Tiffany Experience this Evening

[SDiamond]

Hi All,

I went in to Tiffany this evening to return an ering I purchased in favour of a JA one.

The sales person started to tell me that he only trusts GIA and Tiffany grading, that Tiffany actually grades their stones one level lower than actual (ie take it elsewhere and they'd grade it one level higher). He also said he has many years of diamond experience, yet didn't know about AGS and then tried to guess what the acronym stood for and got it somewhat correct.

Not a good experience, but he did enter doubt in my mind about my purchase (I didn't tell him it was from JA).

Thought I'd share

 

[John P]

Historically I'm a fan of T&Co - primarily because of the people I know in the organization.

...he only trusts GIA and Tiffany grading...

It's a logical position: Both are reliable. In fact T&Co is far smaller, therefore (arguably) more consistent.

...Tiffany actually grades their stones one level lower than actual...

I'm sorry but this sounds like marketing rhetoric. T&Co are strict, but not overstrict.

...didn't know about AGS...

I find it strange that he would make global statements about GIA v. T&Co, but does not demonstrate awareness of AGSL, the USA's premier cut-grading lab - which has long-been a sister-organization to GIA in many ways.

I do think it's natural for him to have demonstrated loyalty to his company. I sense he was doing this during your return process, and I can't fault that... I can only offer that the folks I know personally in the T&Co organization (primarily management) are certainly aware of the influential grading organizations in the USA; including AGSL and their preeminent position when it comes to cut-quality focus.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Just proof that the sales people are trained in the products they sell and that does not mean they have jewelry knowledge in general. I believe the average long term PS member could beat most jewelry sales people in a test of diamond/jewelry knowledge.

Don't worry about your purchase. Assuming you bought an ideal cut stone, it is as good or better than what is in the case at Tiffany.

 

[SDiamond]

...Tiffany actually grades their stones one level lower than actual...

I'm sorry but this sounds like marketing rhetoric. T&Co are strict, but not overstrict.

Agreed, seems weird to make such a statement. He said they do it to ensure they meet the standard claimed.

...didn't know about AGS...

I find it strange that he would make global statements about GIA v. T&Co, but does not demonstrate awareness of AGSL, the USA's premier cut-grading lab - which has long-been a sister-organization to GIA in many ways.

I do think it's natural for him to have demonstrated loyalty to his company. I sense he was doing this during your return process, and I can't fault that... I can only offer that the folks I know personally in the T&Co organization (primarily management) are certainly aware of the influential grading organizations in the USA; including AGSL and their preeminent position when it comes to cut-quality focus.[/quote]

Agreed again, really strange though to claim you are an expert and not know. He then started to knock online and called out Blue Nile. He was doing it during the return process, which was not smooth. I was told I could return it at this location when i called. Get there, she says not a problem, then takes 7-10min with the manager somewhere and says they need a gemologist to QA the ring, they have to send it to another location. So hopefully I get a refund tomorrow, the ring sat in its pouch in a safety deposit box, yet I'm still worried they'll make a fuss to refuse the return...maybe it's paranoia at that price tag.

 

[SDiamond]

Just proof that the sales people are trained in the products they sell and that does not mean they have jewelry knowledge in general. I believe the average long term PS member could beat most jewelry sales people in a test of diamond/jewelry knowledge.

Don't worry about your purchase. Assuming you bought an ideal cut stone, it is as good or better than what is in the case at Tiffany.

I think you commented on my advice thread a week ago. I went with the stone that I posted the specs for. I bought what JA calls hearts and arrows, vvs1, f, 1.06, don't recall the HCA as I type this, but below 1.6.

I am now thinking of spending More and getting 1.28 carat, D, VS1, H&A, HCA 1.8.

 

[JulieN]

Is F not white enough for your taste?

 

[SDiamond]

Is F not white enough for your taste?

It is, just not seeing options that fit other parameters on JA. WF & BGD have very limited selection with a top end price of $18000, within my parameters....D-F, VVS1-VS1, no fluorescence, HCA less than 2, best cut (ideal, cut above, BGD signature, H&A) , excellent polish/symmetry. Also BGD return policy is short and no shipping subsidy from Canada.

 

[GoSounders]

If Tiffany grades lower, there must be no such thing as a D IF Tiffany-graded stone.

 

[oldminer]

T & Co prides itself on its in-house strict grading. They often do grade their diamonds a lower grade than GIA might grade the same stone, but they have a policy that they would never want to have graded more liberally than GIA might grade, so they choose to err on the lower side. It is a foolish waste of money, but it suits their marketing strategy. However, they are leaving a ton of money on the table in lost value for low grading so many of their diamonds. Ultimately, the consumer pays for this cautious practice by agreeing to pay the higher prices T & Co feels it needs to charge. In the end, you can trust their grading although you may wish to buy something very much the same for less in another store or on-line.

GoSounders post above this one is very smart, too. Of course they do sell D-IF diamonds at T & Co. So, we know their tough grading is not universal within their firm. The grading we are discussing still has some degree of subjectivity and they choose to be conservative. This strategy would not work for any commercial lab wishing to compete with GIA. They would be gone within days with such a strategy as no one would give them diamonds to grade. That's exactly why the more liberal labs are doing reasonably well, too. Loose grading is quite popular with many dealers and retailers and we all know why. Caveat Emptor.

 

[motownmama]

It sounds like you got into quite a discussion. I always just say "I've changed my mind." Period.They can't get any info out of me. It's not gonna change anything anyway. Be confident in what you're getting from JA.

 

[ame]

My issues with Tiffany have always been related to getting the necessary info to make an informed choice and that their stones aren't particularly well cut. They sell with emotion in mind, and want to sell what they have, regardless of whether it suits your needs. And this is from someone who has owned more than one piece from them, and had plenty of e-ring drama with them many years ago. I don't like how unwilling most SAs and managers are with sharing information about a stone and unless you find an SA willing to "break the rules", you won't be able to see even a copy of the grading report til you buy the ring. You have to wait 4-6 weeks after you purchase to get the report. By then, your deal is done, and then what if it's not what you thought you were buying or you take it home and you're not happy with it? And you can't take it for appraisal or for proper grading from a reputable third party lab. They're not, in my opinion, reputable, because they have only their interests in mind, it's too one-sided. They can call a stone whatever the hell they want. Whereas GIA or AGS are not located within the walls of the selling party and they are most likely to be impartial and give a stone the proper grade.

I am also not impressed with the selection of their stones. I don't think they select well cut stones. Just in seeing what's in their system from my own searches and other peoples, the stones they select tend to have large tables and are way too deep and don't face up properly for their carat weight. Sure they have well cut stones but in a much smaller percentage than the rest, and good luck finding anyone willing to spend the time to help you find one in their system. I've seen several in the 1.5 ct range that face up like 1.3 - 1.35 ct stones because they lose spread in the depth. But they're quick to point out that Tiffany's "only sells the very best" (which is kind of a crock) and the color and clarity matter. Yet the SAs seem to know very little about diamonds overall, esp not anything about cut and can only regurgitate nonsense, but no actual information.

 

[SDiamond]

It sounds like you got into quite a discussion. I always just say "I've changed my mind." Period.They can't get any info out of me. It's not gonna change anything anyway. Be confident in what you're getting from JA.

Actually he did most of the talking. They were loosing credibility in my eyes pretty much when he started talking about his many years of expertise and then when asked about AGS, not knowing about it. Maybe I am presuming its common knowledge to those in the industry. I only know because I saw that grading and then researched a bit here and across the internet.

You are right though, keeping it simple doesn't invite conversation.

He could have handled trying to save the sale a little better though and with a little more professionalism that I would perceive Tiffany to provide. Now he's just one rep. The guy I bought from at another store was decent.

I am getting more and more confident with my JA purchase. I asked for some examples from Harry Winston to compare to Tiffany/JA out of curiosity. Definitely more expensive than both, what was surprising for what its worth is the HCA score for both stones. One was 2.6 and the other was 3.6. Both were F, VS1.

 

[SDiamond]

My issues with Tiffany have always been related to getting the necessary info to make an informed choice and that their stones aren't particularly well cut. They sell with emotion in mind, and want to sell what they have, regardless of whether it suits your needs. And this is from someone who has owned more than one piece from them, and had plenty of e-ring drama with them many years ago. I don't like how unwilling most SAs and managers are with sharing information about a stone and unless you find an SA willing to "break the rules", you won't be able to see even a copy of the grading report til you buy the ring. You have to wait 4-6 weeks after you purchase to get the report. By then, your deal is done, and then what if it's not what you thought you were buying or you take it home and you're not happy with it? And you can't take it for appraisal or for proper grading from a reputable third party lab. They're not, in my opinion, reputable, because they have only their interests in mind, it's too one-sided. They can call a stone whatever the hell they want. Whereas GIA or AGS are not located within the walls of the selling party and they are most likely to be impartial and give a stone the proper grade.

I am also not impressed with the selection of their stones. I don't think they select well cut stones. Just in seeing what's in their system from my own searches and other peoples, the stones they select tend to have large tables and are way too deep and don't face up properly for their carat weight. Sure they have well cut stones but in a much smaller percentage than the rest, and good luck finding anyone willing to spend the time to help you find one in their system. I've seen several in the 1.5 ct range that face up like 1.3 - 1.35 ct stones because they lose spread in the depth. But they're quick to point out that Tiffany's "only sells the very best" (which is kind of a crock) and the color and clarity matter. Yet the SAs seem to know very little about diamonds overall, esp not anything about cut and can only regurgitate nonsense, but no actual information.

My experience was slightly different, my rep pulled reports for stones I was interested in. He even brought over the gemologist to review the stones under 10x & 40x scope and a loupe with me. I will say they didn't seem overly willing to keep looking for stones. They did bring one in from Vancouver for me though, which is the one I bought (rep recommended I buy it as a way to hold it while I waited for my JA ring) and returned yesterday.

I do like their setting, seems heavier weight and thicker under the stone than JA. I know I could likely get custom one from JA, but don't have the time to wait on it. Worst case is I could upgrade the setting down the road if required.