Tiffany - but not your standard question

[poorboy]

Hi all. I would like to start by saying that I am new to the forum (this is my first post), but have learned a trememdous amount of information in the last few weeks. Thanks everyone for putting so much information out there for us ignorant buyers.

It is readily apparent after surfing the forum that people generally think Tiffany is a ripoff - I do not disagree. However, there is a tremendous amount of value for me from buying from a store I can walk into, a diamond that I can see, a company that I feel I can trust (except of course that they are screwing me on the price). With that said, I am strongly considering buying a Tiffany engagement ring. I know that there may be other cuts that are better (eightstar, HOF, a cut above, etc.), but it seems that the general consensus is that Tiffany diamonds are at least really good (just maybe not the best). So without bashing me too bad, I have the following question:

If I decide I am dead set on buying my stone from Tiffany (approx. 1.75 carats), could you please give me some tips on how to pick the best diamond from Tiffany? That is, if, for example, they have 3 stones that are all the same color and clarity and close to the same weight, how can I choose among them to make sure I am getting the one with the best cut?

The transalation of my verbose question and background set forth above is: I know I am getting screwed at Tiffany, please help me get the least screwed as possible!!!

Thanks in advance.

 

[Shay37]

Order an idealscope and use it when comparing the stones. Get the one that has the best light performance. See, that wasn''t so hard. Good luck.

shay

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome Poorboy

Don't worry, you won't get flamed for your question

!!! If it was me I would research the cut tutorials at the top of the page in the knowledge section and learn about Ideal Cuts and what the parameters are. Of course, use your eyes to see which diamond performs the best to you. Try to choose one which falls into the best cut proportions possible. I don't know what Tiffany do regarding certs, whether they provide Sarin reports etc, also crown and pavillion angles, Brillianscope images and an Idealscope tool you can get etc, this is very useful to help determine cut quality. I know that some here have bought from Tiffany and are delighted with their diamonds, they will be able to advise you better, however I would think Tiffany would in no way sell badly cut and uninteresting diamonds at all, so you should be very safe, you will just obviously pay a premium for one of their diamonds, but the choice is yours to make if you are absolutely determined to purchase there, if you change your mind however PS ers can help you find a fantastic rock from an online vendor. Hope this helps!

 

[Shay37]

Here is the link where you can order one per my last post. IS link Hope this helps you a lot.

shay

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/23/2005 9:55:32 AM
Author:poorboy


[...] there is a tremendous amount of value for me from buying from a store I can walk into, a diamond that I can see, a company that I feel I can trust ...

Well, then the walk-in-store experience better have tremendous value, because that is exactly what you''ll pay for it!

Seriously, paying for trust makes sense, so why not - as long as you have decided these guys are trustworthy for the money.

Seriously, with three diamonds to choose from, the task is rather easy - get the one that looks nicer to you. There isn''t much more to it.

All the intricate technicals are meant to evaluate cut parameters against a model of sorts, so that diamonds presented online or available on the ground but not in the same place & time can be compared. You will not have this problem. Also, a reference model may serve to give some idea of what the expectations for excellence might be - but you have already ruled that out too...The replacement is your trust in the seller - and beyond that, what you see is what you get. I do not understand what could be ''good'' about a diamond that is not obvious to the eye, IMO that is all these stones are god for - looks.

... intended as a friendly 0.2 worth

 

[MissAva]

Chances are that they will not have three ring in the exact same sct weight, dimensions, color and clarity. I would buy which ever one appeals to your eyes and your wallet the most. I would also consider looking at the dimensions and price to compare as the stone will be eye-clean and the color is personal.

 

[poorboy]

Wow, such quick responses - I love this forum.

Specs aside, do you think that you could pick an H&A stone from a Tiffany stone with no tools. I realize that the Tiffany stone may not be as good based on specs, my question is trying to get to finding out what point we just can''t see the difference.

Again, I know that Tiffany is way more expensive for the same, if not worse, specs.

 

[widget]

Hi, Poorboy...(interesting name for a Tiffany custormer!

)

There are people in the world (myself included) that don''t consider paying a premium for a signed piece is necessarily "being screwed"...as long as the customer is aware that he is paying a premium.

I also don''t think you need to use a any device to examine a stone from the likes of Tiffanys, Harry Winston, or whoever. Isn''t one of the main points of going to such a store is the confidence one can have that some expert has already examined and selected a superior stone for you to consider? Let your eyes do the final choosing!

JMO
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[valeria101]

Date: 11/23/2005 10:22:31 AM
Author: poorboy


Specs aside, do you think that you could pick an H&A stone from a Tiffany

I don't think they recognize H&A exist... and certainly don't make a case for it.

It may happen to find a diamond that happens to show some more or less precise arrow pattern, and it shows. You need to have the stone straight on the line of vision (i.e look straight perpendicular to the table of the thing) and the arrows look black if the diamond is in the shade. That might be hard in a store with lots of different light sources, but it should work if the ring is close enough to you.

There's no way to see the heart pattern on the pavilion in setting.

I am pretty sure you could end up choosing a non H&A diamond anyway. If you have seen some and know you like their looks, forget Tiff and go for H&A - somewhat less than 2k can match the quality of the setting easily. I am not sure if this recipe saves any money though

FedEx guy delivery for H&A in bespoke setting costs somewhere between 16k and 23k apparently (range for F-H, VS1-VS2). What is Tiffany asking?

 

[poorboy]

Widget - my user name is supposed to be indicative of my state after I go to Tiffany''s - I was trying to be ironical. What is the source of your name - by chance are you a lawyer (I always associate widgets with law school hypotheticals)?

Everyone''s answers have been very helpful. I do think that it is possible to view three stones that are close, they are happy to rings in if so requested.

 

[widget]

Author: poorboy
Widget - What is the source of your name - by chance are you a lawyer?

LOL...no..."Widget" is the name of that fine canine specimen you see on the left..

After I made that comment about your user name, it occurred to me that maybe you''re just a guy who likes big sandwiches..

widget

 

[belle]

Date: 11/23/2005 10:56:23 AM
Author: widget

Author: poorboy
Widget - What is the source of your name - by chance are you a lawyer?

LOL...no...''Widget'' is the name of that fine canine specimen you see on the left..

After I made that comment about your user name, it occurred to me that maybe you''re just a guy who likes big sandwiches..

widget

lol...

best of luck poorboy! i''m sure you will find something you will be very pleased with.

 

[finerthings]

Congrats on your upcoming engagement! Read all you can in the diamond tutorials, and then let your eyes be the final judge. Don''t worry, T&Co won''t have stones that are dogs. IMHO Hearts and Arrows are not the best looking stones anyway, it''s just marketing hype. I mean, do you really want to walk around with an idealscope in your pocket, cuz who cares once the stone is being worn on the finger? The things you need to focus on are basically deciding where you stand on color, clarity, girdle, fluorescence, culet and actual diamond size personal preferences. When you are looking at the stones T&Co will let you view copies of the certs so you can see the all the info including the polish, symmetry and precision of cut. Make sure these are up to snuff and then let your eyes be the judge. Have fun!

 

[moremoremore]

This gave me a giggle poorboy "However, there is a tremendous amount of value for me from buying from a store I can walk into, a diamond that I can see, a company that I feel I can trust (except of course that they are screwing me on the price)." LOL...Yes, they are screwing you LOL...

But have you forgotten that you can also correspond with many of the price scope vendors and then go in person and select a stone? Even after a good airfare, you''ll still have saved tons of money!

 

[Rank Amateur]

Tiffany thanks God for shoppers like you.

Might as well just trust THEM to pick out the stone.

 

[solange]

You can also look at stones in Tiffany and then check what some of the Pricescope vendors have that are comparable.

I did that and wound up buying from Whiteflash. Tiffany carries stones down to I color, VS2. If you do have your heart set on Tiffany, then you should certainly go for it. But you might want to see what you can get for the same money from one of the very highly regarded Pricescope vendors. And you do not have to buy sight unseen.

If you buy from a vendor that does not drop ship but actually sends for the stone or stones and examines them, you can get a lot of information over the phone. Brian, at Whiteflash, is a cutter and will discuss the stne with you at length. I found that the people I dealt with at Tiffany New York were not very knowledgeable and all stones look different in different lighting conditions.

You might want to contact some of the Pricescope vendors such as GoodOldGold, Nice Ice, Whiteflash, etc. and see if you feel comfortable.

Usually a vendor will not go to the trouble and expense of sending out a stone that does not meet their standards and will honestly tell you the stone is not for you. If you do find something that sounds good, you can have the vendor send it to a reputable appraiser in your area where you can actually see the stone or stones yourself. Or you can have the stones sent to someone like David Atlas or Richard Sherwood. I would trust their eyes far more than I would trust my own.

I had my stone sent to an appraiser who confirmed that it was a great stone. I had looked around enough to know that it looked good to me as well. The appraiser then sent it back to WHtieflash for setting. THey sent me photos of the stone in the setting and when I approved, I sent a bank transfer and received the ring by Fedex overnight. I did not have to pay Whiteflash until the stone was set and ready to be shipped.

A similar stone would have cost me many thousands more at Tiffany and I was able to get a much larger stone for the price. If you look at the Show Me the RIng section, you can see many beautiful rings from online vendors. Then if you do decide on Tiffany, you will have a better idea of what you are paying for.

Best of luck.

 

[finerthings]

Date: 11/23/2005 12:00:36 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
Tiffany thanks God for shoppers like you.


Might as well just trust THEM to pick out the stone.

...oh good grief.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/23/2005 11:18:24 AM
Author: finerthings

When you are looking at the stones T&Co will let you view copies of the certs so you can see the all the info including the polish, symmetry and precision of cut.

Well, anyone has copies of certs. And most stores do not get away with their own grading these days... There is no ''precision of cut'' on GIA or Tiffany certs that one may get with the occasion.

Regardless, I am sure there is more to Tiffany''s.

 

[finerthings]

Date: 11/23/2005 1:14:56 PM
Author: valeria101

Date: 11/23/2005 11:18:24 AM

Author: finerthings


When you are looking at the stones T&Co will let you view copies of the certs so you can see the all the info including the polish, symmetry and precision of cut.

Well, anyone has copies of certs. And most stores do not get away with their own grading these days... There is no ''precision of cut'' on GIA or Tiffany certs that one may get with the occasion.


Regardless, I am sure there is more to Tiffany''s.

In actuality the T&Co cert does include "Precision of cut."

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/23/2005 1:25:29 PM
Author: finerthings


... the T&Co cert does include 'Precision of cut.'

Ok.. didn't know. Not on this type of document though.

What is the grade about? Just curious. I respect their opinion anyway.

 

[Kaleigh]

My cert doesn''t have precision of cut, but maybe that''s a new thing for Tiff''s. We got my ring 6 years ago.

 

[moremoremore]

http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_72ct_f_vs1_h%26a.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_75ct_f_si1_h%26a.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_868ct_g_vvs1_h%26a.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/2_028ct_i_si1_h%26a.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/2_03ct_g_vs2_h%26a.htm

Not much else I''d need to know!

 

[finerthings]

My T&Co cert accompanied my Lucida diamond ring purchased 2 years ago. The document lists:
Shape
Cut
Weight
Measurements
Cut proportions: Total depth%
Table diameter%
Crown angle
Pavilion depth%
Girdle
Culet
Presence:Symmetry
Polish
Precision of cut
Clarity
Color
Fluorescence

It also lists if there are any enhancements, chips, surface inclusions, laser drill holes,black inclusions, pervasive clouding, extra facets, graining, knots, naturals, cavities on surface, and after setting inspection.

 

[Mara]

I thought I read that Tiffany was able to run Sarins or something like that? MegaScope maybe.


Anyway, there are two easy ways to choose the best diamond out of 3 they set in front of you.

1) Buy an IdealScope for $30 off Garry's website and use it to gauge the light return of the stones, use it to also look for a nice symmetrical pattern and ideally a pattern of decent arrows. Lots of red and pink is good, white is bad for light return. Take a look at Garry's website for information on what you are looking for, there are images of great looking stones under the IS vs poor etc.

2) Tell them you want to see only their best cuts. When they present you with those three, get them to run a Sarin or make sure that the cert or information they show you has all the basics and then some, aka table, depth, diameter and depth, crown and pavilion angles (not percentages), girdle, polish, symmetry, fluorescence, culet.

Then come back to us and let us know the numbers of all three and how the IdealScope images looked to you. With that information you will be able to use people's assistance here to determine which may be the best looking to both your eyes and on paper.

You'll be able to make an educated decision at that point!

 

[widget]

Sorry, Mara...but I think this is nonsense.

What''s wrong with using your eyes and your gut feelings???

I think that gadgets and reports might be useful for preselecting stones sight unseen off the internet.

Suggesting that consumers here can presume to suggest which stones are prettiest to a person who''s seen them in real life is utterly absurd.

JMO widget

 

[moremoremore]

Down widget, down!! Good widget!! LOL

I think she meant that with the info we can say which look best on paper ...and then we will compare those to which looked best with his eyes...!

But I actually agree with you to a certain extent anyway. After all, I selected my precious using only my eyes... I'm not even sure I could get an idealscope to work under the lights in Tiffany...but heck, it doesn't hurt, right? On the other hand, numbers and report can't tell ya what actually looks best to your own eyes! A combo of the two is the best approach...But then again, what do I know, silly ol me would just take a peek at the stones on the GOG site and check em out in person and deal is done. I think Tiffany is for chumps anyway LOL

J/K
If my hubby was like...Here is a beautiful 1.75 (but it could have been a beautiful 2.0, I personally would slap him silly )

 

[belle]

if you have decided to put your trust and $$ into the blue box, you need to jump in with both feet. i find the idealscope to be extremely useful and would not consider making a purchase without it, but in this case you are buying the brand for what it is. there is no sense in trying to find a better better.

 

[Mara]

Date: 11/23/2005 4:01:50 PM
Author: widget
Sorry, Mara...but I think this is nonsense.

What's wrong with using your eyes and your gut feelings???

I think that gadgets and reports might be useful for preselecting stones sight unseen off the internet.

Suggesting that consumers here can presume to suggest which stones are prettiest to a person who's seen them in real life is utterly absurd.

JMO widget

Note widget that I said he should come here with what he SAW (with his eyes) and give us the numbers and we can help advise him on what WE think would be best ALSO taking into consideration what he saw with his eyes with both the IS and just general sparkle. That's what I would do. It's not about telling people what is 'prettiest' in person...in his first post, he said he wanted to know how to find the diamond with the 'BEST CUT'...which is something that I think PS'ers are more than qualified to assist with at least with by giving educated opinions. Isn't that what we are here for at least some of the time?

Personally for me I always could use another opinion or 10 on things when I am shopping for large purchases...and seriously I don't trust JUST the eyes, like I don't trust JUST the numbers. I also don't trust JUST the brand or JUST the salesperson or any one thing definitively.

Personally, I feel like I'd be doing him a huge disservice if I just said 'oh just choose out of the three which your eye likes the best'. Without knowing *anything else*. I am not that trusting. Of my eyes, their service, their brand, or anything like that. I am a HUGE researcher and I do it with everything, and that is just how I buy. Whenever I have trusted 'my eyes' in the past, I didn't always make the right long-term decision. So now I do due diligence and all the research and so far it has really paid off in spades more than my whole 'gut instinct' purchase did. Nothing utterly absurd about it.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/23/2005 9:55:32 AM
Author:poorboy

So without bashing me too bad, I have the following question:...

He, he...

It hasn''t work entirely as planned, has it?

Hope this wasn''t too bad.

 

[widget]

Author: Mara
.... I feel like I'd be doing him a huge disservice if I just said 'oh just choose out of the three which your eye likes the best'.

At Tiffany's???

If I were going to shop for a nice big rock at T&Co, HW, VCA, etc etc...I'd want to savor and relish every moment of the experience. I wouldn't want to turn it into a job...or some kind of research project. If I did, I wouldn't go to one of those guys in the first place.

I think it is safe to assume...and not naive...that any stone I'd get from them would be beautiful.

Mara... we are obviously very different in our approaches to diamonds/jewelry. Can we agree to disagree?

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