Tiffany & Co and HOF Diamonds

[pang_k]

Hi All,

I'm curious to see how T&C and HOF diamonds compare in terms of light performance to H&A diamonds i.e. GOG, BG, WF

Does any one have any link to AGS platinum diamond reports online where I can see the ASET report? Perhaps there's another thread that someone can point me to which shows ASET images for T&C and HOF diamonds?

Thanks

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi All,

I'm curious to see how T&C and HOF diamonds compare in terms of light performance to H&A diamonds i.e. GOG, BG, WF

Thanks

FYI...I was quoted $59K for a 2ct G VS2 HoF stone... I can probably save $15-17K buying the same cut quality stone from thee above vendors you mention.

 

[diamondloveaffair]

i think GOG made a video comparing Tiffany's and their signature diamonds sometime ago. Try searching for it in youtube.

 

[Niel]

heres that video for a cut comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC4-hIhRoo4

In terms of cost though,
but where a 1.5 ct tiffany diamondcost nearly $23 K, and not be certain about the cut

For the same price ( actually less) you could get a larger branded stone that you'd know is well cut
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.721-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104064191017
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-tiffany-style-half-round-18k-white-gold-5478w18

or for the same size you could pay about 10k less, and still have a great cut stone ( this one is not branded, but has an HCA score under 2)
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-112792
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/engagement-rings/solitaire/18k-white-gold-six-prong-knife-edged-solitaire-engagement-ring-handmade-item-2537

 

[ame]

Tiffany and HOF don't provide ASETs for their stones. They just kind of assume that you take their word they're the best there are. The only way someone would have them is if one of their stones was in a place LIKE GOG or someone brought their own ASET scope to Tiffany's or an HOF dealer. Tiffany's has sold some nice stones, but also some SERIOUS DOGS. They have such a strange range for the stones they select, it seems less about cut quality and more about color and clarity. I have never once been in a store while a couple was discussing rings with a salesperson and had that salesperson address cut. Not once. I have interrupted a few times to address that cut is why it sparkles. NOT the color and clarity. And then I was asked if someone was helping me.

If having the brand is important, you can have the reports pulled and buy on numbers and view the ones you like the numbers of. But I don't see the point of buying the brand when you can get a very similar setting and a known performer that comes with tons of data. And if you still want a Tiffany band afterwards..great. Walk in with your new stunning non-Tiffany and get one while fooling them all.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

These vendors' hearts and arrows stones will be every bit as good as (or better than) HoF because they prove their precision cut, but many will be better than Tiffany's stones which will usually fall in the GIA Excellent cut category but you'd have to just be really lucky to get a hearts and arrows precision cut stone there. And many of their stones would not meet AGS Ideal standards, either. I like some Tiffany jewelry, but it wouldn't be where I'd buy diamonds.

 

[Smith1942]

heres that video for a cut comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC4-hIhRoo4

In terms of cost though,
but where a 1.5 ct tiffany diamondcost nearly $23 K, and not be certain about the cut

For the same price ( actually less) you could get a larger branded stone that you'd know is well cut
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.721-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104064191017
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-tiffany-style-half-round-18k-white-gold-5478w18

or for the same size you could pay about 10k less, and still have a great cut stone ( this one is not branded, but has an HCA score under 2)
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-112792
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/engagement-rings/solitaire/18k-white-gold-six-prong-knife-edged-solitaire-engagement-ring-handmade-item-2537

Or, you can get a 1.67 carat Blue Nile Signature I colour VS2 for $13,358. http://www.bluenile.com/build-your-own-diamond-ring?first_step=diamond&forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP#diamonds_forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP|builder=BYOR|pid=LD00315616

I see that an H VS2 Signature 1.72 is $20,308 with BGD. With Blue Nile a Signature H VS2 1.72 is $18,868. That's a difference of $1,440. http://www.bluenile.com/build-your-own-diamond-ring?first_step=diamond&forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP#diamonds_forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP|builder=BYOR|pid=LD02485809

Blue Nile Signature stones are true Hearts and Arrows, with strict parameters and they score around 1 on the HCA. They are equivalent in cut to HOF and BGD Signature. Here: http://www.bluenile.com/signature-ideal-round-diamonds

 

[Smith1942]

Hi All,

I'm curious to see how T&C and HOF diamonds compare in terms of light performance to H&A diamonds i.e. GOG, BG, WF

Thanks

FYI...I was quoted $59K for a 2ct G VS2 HoF stone... I can probably save $15-17K buying the same cut quality stone from thee above vendors you mention.

Dancing Fire, here is a Blue Nile Signature true Hearts & Arrows stone which is 2.02 carats, G, VS2, scores 1.1 on the HCA and falls within the AGS white box on the HCA indicating that it's an AGS 000 cut quality. And the punchline? It's $29,575. So while you might save 15-17k on WF, BGD and GOG, you save twenty-nine thousand, four hundred and twenty-five dollars going with Blue Nile, for a cut which is 101 percent on a par with HoF, ACA, BGD Sig.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?filter_id=0&pt=sig#diamonds_pid=LD02958801

Link to BN's Signature H&A page: http://www.bluenile.com/signature-ideal-round-diamonds

ETA: DF, since this is a Signature stone there is also a GCAL report which you can view online which has light performance diagrams and images.

 

[Smith1942]

To answer the OP, all these companies have their premium lines. BGD has their Signatures as does Blue Nile. Whiteflash has its ACA. HoF is meant to be only this premium cut.

The HoF markup is extreme. My engagement ring is a Hearts on fire. It's a 0.70, I, Si1, and today that would cost almost 10k. It's CRAZY.

I have just bought upgrade studs from Blue Nile's Ideal line, whereas my previous studs that I traded in were Blue Nile Signature. Here's my opinion: If you do your research, pick carefully, post the numbers on here for the experts to view and you use the HCA, you can get a stone which falls into these premium parameters and performs EVERY bit as well, for significantly lower cost. I chose my Ideal line studs very carefully using the method above, and I have got studs which sparkle in exactly the same way as the Blue Nile Signatures, without the silly mark-up. These premium lines are really for people too busy to do research or who don't care so much about the purchase but they have money and want to get at the best quickly, or for high net worth individuals to have something special to buy. It's good marketing.

This is my experience - hope it helps. You can view my Ideal studs in the SMTB thread. But I own a number of super-ideal diamonds, and as the experts on here told me, there is NO difference between the premium lines and these stones in terms of light performance, because I chose Ideal stones carefully. Even Blue Nile said that one of their better Ideal cuts is as good as the Signature line, just that the Sigs were cut by BN themselves. There is just much more variation in the Ideal lines so you have to do more research.

 

[rocku]

Hi All,

I'm curious to see how T&C and HOF diamonds compare in terms of light performance to H&A diamonds i.e. GOG, BG, WF

Thanks

FYI...I was quoted $59K for a 2ct G VS2 HoF stone... I can probably save $15-17K buying the same cut quality stone from thee above vendors you mention.

My Tco 2ct h vs2 was 47000. End up paid 37000 after trade in and a small discount.
The mark up is very high.

 

[Smith1942]

Sounds nice! Is that a recent purchase, Rocku? Just that diamond prices have shot up since 2011 so if you bought it before then, Tiff would probably sell it for much more now.

And yes, I've noticed that HoF is actually more expensive than Tiffany, but without the global prestige.

 

[bunnycat]

Hi All,

I'm curious to see how T&C and HOF diamonds compare in terms of light performance to H&A diamonds i.e. GOG, BG, WF

Does any one have any link to AGS platinum diamond reports online where I can see the ASET report? Perhaps there's another thread that someone can point me to which shows ASET images for T&C and HOF diamonds?

Thanks

I think you've already received a slew of important commentary but I will also pitch in my .02.

As others have said, the markup at Tiffany if very high and there isn't a way for them to provide you with performance metrics that you get from somewhere like GOG WF BGD, etc. If you are set on a Tiffany's ring for the brand value and you want some performance information, I would suggest buying a little ideal-scope as it's a very simple tool to use:

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

and then take it with you to look at diamonds with. Familiarize yourself with ideal/excellent specs or post the report info here for people to help you with.

My own experience with branded versus non-branded stones is not huge, but I did have a non H/A AGS000 diamond and recently shifted to a BG Blue stone (which is also AGS000, branded, extremely well cut and came with plenty of performance information). I compared the 2 side by side because I really liked my AGS000. It was a great performer and to me, was going to be hard to beat and so my expectations were quite high. The BG stone surpassed it, no problem there.

I would say anything from BG or WF is easily as good as of better than what you get at Tiff's. I can't say if it's better than HoF because I haven't seen one.

 

[rocku]

It was brought this feb, before the price increase in march.

 

[Smith1942]

Ha, I bet you're glad you got in there before the price increase! I do wish they would stop doing that.

 

[rocku]

Ha, I bet you're glad you got in there before the price increase! I do wish they would stop doing that.

I sure do now.
Talked to my sales last week, she said the increase was 3 to 10 %.
And the store was packed right before the hike, it would be impossible to find the cut I wanted.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Smith1942|1365177903|

Dancing Fire, here is a Blue Nile Signature true Hearts & Arrows stone which is 2.02 carats, G, VS2, scores 1.1 on the HCA and falls within the AGS white box on the HCA indicating that it's an AGS 000 cut quality. And the punchline? It's $29,575. So while you might save 15-17k on WF, BGD and GOG, you save twenty-nine thousand, four hundred and twenty-five dollars going with Blue Nile, for a cut which is 101 percent on a par with HoF, ACA, BGD Sig.

[/quote]


hmmm ...last week i was looking at ACA H VS2 2.53ct (now sold) for $35,580 and this one from BN is higher by $1800.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?filter_id=0&pt=sig#diamonds_pid=LD02228620

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Smith1942|1365177167|

Blue Nile Signature stones are true Hearts and Arrows, with strict parameters and they score around 1 on the HCA. They are equivalent in cut to HOF and BGD Signature. Here: http://www.bluenile.com/signature-ideal-round-diamonds[/quote]


if i'm paying H&A premium i wanna see a pic of the hearts not just to take their words that it's a H&A stone.

 

[Smith1942]

[quote="Smith1942|1365177167|

Blue Nile Signature stones are true Hearts and Arrows, with strict parameters and they score around 1 on the HCA. They are equivalent in cut to HOF and BGD Signature. Here: http://www.bluenile.com/signature-ideal-round-diamonds
if i'm paying H&A premium i wanna see a pic of the hearts not just to take their words that it's a H&A stone.

Well, I wasn't saying that every single stone on BN is cheaper than every other equivalent-specs stone on the other vendors' sites all the time. I'm saying that you can get some marvellous prices for stunning stones on BN and I think that this should be talked about more here, and especially pointed out to newbies. They sell more engagement rings than Tiffany, they are the most well-known, solid and reputable of the online vendors, having received much positive comment in the quality press such as the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, the Economist etc and speaking as a customer I find their service and prices unbeatable. That's why I'm surprised they get barely any airtime on PS.

Blue Nile is such a dependable and reputable company that I would believe their hearts and arrows; there is a page on them that I linked above and in fact there are a number of top and bottom graphics of each Signature stone on the GCAL reports online, plus light performance diagrams.Also, for a purchase of this level I think they would provide ASET images, because someone else here buying from Blue Nile got them.

But no one really likes them on PS, except me! Poor Blue Nile.

((((Blue Nile))))

 

[pang_k]

Yea I share the same experience with the price difference. My goal is to discover how much of a better looking ring for the price premium you're paying. I'm suspecting their rings are actually inferior and that they just do a lot of marketing to elevate the brand.

 

[pang_k]

Yea I've seen that video a few times over. Jonathan only compares the optics, what I'm really curious to see is the science behind it esp with ASET to pinpoint light return/leakage.

 

[pang_k]

Hi All,

Just to be clear...I'm choosing GOG/WF/BG H&A diamonds over Tiffany and HOF for the price difference. That's not the point of why I'm asking the question.

What I'm really looking for is scientific evidence i.e. AGS ASET images to show the difference.

Dear Brian Gavin, Jonathan W, can any of you guys or diamond pros out there run some ASET reports on Tiffany and HOF diamonds if you ever get your hands on them!!!!

 

[pang_k]

In my honest opinion, why would anyone buy anything from BlueNile? It's as near as buying blind as you can get. How can BN call their diamonds H&A if you can't actually visually assess optics for the hearts and arrows images.

At least with WF/BG, they show you ideal scope and ASET images. They also show pavilion view (hearts) and table/crown view (arrows) so you can assess the H&A pattern quality for deficiencies.

Big kudos to GOG for doing all the above and having 3D Sarins and Helium reports to completely analyze and measure proportions for painted and dug girdles.

 

[pang_k]

I would agree. HOF does a lot of marketing and infrasture/investment at the retail store level.

Love to get my hands on some ASET images for HOFs. I tried to find some HOF specimens on ebay and look up the AGS reports online hoping to pull up a platinum diamond report with ASET light map....but it looks like they all carry the basic reports without it. It's like they're almost trying to hide their inferiority some way!!!

Got to give it to GOG/WF/BG for their forthrightness and disclosure with their ASET images online. Nothing beats that

 

[diamondloveaffair]

There might be legal ramifications involved in doing this. Perhaps that's why vendors don't openly do anything. If the ASETs of a competitor are nice, it doesn't help the cause to promote theirs. If theirs are bad, it's better to keep quiet instead of making an open post that can lead to legal issues.

Anyway, you can do this yourself by buying a physical ASET or idealscope.

Here's an example of a GOOD comparison: go to google and key in jogia hearts on fire.

Personally, the majority of HoF stones that I had seen have slightly white centers under the table. Not the full red that you would expect to see. They do exhibit exceptional optical symmetry though. But I'm not super impressed. If I am paying such premiums, it had better be the best of the best.

Tiffany's diamonds have a huge range of quality. Just like how GIA excellent has a huge range. Generally, their diamonds are well cut. But if you are looking at the cream of the crop, you need to be really selective.

In my humble opinion, HoF is definitely better than Tiffanys in terms of the diamond cut quality. So, if you are torn between a choice, go for HoF for better cut. Go to Tiffany's purely for the brand name.

 

[diamondloveaffair]

I would agree. HOF does a lot of marketing and infrasture/investment at the retail store level.

Love to get my hands on some ASET images for HOFs. I tried to find some HOF specimens on ebay and look up the AGS reports online hoping to pull up a platinum diamond report with ASET light map....but it looks like they all carry the basic reports without it. It's like they're almost trying to hide their inferiority some way!!!

Got to give it to GOG/WF/BG for their forthrightness and disclosure with their ASET images online. Nothing beats that

HoF only provide in house certification. Unless the diamond is greater than 1 carat, then it will come along with an AGS report as well.

 

[pang_k]

Bastetcat,

I'm just surprise no where online or on PS has ever taken photographs of ideal scope and ASET images for HOF & Tiffany diamonds.

Isn't everyone curious to find out what light performance you get for the dollar premium you're actually getting?

 

[pang_k]

Yea I totally agree!!! I want to be able to critique the hearts and arrows pics. Just because they post the ideal proportions doesn't mean they're true H&A. I like to follow the HRD guidelines for H&A...strict as heck...nearly impossible to achieve. If someone ever comes across a retailer who sells ideal H&A diamonds according to HRD standards I'd love to hear from them

http://www.hrdresearch.be/en/DiamondInfo/articlesPDF/Article1_HA_objectively_measured.pdf

See attached as well.

Curious - are there any Japanese retailers that I can find H&A diamonds from? Anyone have specs/photos of one they can share online here?

 

[Draco]

I beleive the left was an HOF, not one of their best though.
In my experience they have well cut rounds some more than others but they are no better than other well cut rounds yet they are marketed as such and are sold at a higher markup.

If I was purchasing for resale I wouldn't consider either of these brands of diamonds.

 

[pang_k]

Interesting attachment on 8 Star. I agree I wouldn't buy any of these either.

Anyone analyzed/compared Solasfera diamonds vs. HOF & Tiffany vs. WF/BG/GOG H&A?

I beleive the left was an HOF, not one of their best though.
In my experience they have well cut rounds some more than others but they are no better than other well cut rounds yet they are marketed as such and are sold at a higher markup.

If I was purchasing for resale I wouldn't consider either of these brands of diamonds.