a cheap place for diamonds!

Personally I prefer 18k white gold over platinum. I find it more comfortable and I dislike the look of patina. F VS/VVS would be totally fine for me, comfort wise.

I live in India so I can’t comment on prices, except to say that 24k is an ABSURD price for that bracelet where I’m at. 11.2k is far more palatable.

 

[galatie]

Personally I prefer 18k white gold over platinum. I find it more comfortable and I dislike the look of patina. F VS/VVS would be totally fine for me, comfort wise.

I live in India so I can’t comment on prices, except to say that 24k is an ABSURD price for that bracelet where I’m at. 11.2k is far more palatable.

Thank you, this is really so super helpful!

I am waiting to find out the weight of the bracelet.

Are there any other questions that you think I should be ask during the design process?

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Thank you, this is really so super helpful!

I am waiting to find out the weight of the bracelet.

Are there any other questions that you think I should be ask during the design process?

Is it possible for you to see a completed bracelet (even if it's a different caratage or design)? You'll only know if you're comfortable with the quality of the work if you can see it for yourself, imo.

I'll also try and see some stones in person, so you can see whether they're cut well, actually F colour etc.

 

[galatie]

Is it possible for you to see a completed bracelet (even if it's a different caratage or design)? You'll only know if you're comfortable with the quality of the work if you can see it for yourself, imo.

I'll also try and see some stones in person, so you can see whether they're cut well, actually F colour etc.

Thank you!

I actually contacted another local jeweller today who was recommended to me, just to get a price comparison.

They have never made this particular piece before but they said the design is pretty simple and they can do it for 9k, USD, which is not a bad price! All of the stones would be F+ and VS+, I will go into their showroom sometime this week to have a more in depth discussion.

They have made the other Tiffany's Victoria bracelet before, see pics below.



The shape of the 4 marquise diamonds looks a bit off to me, but maybe this is the look that the purchaser wanted? Other than that, what do you think of the craftsmanship?

Thank you for all of your help!

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Thank you!

I actually contacted another local jeweller today who was recommended to me, just to get a price comparison.

They have never made this particular piece before but they said the design is pretty simple and they can do it for 9k, USD, which is not a bad price! All of the stones would be F+ and VS+, I will go into their showroom sometime this week to have a more in depth discussion.

They have made the other Tiffany's Victoria bracelet before, see pics below.



The shape of the 4 marquise diamonds looks a bit off to me, but maybe this is the look that the purchaser wanted? Other than that, what do you think of the craftsmanship?

Thank you for all of your help!

Bit difficult to tell what the craftsmanship looks like in this picture but I agree that the clasp looks weird. I've never seen the Tiffany Victoria but I assume they do a better job of disguising the clasp.

Go and see it in person. To be frank, for a piece like this where the stones don't really have huge intrinsic store of value I would want to save as much as possible.

So I did some googling for you and found that Tiffany uses approx ~17.9g of platinum (unsure if its 90 or 95 platinum) in their Victoria bracelet that has ~6.25ct of diamonds in it. So assuming the jeweller who quoted you 9k for your bracelet will use a similar amount of 18kt WG that Tiffany does 90/95 plat; at today's spot prices that's approx 1300USD in gold in that bracelet. So it's approx 7.7k USD for diamonds and labour. Now you'll have to estimate what those diamonds would cost. I used K Rosengart to get a rough idea and ended up with a price of approx USD900 a carat. That would mean your diamonds would come to approx 5400USD. This means the labour is around 2300USD. This would still be high for India but I think it's what I'd expect overseas.

 

[galatie]

Thank you, all.

I went back to the jeweller today and discussed the bracelet.

1. They would recommend getting it set in platinum over white gold as platinum scratches more but white gold tarnishes more - it would be the same price - would you recommend one metal over the other?
2. The round diamonds on the bracelet will be 10 pointers each, these will not be certified diamonds, I think they mentioned that most diamonds are only certified if they are .30 pointers or a similar size? Can someone confirm?
3. the marquise diamonds will be F+, VS+ quality. Marquise diamonds are never graded as excellent, this cut only applies to solitaires? Can someone confirm?
4. We discussed if I wanted to make any changes from the original. One possible change is to make the prongs more delicate, as they are quite chunky, please see picture below. Would you keep the prongs similar? Another option is to keep the prongs in the same style as the Tiffany one, and I could have them trimmed down if I don't like the look. Would you make any other changes?

Any advise on this project would be wonderful, thank you!!!

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Thank you, all.

I went back to the jeweller today and discussed the bracelet.

1. They would recommend getting it set in platinum over white gold as platinum scratches more but white gold tarnishes more - it would be the same price - would you recommend one metal over the other?
2. The round diamonds on the bracelet will be 10 pointers each, these will not be certified diamonds, I think they mentioned that most diamonds are only certified if they are .30 pointers or a similar size? Can someone confirm?
3. the marquise diamonds will be F+, VS+ quality. Marquise diamonds are never graded as excellent, this cut only applies to solitaires? Can someone confirm?
4. We discussed if I wanted to make any changes from the original. One possible change is to make the prongs more delicate, as they are quite chunky, please see picture below. Would you keep the prongs similar? Another option is to keep the prongs in the same style as the Tiffany one, and I could have them trimmed down if I don't like the look. Would you make any other changes?

Any advise on this project would be wonderful, thank you!!!

I think the decision of WG vs platinum basically comes down to personal choice. I keep my WG pieces rhodium plated (and get it redone occasionally) so I don’t see the tarnishing. Platinum will feel weighty and solid on your wrist, but it will also patina. Both are “good materials” so I don’t think it matters which one you choose.

I think the absolute minimum size of certification is something like 23 points. But in practice I wouldn’t bother certifying a stone <50 points. It adds way too much to the cost for no reason. As long as your jeweller can confirm that they are all natural stones (my jeweller has a machine in his store that can do that) I wouldn’t be concerned. Besides, a 10pt stone can’t be certified anyway.

For peace of mind you can request your jeweller to get an IGI finished jewellery report made for your bracelet if you like, which will give you an independent check on the colour/clarity and also if they’re all natural stones. But it’s not necessary. My jeweller does this now for all high value pieces though so I suggested it.

Correct, a cut grade is given only to round diamonds.

I am a big fan of delicate claw prongs and that’s what I always try and get for my jewellery. If claws are impractical I would do as delicate and unobtrusive button prongs as possible.

I think one of the pictures you shared had a bit of a clumsily hidden clasp - I’d ask the jeweller to try and make the clasp better hidden. That’s the only thing that jumped out at me. If they say that they can’t conceal the clasp better behind the 4 marquise stones of that size, I’d size up the marquises in the clasp, just to ensure the clasp is completely hidden.

 

[tyty333]

@AllAboardTheBlingTrain answered your questions....one thing I might ask is if you can see and "approve" the stones before
they are set? Just want to make sure there are no surprises concerning cut/color/clarity. Worth an ask.