shape
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Thoughts on this transitional diamond?

bleeblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
256
This was an impulse purchase for me :o

The centre diamond was described as 1.15ct H Si transitional cut

I looks warmer in the photos than a H and I can also see some feathers in the photo at 11 o'clock which make me think it might be more of an I1 (but I've never had a diamond this size before). I will send it to be appraised once I receive it and the seller has said that I can return it if it's not as described.

However, while I'm eagerly (and impatiently) waiting for it to arrive I'd love your expert thoughts about whether the cut is a transitional cut and also any comments on the clarity of the diamond (do you think it's in the Si range?).

TIA!

1.33ctw Transitional Diamond Ring 2 (small).JPG

1.33ctw Transitional Diamond Ring 1 (small).JPG
 

Upgradable

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Messages
5,537
Very pretty!! Clarity looks okay by this picture. You can tell more in 3-D. As for type of stone... low crown, larger table, small-medium culet, regular faceting. I'm going to agree with the "transitional" label. Congratulations!!!
 

natascha

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
644
That looks stunning! Love the setting and the stone looks very pretty to. From the pics I would say it is probable that it is an SI. I am with Upgradable, it looks like a transitional.

Please post more pictures when you get it. The ring is really lovely.
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
11,025
it's hard to tell color from pictures- but i dont think it looks yellow from the picture. As for clarity definitely looks like it could be SI quality. Definitely send it off to a lab and get their opinion. I think it looks lovely and the setting is divine! :appl:
 

Mrs.H.

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
49
I was watching this one - congratulations!
If Im not mistaken it was listed as I colour not H :)
 

bleeblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
256
Thanks Upgradable, natascha, Amys Bling and Mrs.H.

You're right Mrs.H – the description was I Si, I miss typed that in my earlier post :oops:
 

Mrs.H.

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
49
:naughty: It looks positively spectacular - and at the price you got it for, you practically stole it! Hmm kicking myself a little...

Keep us posted - most of the old cuts are listed in the US meaning a few hundred dollars extra to import them :angryfire:

Enjoy your new rock :mrgreen: cant wait to see more pics!
 

bleeblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
256
Mrs.H.|1315451607|3012301 said:
:naughty: It looks positively spectacular - and at the price you got it for, you practically stole it! Hmm kicking myself a little...

Keep us posted - most of the old cuts are listed in the US meaning a few hundred dollars extra to import them :angryfire:

Enjoy your new rock :mrgreen: cant wait to see more pics!

Thanks again Mrs.H - the price was a little bit above what I had put away as "money for sparklies" but the ring was so enticing that I just had to make an offer on it (DH doesn't know yet... :halo: ). This is a major purchase for me and I'm actully a little nervous about the ring not arriving/going missing in transit etc. Fingers crossed that it all works out.
 

KaeKae

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
2,310
Gorgeous setting! I'm far from a cut expert, but the stone looks beautiful to me. I hope you love it!
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
12,214
Gorgeous stone! Enjoy! :appl: :appl: :appl:
 

junebug17

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
13,178
Wow, looks beautiful!! Nothing jumping out at me with regard to clarity, that's for sure. Looks to me to be a lovely stone, and the setting is gorgeous! Hope you love it, and post pics when you get it!
 

heliotrope

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
291
stunning ring - I love the detail in the setting - please do update us all with pics once it arrives

:love: :love: :love:
 

GamGam

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
129
What a beautiful ring!! :love: I love, love the setting. Hope it works out well for you. Please post more photos....
 

bleeblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
256
Ok - I received the ring today and took it straight to get valued. I told the valuer to give me a call once it had been appraised so that I could decide whether to have re-sized or now (as I can't return it if it has been resized).

Well I just got a call from the valuer who told me that the diamond is more K I1 :sick: . I'm at a loss as to what to do! It's very pretty but I don't know if I can live with the specs. :cry:
 

arjunajane

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
9,758
bleeblue|1315898412|3016340 said:
Ok - I received the ring today and took it straight to get valued. I told the valuer to give me a call once it had been appraised so that I could decide whether to have re-sized or now (as I can't return it if it has been resized).

Well I just got a call from the valuer who told me that the diamond is more K I1 :sick: . I'm at a loss as to what to do! It's very pretty but I don't know if I can live with the specs. :cry:

hi blue - firstly, don't get too worried too quickly just yet.
have you used this person's services before?
And, most importantly, are they an Independent appraiser?? Or are they attached to a jeweller, even in a way that isn't immediately noticeable?

I don't know what you paid, but what matters is that you love the look of the diamond (you say it is pretty), and that when you obtain the True specs, you can figure if you paid in the fair range or no.
Did you get wowed by the diamond when you opened it? Or was it more of a 'that's pretty', but not "I love it"?
Try to be honest about your first impressions, putting all colour and clarity grades out of the picture, just your impressions of the appearance of the diamond.. ::)

Can you explain why it can't be returned? If it is indeed that many levels difference in both colour and clarity from what was advertised, than you have a right to argue a return, even if they have a no returns policy, imho...However, you need your facts 100% straight before contacting the seller if you wish to go the refund route.
Alternatively, sometimes when this happens, other PSers have negotiated partial refunds (like a discount) to make up for the difference between what they thought they were paying for, and what they actually received..perhaps your seller will be open to this idea?

But the key here, and first thing you should be doing, is having the diamond independently evaluated.
Many appraisers are biased against internet purchasing in general and like to 'punish' consumers for choosing that route; or are telling you false or exaggerated info to scare you, so you return your 'crappy' internet rip-off diamond and buy from them or their super trustworthy mate instead; or they are ignorant of the finer points of diamond grading and their methods and tools are out of date; or are not familiar with the nuances of how to grade old cuts compared to modern ones- or really any and all of the above!! If this is the case, the 'appraisal' is worth no more than the paper it is printed on..
Out of curiosity, did they agree with the size/weight and did they know what kind of cut of RB it is?

As I said, I don't know if you have used this person before and trust them..so a bit more info on how you found them, what their professional qualifications are etc would be helpful here in order to give you better advice..

Finding a truly independent, honest and skilled appraiser is just like finding a true bargain old cut diamond on ebay that is everything its advertised to be - it can be done, but they are rare, and few and far between ;))
 

bleeblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
256
Thank you for your post arjunajane.

I have used the appraiser that I took the ring to and I trust their appraisals. They are very reputable in Melbourne (Australia) where I am located. The person conducting the appraisal is a Registered Valuer with the National Council of Jewellery Valuers and is also a former president of the Gemmological Association of Australia.

Sorry if I didn't explain properly above - the seller said that I could return the ring for a refund if it wasn't as described. Therefore, I can return the ring if I wish. However, I'm conflicted with returning it because I really like the ring and I had that "wow" moment when I opened the box but at the same time I've got mind clean issues with the specs.

To be honest, I SI is right at the very, very rock bottom of my mind clean scale. So now finding out that the diamond is a K I1 really doesn't sit well with me. But, the ring is so pretty... :cry:

I didn't ask about the size and weight over the phone as I was actually soo shocked that the colour and clarity was off that I was a bit speechless. I will call again tomorrow to find out about the size and weight of the diamond and hopefully that will help me make a decision. I also should be able to pick up the appraisal/valuation in the afternoon.
 

Kismet

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2005
Messages
2,991
I'd ask him what makes up his I1 rating. Quite often older stones will have nicks along the girdle which can be polished out but stone itself is relatively free of inclusions.
 

coati

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
21,747
I'd also consider the price paid, as a K I1 will cost significantly less. Would a discount from the seller be acceptable or does the mind clean issue outweigh any potential price break? I can see the feathers in the stone from the photo, and it sounds like you have an appraiser you trust. Clarity grades are based on the number, size, visibility, location, and types of inclusions. The stone appears to have multiple feathers. Definitely make sure the carat weight matches what the seller sold you. You did indicate a wow feeling when you first opened the box-is the stone eye clean? ...enough to help with the mind clean issue in any case? If not, I'm glad to hear you can return the ring. Good luck!
 

bleeblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
256
coatimundi|1315932523|3016597 said:
I'd also consider the price paid, as a K I1 will cost significantly less. Would a discount from the seller be acceptable or does the mind clean issue outweigh any potential price break? I can see the feathers in the stone from the photo, and it sounds like you have an appraiser you trust. Clarity grades are based on the number, size, visibility, location, and types of inclusions. The stone appears to have multiple feathers. Definitely make sure the carat weight matches what the seller sold you. You did indicate a wow feeling when you first opened the box-is the stone eye clean? ...enough to help with the mind clean issue in any case? If not, I'm glad to hear you can return the ring. Good luck!

Coatie, do you know what would be a fair price for K I1 1 ct old cut stone? I haven't contacted the seller yet as I want to decide exactly what I want to do before doing that.

The stone does appear eyeclean at first glance - it's not until I start staring at it for a long time that I start noticing the feathers.
 

Mrs.H.

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
49
I've been wondering how this turned out for you.

I was watching this and was tempted by it so I know what you paid. If it were me I would be asking these questions of myself.
How do I feel about the diamond? AJ writes far more elquetenly than I and raises some really good points.

Do you think the price you paid was fair considering that the diamond is:
a) in a ring
b) already in Australia therefore no import duty at customs
c) we know grading can be a little off person to person because it cant be exact, I/J/K/L/M range for the old cuts is my personal sweet spot, they throw the colours i adore that you just dont get in the whiter variety. How does the colour appear to you?

Ok so if its a K I1 and it looks really clean until you start staring at it, you had that "wow" factor when you opened it it sounds like you love it until it gets to the specs. If specs are going to bother you every time you stare at an otherwise fabulous piece of history then you need to return it and continue your quest. I've had the same trouble with gradings - they know a stone was bought from an estate or online and they drop the gradings a bit (even just a tad works) and you immediately dont feel as good about your purchase. This may or may not have been the case. Maybe a second opinion.The only way to know for sure is to send it to GIA. Is this something you would consider? If its of any help I find I get less prejudiced information when I mention its my grandma's old diamond I inherited (therefore less second hand/online/ebay thoughts that could be running through their head which Im sure can influence their opinion - just my 2 cents worth anyway.)

For the better colour/clarity in old cuts its going to cost alot more to source. Plus even if it was say $2000 for a K I1 (assuming the I1 presents as nicely as you say this one does with nothing glaring out at you) by the time you import it to Australia, pay the duty (you can tell i hate that lol!), sweat bullets it will arrive to you safely, then find a ring for it to go in if it isnt already in one you love, do you think you would be in a better position than the one you are in now? Then I guess any added expense of returns etc should they need to be factored in.

Those are some of the things I run through my mind when Im deciding on keeping/returning. I love trannys because they seem to be all different. Í own a few (as many as my collecting budget will allow!) because its my favourite cut, no two are the same. I love the uniqueness of each one.
Give the diamond a little room to breathe, look at it in different lighting, especially diffused evening light and watch the colours it throws. Decide if your a specs girl and if its "mind clean"enough for you or if you enjoy the diamond for what it is, perfect as it was from nature (plus a bit of cutting ;-) ) at a price that is right for you.

Hope this helps! Let us know how you get on :)
 

bleeblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
256
Thanks for helping me put things into perspective Mrs.H.

I've just picked up the ring and the valuation documents. The centre diamond has been appraised as Si2 K with a weight of aprox 1 carat. I was told that the SI2 is really borderline SI2/I1 (but I'm actully quite relieved that it ended up leaning towards the SI2 end of the scale). I asked about the girdle as suggested by Kismet (thanks Kismet!) and I was informed that the girdle is in resonable condition and the low clarity grade was due to the number and position of the inclusions in the diamond which has affected its brilliance. I was also told that the facets are a bit off.

I'm going to have a play with the ring and see how I feel about it over the next day or so knowing the specs as Mrs.H. puts it:

Give the diamond a little room to breathe, look at it in different lighting, especially diffused evening light and watch the colours it throws. Decide if your a specs girl and if its "mind clean"enough for you or if you enjoy the diamond for what it is, perfect as it was from nature (plus a bit of cutting ;-) ) at a price that is right for you.

I must say that seller has been really good with this whole process and is happy for me to consider things over the next couple of days before I have to make a decision.

I will try to take some pics and post them tonight.
 

Mrs.H.

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
49
Im looking forward to seeing some more pics.
What kind of ring would this be for? Right hand?
I bet its got nice finger coverage - make sure you post hand shots!
How are you feeling now that you have it in your hot little hands? Any drooling?
I guess the faceting being a "little off'' is probably forgivable considering the diamond was cut about 70-80 years ago hehe.
Cant wait to hear all about it
 

bleeblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
256
I took some photos but none of them came out really well :(sad

These are the best of the lot - one taken under sunlight on my left hand next to my ER and the second one on my right hand (I would like this to be a RHR if I keep it) under indoor lighting.

Transitional Ring Handshot 1.JPG

Transitional Ring Handshot 2.JPG
 

Mrs.H.

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
49
WOW :love:

that is some serious coverage - it looks MASSIVE :mrgreen:

Looks like you have some deciding to do! Im glad the seller is helpful, I have asked her a few questions but never purchased and she seems lovely. One less stress if you dont have to fight for a refund IKYWIM

I've got her saved incase she posts any more bling :naughty:

Do let us know how it goes, I am totally in love with that style so if you happen to re-set I'd love a heads up on the mount ;-)
 

bleeblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
256
I thought I should report back to let everyone know that I have decided to keep the ring. The ring is just to pretty and I couldn't part with it.

Its K warmth is quite obvious in some lighting but under the lift lighting it faces up very white (like a G) - I've really got to work out what type of lights they use in the lifts!

I've taken a few more shots in the sunlight for everyone using my coffee cup as a makeshift stand :lol:

Transitional Ring Photo 3.JPG

Transitional Ring Photo 5.JPG

Transitional Ring Photo 6.JPG
 

Mrs.H.

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
49
Yay! I wondered how you would go deciding!
Congratulations I hope you enjoy your new bling!
 

Rhea

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
6,388
Glad you decided to keep it! I love the setting, so pretty, and the diamond is a stunner - whatever it's offical colour and clarity!
 

bleeblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
256
Thanks again Mrs.H. and Addy! I think I'll get many years of enjoyment out of it as a RHR. The setting does give a LOT of finger coverage so I think it will keep DSS at bay. :bigsmile:

Thanks also to KaeKae, AprilBaby, junebug17, heliotrope, GamGam, arjunajane, Kismet, coatimundi who I forgot to thank earlier in my fit of panic. :oops:

The ring currently being resized – I've also asked that the diamond be rotated slightly so that the facets are more lined up with the setting – I'm a stickler for symmetry and I know it'll bother me otherwise.

What I have learnt from this experience is that I am very colour sensitive and I don't think I mind a bit of warmth in older cut stones (sort of adds to their charm in a way). However, my colour sensitivity may be a problem if I ever want to upgrade my ering as I don't think I could go below a F in a step cut or a G in a brilliant cut (and even then it would have to be cut very well so it faces up whiter). Oh well, that would be years down the track anyway!
 
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