Thoughts Please: 2 Days to Decide & 2 Contenders (Diamonds)

[RAMdiamond]

Hey Folks,

Hope you don''t mind, I''m starting a new thread because my last one went a little all-over-the-place!

So by Friday (2 days) I need to pick a diamond in order to have it set and ready for our formal engagement ceremony. Please share any thoughts everyone, your help so far has been wonderful!

** STONE #1 HCA = 1.0, LOCAL JEWELER, VIEWED TODAY, HEARTS & ARROWS PATTERN, $5000 USD, PHYSICAL STORE **

PROS: @ Laser Inscribed, @ Jeweler claims this diameter spread is better than stone #2 and that girdle compared to stone #2 makes it more durable, H&A Pattern

CONS: @ Setting done off-site. @ I''m not 100% comfortable with Jeweler but stone is beautiful!

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.46 - 6.52 x 3.94 mm
Carat Weight: 1.01 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: 60.7%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 34.0°
Crown Height: 14.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Comments: Additional clouds are not shown.

** STONE #2 HCA = 0.8, MARTIN @ USA CERTIFIED DIAMONDS, BUY TO VIEW, H&A Unknown, $4800 USD **

PROS: @ Better HCA score. @ Slightly lower price @ A bit more comfortable with jeweler

CONS: @ Never seen it before. @ Not a retailer @ According to Jeweler #1 poorer spread & girdle

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.44 - 6.50 x 3.96 mm
Carat Weight: 1.01 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: 61.2%
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 35.0°
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 55%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted (3.0%)
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

 

[yssie]

Spread is 0.02mm difference... they're absolutely the same.


Numbers on both look good.


HCA under 2 is good. 0.8 is not better than 1.0, which is not better than 1.8. Numbers and images trump HCA score.


Only way to confirm H&A is to see a hearts image under a H&A viewer - if that's important to you, you'd need an image for #2.


I prefer a girdle that breaches two grades over one that spans three. There's nothing wrong with the girdle or spread of #2 - your local jeweller is making stuff up to make the sale...big turnoff, that.

 

[RAMdiamond]

Thanks yssie!

For stone #1, I did see the H&A with a H&A viewer. If it turns out that stone #2 does not have H&A would that tip the scales in favour of #1??

Please feel free to weigh in everyone if you can, thanks!

 

[yssie]

If H&A is important to you, then it would

My personal scale is already tipped against vendor 1 though, because he makes you uncomfortable and because he was deliberately dishonest in his attempts to sway you against another vendor.

 

[RAMdiamond]

Yeah that iffy feeling is what's stopping me from pulling the trigger with jeweler #1; the only plus is that I've had a chance to look at it before buying.

H&A ... I read the education on pricescope and the article link ... can't tell if this 'should' matter to me or not as it doesn't seem to gurantee anything...any advice there?

 

[yssie]

H&A guarantees perfect optical symmetry.


This, by itself, doesn't guarantee anything about performance - you can have perfect heart and arrow formations in a poorly performing stone, and you can have a fantastic stone with skewed hearts.



Most vendors who sell a H&A brand have other requirements for those stones - the numbers must fall into a very specific range, and these ranges are general crowd-pleasers. Go with a GOG sig. or WF ACA, infinity, etc. and you're guaranteed to have a well-performing stone that is also H&A.

 

[RAMdiamond]

Thanks yssie!

I wish I could see both stones before buying but I can't!

The other thing I forgot to mention is that Jeweller #1 offered not to charge the 13% tax (that's how much we pay in Toronto, Ontario) if I didn't get a reciept... that does raise a flag but then if I get an independent gemological and valuation appraisal would I be alright?

 

[yssie]

Date: 1/27/2010 10:28:23 PM
Author: RAMdiamond
Thanks yssie!

I wish I could see both stones before buying but I can't!

The other thing I forgot to mention is that Jeweller #1 offered not to charge the 13% tax (that's how much we pay in Toronto, Ontario) if I didn't get a reciept... that does raise a flag but then if I get an independent gemological and valuation appraisal would I be alright?

Whoa, seriously? What, does this guy not have a registered business??


That's not just dishonest, that's outright illegal. Please, please stay away from him! Besides, without a receipt - without proof of payment... just how would you complain and prove it if (when) something goes wrong?

 

[RAMdiamond]

Thanks yssie!

Yes, I completely agree with you. He does have a registered business but his ethics are a bit questionable... I was introduced to him through a friend of a friend and they had a good experience .. he has been in business fof over 20 years. He has a rather old school way of doing businss with customers from his own ethnic community especially or so I here at least.

My gut is saying stay away and most likely I will do exactly that. The only concern I have now is if I buy from Martin Sheffield who will I get to set my diamond in Toronto? Toronto information seems hard to come by!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have had a diamond "wholesaler" offer me the same deal. In my opinion, it is just a sign of general poor business practice. What recourse will you have to return, efund, or disputethe veracity of the grading of the diamond if you have no receipt? It simply leaves you open to too many future problems in my opinion.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/27/2010 9:36:31 PM
Author:RAMdiamond

CONS: @ Never seen it before. @ Not a retailer @ According to Jeweler #1 poorer spread & girdle

Same spread

The girdle is fine. Walk away from that jeweler.

Can you view the diamond from martin before committing? Will he get you an IS?

I don''t care about H&A personally. And btw, with stone one it is not enough to simple look in a viewer yourself and see hearts and an untrained viewer. There is more to it than that and for it to be sold as an H&A I would want to see a proper image that I could scrutinize.

 

[RAMdiamond]

Thanks dreamer_dachsie!

All great points, you''re right I have no idea whether the H&A are of sufficient quality, etc.

I''m meeting Martin tomorrow after work and so far he has been great over phone and email; already feeling more comfortable with him.

As for Jeweller #1, when I met with him today I had asked if I could take it for an independent appraisal before purchasing and he seemed to agree although he was insisting that he could do it himself via gemscan as he was certified...

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/28/2010 12:02:36 AM
Author: RAMdiamond
Thanks dreamer_dachsie!

All great points, you''re right I have no idea whether the H&A are of sufficient quality, etc.

I''m meeting Martin tomorrow after work and so far he has been great over phone and email; already feeling more comfortable with him.

As for Jeweller #1, when I met with him today I had asked if I could take it for an independent appraisal before purchasing and he seemed to agree although he was insisting that he could do it himself via gemscan as he was certified...

Then its hardly independent is it

Seriously, it is not worth your tim with that guy. Yes, the diamond may be nice, but you *never* know what can happen after a sale is complete and that is when a good vendor with a great reputation really comes in.

Try a search on USA certed, I have only read good things. There are no upgrades or buyback there, though, a simple buy the diamond end of story thing. But for what it is, his Martin has a good reputation.

 

[RAMdiamond]

Thanks dreamer_dachsie!

Yeah it pretty much felt like I was going toe-to-toe with that guy.. his way vs the way I wanted i.e. appraisals, reciepts, etc. Leaves a customer not feeling very secure with the purchase at all...

Hopefully it will go well with Martin tomorrow at usacertified.. Will update this thread with what happens there.. just am weary of getting it set independently... with no experience to boot in that area I have to admit to feeling a little anxious about that getting done correctly...

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/28/2010 12:35:05 AM
Author: RAMdiamond
Thanks dreamer_dachsie!

Yeah it pretty much felt like I was going toe-to-toe with that guy.. his way vs the way I wanted i.e. appraisals, reciepts, etc. Leaves a customer not feeling very secure with the purchase at all...

Hopefully it will go well with Martin tomorrow at usacertified.. Will update this thread with what happens there.. just am weary of getting it set independently... with no experience to boot in that area I have to admit to feeling a little anxious about that getting done correctly...

And the problem with insurance in Canada is that you cannot insure it during the setting process since you cannot get insurance for a loose diamond here. Honestly, this exact issue is why I purshaced from Whitefalsh and Brian Gavin Diamonds, because I trusted their diamonds and because they could set the diamond for me and would take responsibvility for it. Just me personally, I would not risk a 3rd party setting my diamond when it was uninsured.

 

[RAMdiamond]

One thing that no one commented on was laser inscription. Stone #1 has it but #2 does not... thoughts on that..?

After a diamond is set, how can you be certain it''s the same diamond that you had appraised?

 

[yssie]

The inclusion plot. Never changes, can't be buffed off.


You could pay to have it inscribed yourself, too - I believe the fee is under $100?