shape
carat
color
clarity

Thoughts?

CutMonkey

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
84
She is a mental health professional who sees patients. Some of her patients will undoubtedly see this media coverage because it has been in more than one outlet. How will they react and process this information? Perhaps she doesn't care. I would be concerned if she were my therapist.

If you'd bother to listen to the whole speech, you'd see she actually pretty sympathetic to the difficulties white people have discussing racism.

Perhaps you want to take a look at the following on her webpage:


"WAIT!! I am a White Man.
I read about your background in critical theory, I want to see you, but I am a little nervous. Does this mean you won’t show me any love?

...

Nah. Of course not. White men are living in a strange moment right now. They are almost not allowed to say anything. Who says the effects of racism and sexism don’t also affect white men?"
 

Matata

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Messages
7,813
@Diamond Girl 21 My assumption is that reasonable people who engage in discussion understand that whatever is being discussed does not apply to everyone. I was raised in a predominantly black ghetto and had to use my lunch money to hire protection starting in the 3rd grade because as a fat white kid with a wonky eye, I was a screaming neon target ripe for the picking and have the scars as remembrance.

And yet, what I experienced because of the color of my skin is vastly different that what POC experience. I had more opportunity and assistance to succeed in life than my school mates did in spite of the fact that the people raising us were addicts and equally poor.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,254
If you'd bother to listen to the whole speech, you'd see she actually pretty sympathetic to the difficulties white people have discussing racism.

Perhaps you want to take a look at the following on her webpage:


"WAIT!! I am a White Man.
I read about your background in critical theory, I want to see you, but I am a little nervous. Does this mean you won’t show me any love?

...

Nah. Of course not. White men are living in a strange moment right now. They are almost not allowed to say anything. Who says the effects of racism and sexism don’t also affect white men?"

None of that matters to the media. Yale did not put her talk out. Why is that?
 

Matata

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Messages
7,813
Yale did not put her talk out. Why is that?

You'd have to ask someone there to know for sure. My guess is that none of the Yale admins wanted to take the risk of the legacy rich elite white donors and alums getting all upset and pulling their money because the uppity brown skinned girl had the audacity to insult the superior race, but I could be wrong....
 

Diamond Girl 21

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 26, 2017
Messages
1,184
@Diamond Girl 21 My assumption is that reasonable people who engage in discussion understand that whatever is being discussed does not apply to everyone. I was raised in a predominantly black ghetto and had to use my lunch money to hire protection starting in the 3rd grade because as a fat white kid with a wonky eye, I was a screaming neon target ripe for the picking and have the scars as remembrance.

And yet, what I experienced because of the color of my skin is vastly different that what POC experience. I had more opportunity and assistance to succeed in life than my school mates did in spite of the fact that the people raising us were addicts and equally poor.

"Reasonable" being the operative word. (Not talking about you here....just in general.) The phrase white privilege does in fact reference a whole race. That's why I find it exceedingly offensive.

No one can say definitively what someone else has experienced. I believe we can choose to be respectful and kind to one another inspite of our differences.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,170
Put her assessment of white people into the context of all of the POC who have been killed for walking, running, driving, sleeping in their beds because of the amount of melanin in their skin. Put her words into the context of POC who are terrified to send their kids and adult loved ones out of the house because they might not make it through the day without being murdered by whites who think it's always open season on POC.
You mean w/o being murdered by another POC. How many blacks were killed by whites in Chicago for the past 10 yrs?.

Really sad to hear that certain political party are brainwashing POC into believing that whites are hunting them down on the streets every day when in fact more POC are killing each other.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
46,368
I do not believe in restricting access to free speech. I support free speech even when (especially when) I don't agree with what is being said.

I think when one is not part of a minority group who is affected by racism one cannot truly "get" what it means to live with racism on a daily basis. I don't support violence or hate in any way but I do understand at least a little bit why she feels the way she does. I have compassion for her (suffering and) point of view even if I don't like what she has to say. It makes me uncomfortable but I need to explore why it makes me feel the way it does. She has a right to feel however she wants to feel and as long as she doesn't act on her violent fantasies they are just that. Fantasies.

We have a long way to go to get to the point where everyone has equal opportunity and where everyone can exist peacefully no matter our differences. I feel we need to hear what others are saying in order to move forward to a more positive future and better outcome for all races/religions/genders etc. We all deserve equal opportunities. We all deserve to feel/be safe and exist peacefully. No one race/gender/religion has the exclusive on that.

We all share this world and we all deserve to be able to make a happy present/future for our loved ones. Will that ever happen? Probably not in my lifetime or yours. But we have to keep hope alive and keep on striving for a better world.

“Hope is being able to see that there is light despite all of the darkness.” – Desmond Tutu

Here is an article from the NYT to address the poster who said the initial article I shared is biased. All news reporting is biased. Objectivity in the news doesn't exist anymore.


A Psychiatrist Invited to Yale Spoke of Fantasies of Shooting White People

The Yale School of Medicine said the tone and content of a lecture by Dr. Aruna Khilanani, who has a private practice in New York, were “antithetical to the values of the school.”


Yale University has restricted access to an online video of a talk given by Dr. Aruna Khilanani, in which she said that talking directly to white people about race was a “waste of our breath.”

Yale University has restricted access to an online video of a talk given by Dr. Aruna Khilanani, in which she said that talking directly to white people about race was a “waste of our breath.”Credit...Christopher Capozziello for The New York Times
By Michael Levenson
June 6, 2021
A psychiatrist said in a lecture at Yale University’s School of Medicine that she had fantasies of shooting white people, prompting the university to later restrict online access to her expletive-filled talk, which it said was “antithetical to the values of the school.”
The talk, titled “The Psychopathic Problem of the White Mind,” had been presented by the School of Medicine’s Child Study Center as part of Grand Rounds, a weekly forum for faculty and staff members and others affiliated with Yale to learn about various aspects of mental health.
In the online lecture, on April 6, the psychiatrist, Dr. Aruna Khilanani, who has a private practice in New York and is not affiliated with Yale, described a “psychological dynamic that is on PTSD repeat,” in which people of color patiently explain racism to white people, who deny their attacks. When people of color then become angry, white people use that anger as “confirmation that we’re crazy or have emotional problems,” she said.
She recalled a white therapist telling her in psychoanalysis that she was “psychotic” whenever she expressed anger at racism, and said she had spent “years unpacking her racism to her,” even though she was the one being charged for the sessions.
“This is the cost of talking to white people at all — the cost of your own life, as they suck you dry,” Dr. Khilanani said in the lecture, which drew widespread attention after Bari Weiss, a former writer and editor for the opinion department of The New York Times, posted an audio recording of it on Substack on Friday. “There are no good apples out there. White people make my blood boil.”
Dr. Khilanani added that around five years ago, “I took some actions.”
“I systematically white-ghosted most of my white friends, and I got rid of the couple white BIPOCs that snuck in my crew, too,” she said, using an acronym for Black and Indigenous people and people of color.
“I had fantasies of unloading a revolver into the head of any white person that got in my way, burying their body and wiping my bloody hands as I walked away relatively guiltless with a bounce in my step, like I did the world a favor,” she said, adding an expletive.
Later in the lecture, Dr. Khilanani, who said she is of Indian descent, described the futility of trying to talk directly to white people about race, calling it a “waste of our breath.”
“We are asking a demented, violent predator who thinks that they are a saint or a superhero to accept responsibility,” she said. “It ain’t going to happen. They have five holes in their brain.”
Dr. Khilanani, a forensic psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, said in an email on Saturday that her words had been taken out of context to “control the narrative.” She said her lecture had “used provocation as a tool for real engagement.”
“Too much of the discourse on race is a dry, bland regurgitation of new vocabulary words with no work in the unconscious,” she said. “And, if you want to hit the unconscious, you will have to feel real negative feelings.”
She added: “My speaking metaphorically about my own anger was a method for people to reflect on negative feelings. To normalize negative feelings. Because if you don’t, it will turn into a violent action.”
Dr. Khilanani noted that her lecture had initially been well received. After she gave it, several attendees praised her comments on the online feed.

One woman who identified herself as a Yale psychologist called it “absolutely brilliant.” A man said, “I feel very shook in a good way,” and a Black woman thanked Dr. Khilanani for giving “voice to us as people of color and what we go through all the time.”
Dr. Khilanani received her New York State medical license in 2008. Her website says that she has expertise in “seeing both the conscious and unconscious structures of racism/sexism/homophobia/classism” that allows for a safe environment when treating people from marginalized groups.
Ms. Weiss released the recording of Dr. Khilanani’s remarks at a time when many universities are debating teaching about race and racism and the limits of free speech.
Ms. Weiss also posted an interview with Dr. Khilanani by the journalist Katie Herzog.
The Yale School of Medicine said in its statement that after Dr. Khilanani’s talk, several faculty members had expressed concern about her remarks.
Based on those concerns, leaders at the School of Medicine, in consultation with the chairwoman of the Child Study Center, reviewed a recording of the talk and “found the tone and content antithetical to the values of the school,” the statement said.
Because Grand Rounds are typically posted online, the statement said, school leaders then reviewed a university report on free expression at Yale in deciding how to handle Dr. Khilanani’s lecture.
“In deciding whether to post the video, we weighed our grave concern about the extreme hostility, imagery of violence, and profanity expressed by the speaker against our commitment to freedom of expression,” the statement said.
Ultimately, school leaders decided to limit access to the video to those who could have attended the talk — the members of the Yale community.
School leaders also added a disclaimer to the video to “emphasize that the ideas expressed by the speaker conflict with the core values of Yale School of Medicine,” the statement said.
The disclaimer reads, in part: “Yale School of Medicine expects the members of our community to speak respectfully to one another and to avoid the use of profanity as a matter of professionalism and acknowledgment of our common humanity. Yale School of Medicine does not condone imagery of violence or racism against any group.”
Dr. Khilanani posted several videos on TikTok addressing what she called Yale’s “suppression of my talk on race.” In her email, she called on Yale to release the video, and she said in a phone interview that Yale should not have been surprised because “they knew the topic, they knew the title, they knew the speaker.”

After Yale limited access to an online video posted by Dr. Khilanani, she shared her thoughts on TikTok.

She said the university was trying to protect itself from internal and external blowback.
“Something is emotionally dangerous about opening up a conversation about race,” she said in the email. “No one wants to look at their actions or face their own negative feelings about what they are doing. The best way to control the narrative is to focus on me, and make me the problem, which is what I stated occurs in the dynamic of racism.”
She added: “My work is important. And, I stand by it. We need to heal in this country.”
Dr. Nicholas A. Christakis, a Yale professor of social and natural science, internal medicine and biomedical engineering, was among those who had criticized Dr. Khilanani’s lecture.
He said on Twitter that the views that Dr. Khilanani had expressed, which he referred to as “racism,” were “deeply worrisome & counter-productive.”
“Of course, as an invitee, she is free to speak on campus,” Dr. Christakis said. “But her views must be soundly rejected.”



I 100% agree with her when she said "We need to heal in this country". But will add one word. We need to heal in this world. No one is immune to hate or prejudice and we all have to do the hard work to get to a better place. There are no easy answers but with most things worthwhile it is never easy. Who said ignorance is stubborn and prejudice is hard? Truth. Once we realize we are all bound together and our peaceful existence is forever tied perhaps change for the better can occur.


"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
Martin Luther King, Jr.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
11,414
A nontrivial number of my (Indian, very not white) family members are amongst the most racist and classist people you will ever encounter.

Racism isn't just a "white people problem".

yip
my Maori freind Tuku - who is just the nicest person you ever met
he says everyone can be racist
 

Arcadian

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
8,044
sooooo my thoughts on this are too hot for tv. let me shut up...lol
 

Mekp

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
387
I'm conflicted.
I find the comments pretty appalling. As a health professional I know I am always representing my profession and never get a break from that. I am surprised her professional regulatory body hasn't gotten involved as I'm quite certain mine would (or perhaps they have).
I also know that my initial reaction to remarks that make me uncomfortable are not necessarily where I end up after I've had some time to digest them. I have 2 autistic children and the first time I read an article by Amy Sequenzia (a non-verbal autistic advocate) and her take on parents of autistic children, I felt enraged. But then I settled down and I think I get it now. And I think I'm a better advocate for my children having gone through that entire response.
Perhaps after I've mulled this over a bit, I'll get it, too.
 

Cerulean

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
2,143
When you read the article, what was your first reaction? What was your first question? For people who think she's being unprofessional or she's a sicko, why do you base that opinion on one article? Did you consider that the New York Post has a reputation for being one of the most unreliable news sources? Did you notice the derogatory "shrink" in the article title?

What evidence is there that this particular presentation correlates to the care she gives her patients? Has she been disciplined, sued, or lost her license to practice due to unprofessional patient care?

Put her assessment of white people into the context of all of the POC who have been killed for walking, running, driving, sleeping in their beds because of the amount of melanin in their skin. Put her words into the context of POC who are terrified to send their kids and adult loved ones out of the house because they might not make it through the day without being murdered by whites who think it's always open season on POC. Think of all the hatred directed toward POC that dominated the headlines from 2016-2020 that ripped the facade off the mistaken notion that we had evolved beyond racism. Anyone notice the success a certain group has had in restricting voting rights that will have a negative impact on POC?

Did she scare you, make you squirm, make you angry, righteously indignant? Good. Because if we stay comfortable, we won't change.

I definitely didn’t only read the NY Post article, of course I noticed the ridiculously biased language they used, and I read transcripts of the full lecture.

As to the quality of her patient care, I’m highly suspicious of her professional judgment given this lecture. She was there as a professional and therefore, her conduct is representative of the caretaker she is. She wasn’t a critical theorist giving a lecture on whiteness, she was there as a mental health professional speaking to other practitioners who work with minors - a special population that is exceptionally vulnerable and generally have low advocacy. Her extreme approach was totally inappropriate on that basis alone. I also imagine the “permanently closed” status of her private practice is indicative of something, as is Yale speaking out that her lecture was antithetical to the values of the school. I will not be surprised to see more professionals speaking out against her approach.

I don’t need to put her assessment in the context of anything when I reject her entire approach full-stop. Rage begets rage. I won’t sit here from my cozy white life and tell people to “calm down” or that no one has a right to hurt, fear, etc…that would be as cruel as it is ignorant. I am not naive to the suffering - many of my friends are POCs and other demographics that are regularly targeted by bigotry and hate. You aren’t the only white girl here who grew up in the hood! Except I was chunky AND 6ft tall :lol:

So why would I tolerate bigotry in any form? I detest it. She can soften her language after her initial diatribe, and I see that her language was taken out of context, but at that point it doesn’t matter. She said antagonist, deliberately violent things to upset people and make them feel threatened. No, I will not tolerate that. Her words were reminiscent of those directly from hate groups, who also believe they are deeply justified in their hatred and in fact may see themselves as heroes.

“For the greater good” is total B.S. The field of psychology has done plenty of atrocious things for the greater good…and at a time when people are already suspicious of science and the medical community, what she did is damning for the entire sector IMO.

I don’t think she is sick, I think she abused her power and authority to intentionally cause harm, and she used her credentials to substantiate ridiculous, generalized mental diagnoses.

I like debate, so please don’t interpret my words as attacks. If I come off as too snarky please tell me so…it’s a fun forum that (generally) stays civil…so I see it as a safe space to test out ideas!
 
Last edited:

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
22,351
Really Yssie? But put a racist brown skinned Indian in a hoodie late at night walking through an affluent white neighborhood and.... The power imbalance between POC and whites is the crux of the matter.

I don’t dispute that at all. It adds a remarkable degree of WTF to an already baffling situation.

But this is probably a very tangential discussion. Sorry for taking conversation elsewhere folks.
 

Matata

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Messages
7,813
You mean w/o being murdered by another POC. How many blacks were killed by whites in Chicago for the past 10 yrs?.

Really sad to hear that certain political party are brainwashing POC into believing that whites are hunting them down on the streets every day when in fact more POC are killing each other.

Whites kill each other more than POC kill whites. It's a matter of proximity. You'll find the same to be true of Asians and Hispanics. You can find the data on the FBI website where you'll also see that whites commit more violent crimes than blacks. Then if you're interested in fact over opinion, you can search to see how many whites are prosecuted for various crimes versus black prosecution for the same crimes. Guess who gets prosecuted more? (Hint: it's not whites)

Edited to add: you can find fbi crime data by year here: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls
 
Last edited:

Matata

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Messages
7,813
I like debate, so please don’t interpret my words as attacks. If I come off as too snarky please tell me so…it’s a fun forum that (generally) stays civil…so I see it as a safe space to test out ideas!

I completely understand and agree with your position about her. I also like how she did what she did. On a different day perhaps I would have been shocked about what she said and where she said it. But yesterday and today, her remarks resonate with me -- not necessarily because I think she is completely accurate in her assessment of white people but because she has stirred the pot in a different way and offered a challenge that I think needs to be given more thought and research particularly in the pathology of hate https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ven-stage-hate-model-the-psychopathology-hate

The duality of my position in various discussions here might confuse people. Were you here during the abortion discussions? There were a fair number of people who were flabbergasted and could not understand when I said I think it's a heinous act and still supported a woman's right to choose. There are certain things that I believe are unequivocally evil or good and all else are shades of gray.
 

Cerulean

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
2,143
I completely understand and agree with your position about her. I also like how she did what she did. On a different day perhaps I would have been shocked about what she said and where she said it. But yesterday and today, her remarks resonate with me -- not necessarily because I think she is completely accurate in her assessment of white people but because she has stirred the pot in a different way and offered a challenge that I think needs to be given more thought and research particularly in the pathology of hate https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ven-stage-hate-model-the-psychopathology-hate

The duality of my position in various discussions here might confuse people. Were you here during the abortion discussions? There were a fair number of people who were flabbergasted and could not understand when I said I think it's a heinous act and still supported a woman's right to choose. There are certain things that I believe are unequivocally evil or good and all else are shades of gray.

I agree there needs to be more investigation. I just think…she shot herself in the foot with her aggressive approach. I just can’t imagine that alienating white people is the answer. I’m not saying “don’t poke the bear” but why stomp on the bear’s foot and then say “but don’t worry, I see you’re hurt too”? But maybe the point isn’t to heal, then. If the point is to feel satisfied with ones own rage, to normalize rage, even if it’s justified…maybe her approach makes sense. And so I come back to…well that sucks! She sucks!

She reminds me of an Israeli Jew I was friends with who talked openly about her deep hatred of all Germans because of the Holocaust. She didn’t realize I was Ashkenazi and German when she spoke to me. Her hatred was a warm blanket that made her feel safe, and it wasn’t rational. I felt a lot of contempt towards her and deep sadness because of it. There’s no path forward if there’s hate in your heart. That doesn’t mean you don’t grieve, don’t scream, don’t have flashes of rage…but holding onto it, spreading it, fostering it…you’ve lost the battle before you’ve begun.

I think duality of viewpoints is essentially necessary to participate in a society.

I hold my personal views, but I also uphold higher standards that protect the views of people I disagree with. I may suffer some cognitive dissonance…like with Dr. Khilalani, I think what she did is insidious and that she should’ve been screened out by Yale before she ever spoke publicly, but now that it’s happened…I don’t believe her lectures should be banned or censored.
 

Matata

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Messages
7,813
Once we realize we are all bound together and our peaceful existence is forever tied perhaps change for the better can occur.

So true and one way to begin that is to disavow the notion that there are separate races when there is only one -- the human race. There is so much that has been written about race as a social construct that I'm surprised there isn't more focus put on eradicating the notion of separate races.

 

rainydaze

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
3,038
I think her feelings are quite natural for anyone who has lived with abuse. Individuals respond differently to abuse, and her response sounds quite familiar to me as one of the ways in which people respond. As such, I am not alarmed. I am listening.

The one aspect that did make me uncomfortable is that she generalizes every white person as fitting her profile and that her fantasy to kill white people makes no distinctions, no allowances for the individual. But isn't that the overall environment white people in America have created for people of color? If they're black, they must have done it? If they're black, they were up to no good? If they're black, shoot first ask questions later? So, it's not much of a stretch, really. I think she's asking, how does it feel? It doesn't feel good.

Sometimes you have to lay it out there in bare-bones, no-holding-back terms to get the attention of people who need to hear it. So many people - sooooo many people - are shockingly unable to put themselves in another person's shoes even for silly everyday things, so forget about something that impacts a person as much as a baseline to their life experience.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
2,741
Hi,

I would think our Dr is thinking rationally. The news has been covering, in particular police actions against black men, provoking a good portion of the population to face this institutional racism and to demand action. Certainly, in this respect blacks are oppressed. The anger that comes with this truth begets hateful, IMO deserved thoughts I would think the people who hate you, evoke a hate back which is rational.

The Jews were slaughtered and oppressed, and spent years tracking down the oppressors. They didn't forget what happened to them. Blacks, in this country , have been patient. The fact a mental heath individual put her thinking out there should not be surprising, I see many on here want to be the thought police. I wouldn't call her racist, i would her oppressed.

David Duke acts upon his thoughts about White Supremacy. This women is not advocating Black Supremacy.

Nice to see you again Red.

Annette
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,170
Then if you're interested in fact over opinion, you can search to see how many whites are prosecuted for various crimes versus black prosecution for the same crimes. Guess who gets prosecuted more? (Hint: it's not whites)

FYI, The latest attacks against elderly Chinese in NYC (hint) aren't whites.
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    Father's Day Jewelry: 2021
    Father's Day Jewelry: 2021
    Diamond Prices - June 2021
    Diamond Prices - June 2021
    Guess What: Dispersion and Fire Aren't the Same Thing
    Guess What: Dispersion and Fire Aren't the Same Thing

Need expert help finding that diamonds?

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top