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Tiffany serial numbers? Process of authentication?

Circe

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Would any of y'all happen to know how Tiffany's numbering system works/worked? I just bought a vintage necklace from a dealer who dates it to the 60s-70s, and something about the style and workmanship is making me wonder if it might be older - it looks very Egyptian Revival to me. It apparently has a serial number - 6809 - so once it arrives, I'm planning on taking it to Tiffany's to have it authenticated, but in the meantime, curiosity is eating me alive! Anybody have any inside knowledge? Anybody been through the process of authenticating? Thanks!

P.S. - A few pics - whadda ya think? I absolutely love the workmanship on the clasp ....

estate-tiffany-co-egyptian-link-necklace-gold-turquoise.jpg

estate-tiffany-co-egyptian-link-necklace-gold-turquoise2.jpg
 

JewelFreak

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Circe -- it does look more like the 20s or 30s, but could be a retro design.

I have never heard of Tiffany putting serial numbers on their jewelry. When I worked there people frequently came in wi/stuff they'd bought on eBay or elsewhere & asked for authentication. Sometimes they wanted to return it for a refund, even though they didn't buy it at Tiffany's! (And usually it was fake.)

Here's a link to Tiffany's reply to a serial no. question a couple months ago: http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=48713703067&topic=18641 They state too that they do not use them on their jewelry.

The number could mean something else, though I'm not sure what. (925 on their silver means it's 92.5% silver, for instance.) If you bought it where I think you did, the store has a superb reputation, so I doubt it's Faux Tiffany.

The only way to be sure is to take it to Tiff's. They will send it to NYC & in forever, you'll get it back w/whatever info they can provide. I think I read there's a charge now, something like $50, for authentication research.

It's a lovely necklace, Tiff or not, beautiful to wear!

--- Laurie
 

Circe

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JewelFreak, I actually snickered - where did they think they were, Home Depot? Good lord ....

I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that Tiffany's did use serial numbers, back in the day, and possibly that they re-numbered at some point ... but I'm damned if I can remember where I read it! Appreciate the link, though - given their sheer mass today, it would be insane to expect them to continue the practice. The serial numbers would be longer than the chains!

I'm definitely planning to take it in: as well as getting it authenticated, I'd like to have a few links taken off: right now it's at 16", so I figure if I take off three links or so, I'll have a comfortably choker-length piece, as well as ... earrings? A bracelet? Something. :rodent:

It's due to arrive tomorrow - overnight shipping from Betteridge! - and I plan to take many, many pictures. Thanks for the tips and the compliment!
 

JewelFreak

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Betteridge knows their stuff, so if they say it's Tiff, you can pretty much take that to the bank. Have you been to the store IRL? Wonderful fun. They're one of the top jewelers in the country; no bargains to be had but you know what you buy there is good. I met Terry B. when we lived in town, nice guy. They had an estate Cartier Tutti Frutti bracelet in their window at one point, for quite a while before someone coughed up & bought it. Only one I've seen real -- SO much more beautiful than photos. I used to stare at that for what felt like hours, have never forgotten it -- same way you feel when you see a magnificent painting or ballet or other work of art.

When you get info from Tiffany, please let me know what they say! Pretty necklace -- earrings from the leftovers would be super! Probably won't be enough for a bracelet, would you think? I'm sure they wouldn't have used serial or pattern nos. in the 60s, etc., except maybe on flatware or holloware. Could be wrong, hard as it is to imagine. :saint: At that time the co. belonged to Hoving Inc., owner of Bonwit Teller. Anyway -- I'm really interested to hear what they say. Their old stuff is marvelous, new stuff, meh.

Smart girl to snap that necklace up when you had the chance!

--- Laurie
 

Circe

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It's here, it's here! Fedex rang the bell while I was breakfasting on truffles (admittedly, last night's leftover pasta al tartufo, but, hey), and I have to admit, I felt very luxe! :devil:

So!

a) In person, I love it: I'm a blue-eyed blonde, and I feel like it goes v. nicely with my complexion.

b) more to the point, it's beautifully made: the turquoise is top-notch.

c) I'm really stumped on dating it, and I cannot for the life of me find where it would be "numbered" ... well, anything! I can see the Tiffany hallmark, but that's all, folks: have e-mailed them to ask. The one thing that does still make me lean towards an earlier date is the clasp: all of my high-end Deco pieces have those sorts of complex safety clasps with the spikes, but I've never seen one on a piece past the 40s. That's not to say it couldn't be done, just that it seems to have fallen out of fashion. Experts, your thoughts?

d) what do you think of the length on me? I'm still tempted to have it taken up to sit more like a choker, but I also rather like this length ....

Turquoise necklace 022.jpg

Turquoise necklace 024.jpg

Turquoise necklace 023.jpg
 

Circe

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And the neck-shots: am thinking I will probably wear it with and without the diamond pendant, though I'd probably swap to a matching gold chain on the days when I paired them up.

Turquoise necklace PS3.jpg

Turquoise necklace PS2.jpg

Turquoise necklace PS1.jpg
 

slg47

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I like the length on you! I think it's a beautiful piece :)
 

westjenn

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Beautiful necklace! I just went through something similar- bought a Tiffany & Co. ring off of Ebay and took it to T&Co for a Valuation Report. Since I could not tell them the date of purchase or who the original purchaser was they said they had to charge me $200.00 for a new Valuation report in my name. If you do know the original date of purchase and purchasers name they will do this service free of charge.

Good luck finding more info on your necklace!
 

JewelFreak

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It's SO PRETTY, Circe! I wouldn't shorten it -- it's a great length. And I do agree with you; it looks more like the 20s or 30s to me, both in workmanship & because of that clasp. I've never seen that on pieces from their estimate of the 60s or later, ever, from any maker. I think Betteridge mis-called that one. I just love the little links -- so beautifully styled & detailed.

You could email photos to Tiff's in NYC, Archives or whatever they call it -- and at least ask in what time period that necklace was made. Maybe they can give you that info w/out a major charge, and you wouldn't have to be without the necklace while they researched.

Great buy! A coup, I'll say. Let me know what you find out!!!

--- Laurie
 

Circe

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slg47|1314830208|3006785 said:
I like the length on you! I think it's a beautiful piece :)

Thanks, SLG! The more I think about it possibly being an antique, the more tempted I am to keep it as is ... and I think the length is growing on me!

westjenn said:
Beautiful necklace! I just went through something similar- bought a Tiffany & Co. ring off of Ebay and took it to T&Co for a Valuation Report. Since I could not tell them the date of purchase or who the original purchaser was they said they had to charge me $200.00 for a new Valuation report in my name. If you do know the original date of purchase and purchasers name they will do this service free of charge.

Good luck finding more info on your necklace!

Thanks, WestJenn! Could I ask, was your ring a vintage piece? I'm just nervous that they might charge more yet if it's something they have to go digging in their archives for, as opposed to something they can look up via the serial # on a diamond, or the like ....

JewelFreak said:
It's SO PRETTY, Circe! I wouldn't shorten it -- it's a great length. And I do agree with you; it looks more like the 20s or 30s to me, both in workmanship & because of that clasp. I've never seen that on pieces from their estimate of the 60s or later, ever, from any maker. I think Betteridge mis-called that one. I just love the little links -- so beautifully styled & detailed.

You could email photos to Tiff's in NYC, Archives or whatever they call it -- and at least ask in what time period that necklace was made. Maybe they can give you that info w/out a major charge, and you wouldn't have to be without the necklace while they researched.

Great buy! A coup, I'll say. Let me know what you find out!!!

--- Laurie

Thanks, Laurie! I'm glad to have the confirmation - I was wondering if I was blowing a coincidence out of proportion re: the clasp!

I've been looking online, but haven't had any luck in finding an address for Tiffany's Archives - the only thing on their website is their "Valuation" page which recommends bringing the piece in directly. Bah! But Betteridge's did e-mail me back about the serial number - if you look at the pic I took of the back of the clasp, see those faint scratches? They're actually numbers! They have a sharp-eyed evaluator on staff to have spotted that ....

Looking through my art history jewelry books, I did find some references to Louis Comfort Tiffany making Egyptian inspired jewelry from 1910 through the official Egyptian Revival. And they DID use serial numbers back then, apparently, although they had letters before them ,which this doesn't (unless that first 6 is actually a messy ... G?). So I think I'm definitely curious enough to go to the trouble of inquiring. Will keep y'all updated - and if anybody else reading has any additional info, don't be shy!
 

westjenn

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My ring isn't vintage, it's a ring they currently carry in the store. It's easily recognizable as a T&CO piece and stamped with the T&CO mark, so they agreed to size it without any exisiting documentation (But of course they still charged to size it as well... $65.00)
I'm curious to hear about what you find out- I hope that you get info soon!
For sizing my ring was sent to NY for laser sizing-- if I had waited for the valuation report it would have taken an additional 3 weeks--- so as another posted noted, it will take quite a while to get your piece back.. but is worth it in this situation I would think :love:
Circe|1314893792|3007465 said:
slg47|1314830208|3006785 said:
I like the length on you! I think it's a beautiful piece :)

Thanks, SLG! The more I think about it possibly being an antique, the more tempted I am to keep it as is ... and I think the length is growing on me!

westjenn said:
Beautiful necklace! I just went through something similar- bought a Tiffany & Co. ring off of Ebay and took it to T&Co for a Valuation Report. Since I could not tell them the date of purchase or who the original purchaser was they said they had to charge me $200.00 for a new Valuation report in my name. If you do know the original date of purchase and purchasers name they will do this service free of charge.

Good luck finding more info on your necklace!

Thanks, WestJenn! Could I ask, was your ring a vintage piece? I'm just nervous that they might charge more yet if it's something they have to go digging in their archives for, as opposed to something they can look up via the serial # on a diamond, or the like ....

JewelFreak said:
It's SO PRETTY, Circe! I wouldn't shorten it -- it's a great length. And I do agree with you; it looks more like the 20s or 30s to me, both in workmanship & because of that clasp. I've never seen that on pieces from their estimate of the 60s or later, ever, from any maker. I think Betteridge mis-called that one. I just love the little links -- so beautifully styled & detailed.

You could email photos to Tiff's in NYC, Archives or whatever they call it -- and at least ask in what time period that necklace was made. Maybe they can give you that info w/out a major charge, and you wouldn't have to be without the necklace while they researched.

Great buy! A coup, I'll say. Let me know what you find out!!!

--- Laurie

Thanks, Laurie! I'm glad to have the confirmation - I was wondering if I was blowing a coincidence out of proportion re: the clasp!

I've been looking online, but haven't had any luck in finding an address for Tiffany's Archives - the only thing on their website is their "Valuation" page which recommends bringing the piece in directly. Bah! But Betteridge's did e-mail me back about the serial number - if you look at the pic I took of the back of the clasp, see those faint scratches? They're actually numbers! They have a sharp-eyed evaluator on staff to have spotted that ....

Looking through my art history jewelry books, I did find some references to Louis Comfort Tiffany making Egyptian inspired jewelry from 1910 through the official Egyptian Revival. And they DID use serial numbers back then, apparently, although they had letters before them ,which this doesn't (unless that first 6 is actually a messy ... G?). So I think I'm definitely curious enough to go to the trouble of inquiring. Will keep y'all updated - and if anybody else reading has any additional info, don't be shy!
 

jewelerman

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this necklace/collar is so cool! this is exactly my style! i believe your piece is later 1970s for 2 reasons.1-There was a huge revival in Egyptian styled jewelry because of the King Tut exhibit that was going across the united states in 1976-1977.It was huge and both costume jewelry companies and high end companies made the style chic again.2-There was a huge demand for turquoise in the 70s and also yellow gold was in demand again with the young and hip designers.
 

jewelerman

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please don't shorten it!its the perfect length to lay on your neck correctly and im a purist and don't believe in altering high end jewels...this length would have been popular in the 1970s.I also think it should be worn on its own and im sure you are aware that turquoise need the same care as pearls...no perfume ,lotions,hairspray or moisture...and its soft so it will be scratched by other harder gems and metals rubbing on it(as would the soft 18karat gold)I love anything Egyptian inspired or turquoise!
 

jewelerman

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looking at the clasp,its appears modern to me and Ive seen this style of pieced fold over safety clasps on only more modern necklaces and not on older ones.im very curious what Tiffany says about this piece!
 

JewelFreak

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Interesting info, Jewelerman, esp. about the Egyptian Revival revival! And I never thought of LC Tiffany, Circe -- good detective work. Will be great to hear what they say about it.

--- Laurie
 

canuk-gal

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HI:

I saw this necklace and adored it! I, too, wondered about how one could get authentication.

I look great at the length it is. Wear it in health.

cheers--Sharon
 

LGK

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My first thought was that I'd seen... somewhat... similar pieces from the '60s & '70s also- the yellow gold + turquoise was what made me think that I believe. It's a lot more delicate than most '70s turquoise jewelry however, and more classic in appearance for sure. I think the length is absolutely frigging *perfect* as it is! It frames your neck beautifully. What a find :appl: :appl: :appl:
 

Circe

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Moving makes Circe an absentee poster - but what a lot of lovely information to come back to!

Westjenn, thanks! I'm starting to be swayed by the various calls to leave it as-is, but it's great to have a ballpark idea of what alterations might potentially cost.

Jewelerman, I had no idea there was a Tut exhibition in the 70s that revived interest in all things Egyptian! I'm pretty good when it comes to jewelry styles 1950 and prior, but the 60s and 70s are as the void to me. Will definitely keep the care for turquoise in mind - I think wearing the longer chain with it should be all right, as the chain, a) falls beneath the collar, and, b) will definitely be an 18K chain. Like I said to WJ, y'all are talking me into keeping it as-is! After wearing it for the weekend, the length has definitely grown on me.

Jewelfreak - further research indicates its unlikely to LCT (he signed all his pieces with his full name, not the family name), so between that little factoid and Jewelerman and LGK's observations re: the 70s, it's looking more and more likely to be exactly what it was advertised as! But I am still curious what Tiffany's will say.

Canuk-Gal - thanks, and will do! I'm so easy. :razz:

LGK - Okay, I need to figure out a good jewelry book about the 70s! I've seen a lot of chunky Native American influenced turquoise jewelry from the 60s and 70s, and a few really heavy "nugget" style pieces, but never anything lie this - if there's more out there, I might have to start collecting it! Thanks for the compliments - I'm convinced, I'm keeping it as is. :mrgreen:
 

jewelerman

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Circe,
my early years in jewelry were in the 1970s so i have a soft spot were these styles are concerned...yes there was a huge demand for Native American jewelry in the late 60s until the later 1970s(i love the stuff because im from the western states) ,but there were many trends that were big while people wore and collected American Indian jewelry...art deco was revived in and about 1974 to the early 80s,ethnic jewelry that had its influences from Africa in the early to mid 70s,Art Nouveau revival was huge through out the 70s,yellow gold once again became popular because of the neck chain craze that lasted from early 70s well into the late 80s.Victorian revival and cameos or large lockets were a rage from the late 60s to the mid 70s. The sleek modern free form fluid look that got its roots in the 50s flourished in the early 70s and then again in the later 70s due to great jewelry designers like Elsa Peretti at Tiffany and Robert Lee Morris.There also was the organic back to nature jewelry that used Pukka shells(David Cassidy made them popular in about 1974), sea shells, wood beads ,jute rope,raw coral , and wearing multiple wood bangles were popular until the early 1980s.in the 70s many trends came from pop culture and movies...disco chains became mainstream from Saturday night live in 77-78,The way we were in 74 for art deco,pukka shell necklace from David Cassidy on the Partridge family in about 74.Romeo and Juliet for Victorian revival in 1968.
 

Circe

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Well, I finally dropped the necklace off today: the nice man at Tiffany's expressed some doubt about it being a 70s piece (he didn't think 18K was being used at the time, which makes me wonder about when 18K came into fashion, and when its popularity might have dipped ... hm). Soooo ... I guess now I wait with baited breath for two weeks to see what they say!

One nice thing: apparently, they only charge for the valuation report if they can provide one (i.e., believe the piece to be theirs and can provide a reasonable estimate of what it would cost to replace): otherwise, there's no charge. Good to know! It really would be insult added to injury to be charged for the knowledge that a piece was a fake ....
 

jewelerman

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GOOD! Ive been waiting to hear whats up with your necklace!(i need a life outside of PriceScope :bigsmile: 0) I'm surprised at the sales persons statement about 18 karat gold.Tiffany & company has always carried jewelry in both 18karat and 14karat gold.They may have made more pieces in 14 karat because of the rising cost of gold in the 70s but they would not stop using 18kt. all together because that would severely limit their market both inside and out of the united states.In their catalog 10 years ago they have pieces that are 14kt. when gold was less expensive and the same pieces today are done only in 18karat gold and even though gold is crazy expensive they don't offer them in 14kt! go figure? i cant wait to hear what they say about your necklace!
 

Clio

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I'm looking forward to hearing the outcome, as well. It's such a pretty piece.
 

canuk-gal

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Circe|1316654397|3022558 said:
Well, I finally dropped the necklace off today: the nice man at Tiffany's expressed some doubt about it being a 70s piece (he didn't think 18K was being used at the time, which makes me wonder about when 18K came into fashion, and when its popularity might have dipped ... hm). Soooo ... I guess now I wait with baited breath for two weeks to see what they say!

One nice thing: apparently, they only charge for the valuation report if they can provide one (i.e., believe the piece to be theirs and can provide a reasonable estimate of what it would cost to replace): otherwise, there's no charge. Good to know! It really would be insult added to injury to be charged for the knowledge that a piece was a fake ....
HI:

Interesting. Look forward to hearing the outcome. Will you keep it if it isn't 'Tiffany"? What is the sellers return policy?

cheers--Sharon
 

Circe

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canuk-gal|1316793792|3023877 said:
Circe|1316654397|3022558 said:
Well, I finally dropped the necklace off today: the nice man at Tiffany's expressed some doubt about it being a 70s piece (he didn't think 18K was being used at the time, which makes me wonder about when 18K came into fashion, and when its popularity might have dipped ... hm). Soooo ... I guess now I wait with baited breath for two weeks to see what they say!

One nice thing: apparently, they only charge for the valuation report if they can provide one (i.e., believe the piece to be theirs and can provide a reasonable estimate of what it would cost to replace): otherwise, there's no charge. Good to know! It really would be insult added to injury to be charged for the knowledge that a piece was a fake ....
HI:

Interesting. Look forward to hearing the outcome. Will you keep it if it isn't 'Tiffany"? What is the sellers return policy?

cheers--Sharon

I ... honestly hadn't thought about it! The shop has such a good reputation that I just assumed it would be borne out. If it's not ... hm.

At the end of the day, the Tiffany name doesn't matter that much to me - the workmanship and design of the piece do. I think what I paid - $1600 - is fair for the amount of gold and the quality. So I guess I'll keep it no matter what - I'll just have my curiousity satisfied!
 

JewelFreak

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I've been wondering about your necklace too, Circe. Glad you took it in & also neat info on the charges. Tiff employees generally know very little to nada about historic Tiffany practices, so take what he told you with a big grain of salt. You should hear soon -- I'm really interested to know.

Jewelerman -- while I was working there 10 or 12 yrs ago Tiffany went to all 18K. No announcement was made as to why, in fact no announcement at all. They just began replacing 14K pieces w/18K & the 14K ones that didn't sell out by a certain time went to the employee store. Now that gold is knocking their socks off, they may be regretting it.

--- Laurie
 

jewelerman

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JewelFreak|1316823177|3024268 said:
I've been wondering about your necklace too, Circe. Glad you took it in & also neat info on the charges. Tiff employees generally know very little to nada about historic Tiffany practices, so take what he told you with a big grain of salt. You should hear soon -- I'm really interested to know.

Jewelerman -- while I was working there 10 or 12 yrs ago Tiffany went to all 18K. No announcement was made as to why, in fact no announcement at all. They just began replacing 14K pieces w/18K & the 14K ones that didn't sell out by a certain time went to the employee store. Now that gold is knocking their socks off, they may be regretting it.

--- Laurie
Jewel Freak,
Thanks for the info on the changes made on the Tiffany gold standard.I bet the reason they went all 18karat standard had something to do with producing separate 14 karat jewelry for the American Market and 18 karat for the European and other markets that wear only 18karat or above? Tell us about the employee store!Did you buy TONS of jewelry there?! :bigsmile:
 

JewelFreak

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Good thought about the 18K, Jewelerman. It was also still Boom Times; they may have thought 18K would sell better. Is there a better profit margin on 18K vs 14K?

The employee store is a great bargain; you can get things for pennies on the dollar...well, quarters anyway. The one in NJ, where I went, is tiny, kind of a glorified cleaning closet with one U-shaped display case. The NYC one is bigger from what I heard, but only for NYC personnel. Carries discontinued styles that haven't sold by the cut-off date, as well as defective stuff (no guarantee -- you take your chances with it), & some returned engagement rings. One good thing they do is never to re-sell an e-ring as is, so they can assure couples they are not buying a ring from a broken engagement. If it's a very good diamond, they re-set it, but if it's meh, the whole ring goes to the employee store.

It was a crap shoot whether you'd find anything appealing -- sometimes they had a few things I loved, others nothing to write home about. Depended on what had been returned or what designated for that site. Several times I found rings I was dying for -- but there would be only 1 or 2 & they were either too much too big or small to be re-sized successfully. Heartbreaking. Others were still too expensive for me, even with the huge discount: so it's 75% off, if the original price was 30K, didn't do me a lot of good. :(sad

All the corporate & store management get first pick, which is a major bummer. Great pieces are circulated to them & the leftovers sent to employee stores.

Very occasionally we were offered discontinued pieces still at our store at a big discount. I bought a heavy 14K bezel-set tanz ring from the Atlas collection that way. Also got an emerald & diamond eternity band.

For other products they hold quarterly chip-&-dent sales for employees. Crystal, china, silver holloware, etc. One, for instance, I got free, was their very thin crystal ice bucket w/the scroll ears -- used one time in a Christmas display & dragged across the table, leaving infinitessimal scratches on the bottom, so they dropped it in the chip & dent bin. Have a few other things that are handy -- but Tiffany's crystal is not top notch at all.

Makes it sound like heaven to work there -- this is the ONLY nice thing I ever saw done for store personnel. It is an absolutely miserable working environment, no jewelry in the place worth what they do to your soul. I still am bewildered at their people-management "philosophy," if it even deserves that name.

--- Laurie
 

Circe

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Dagnabbit! Just called Tiffany's to check and see if the necklace was ready, and apparently the Valuations Dept. is backed up: it will be another month before there is a definitive answer.

Ah, well. Good things come to those who wait, or so they tell me ....
 

jewelerman

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What! i don't know if i can wait that long! Doesn't Tiffany know that its NOT a good idea to keep Price Scope posters waiting on important matters like this! ;(
 
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