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Thoughts on this stone?

N

NewDiamondDude

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
11
1.477
H VS1
AGS Cut 0
Light Polish and symmetry 0
Table 55.6
Depth 62.1
Crown 34.1
Pavilion 40.9

This scores a 1.3 HCA
I'm a little concerned about the crown, should I be?
It also looks a little deep, any of these concerns?
What would be a fair price for this retail and private party?
Thanks for all your input in advance.

_7373.jpg
 
I agree with tyty, that the stone is fine. Typically most PSers suggest buying stones on the secondary market at 50-70% of retail. Of course the buyer doesn't have to accept that, so I guess that if I were making an offer, I would bid low to see just how motivated they are to sell and work up from there. Do you know the date of the report? Is there any new damage? That could significantly alter the value of the stone. Can you have the sale contingent on an appraisal stating that the stone is in the same condition that is listed on the report? You should also consider that you would be buying without a return period and with no upgrade or trade in options. This isn't important to some people and it's very important to others, I would make sure my bid reflected what I was giving up in terms of a retail purchase.
 
Tyty – Thank you for calming my nerves on the depth and crown angles. That James Allen diamond looks great to me too.

Christina – The stone is new from a retailer I’m sorry I wasn't clearer on that point. It’s a new report and even comes with a AGS Scintillation Report which I had never seen before.

The proportions on the stone look good, it score good with HCA, the scintillation report is perfect but WHAT ABOUT THE HEARTS AND ARROWS? I have an appointment to look at the stone next week. As everyone on here always says you gotta see it in person.

Thank you TyTy, Christina and all the others that contribute in a positive informative way. I've learned so much and I'm sure it will pay off, hopefully with this stone I've selected.

_7416.jpg
 
You would need the post the hearts and arrows images if you want people to take a look on it for you. The reports you posted doesn't show any.
 
Is it being sold as an H&A?
 
It's probably not a true hearts and arrows (since they'd be marketing it as such and it would cost more...IF they could prove it), but ideal cut is very nice. Be careful because stones that close to 1.5 cts can be priced as high per carat as 1.5's, and it might make more sense to get a 1.5. I have seen that before in my own searches.
 
Is HA important to you? Perfect optical symmetry is important to some people and not so much to others. The fact the stone is an AGS0 does not alone indicate that it's HA, only that the stone has been determined by AGS to have optimal light performance. LP and HA are two different things and you can have one without the other. As DE already mentioned, we really can't tell you anything about the hearts view unless you can post images taken with a hearts and arrows viewer, but based solely on the computer generated images, I'm guessing that this is not a HA stone, again though that wouldn't mean that it isn't a beautiful and well performing stone, only that it doesn't have perfect optical symmetry. Oh, it's almost important to understand that symmetry as stated on the report only indicates physical symmetry, not optical symmetry....those are different too. Physical symmetry refers to facet alignment, wavy girdle, off center table or culet, mis-shapened facets, etc. Optical symmetry deals strictly with the hearts and arrows view, created by cutting to optimal proportions and tight variances. This is not noted on the grading report and must be assessed through a hearts and arrows viewer. If this stone is being sold to you as a HA stone, then you are likely paying a premium and you should ask for proof that it is indeed HA.
 
First thank you all for you input, it is very much appreciated.

I don’t have a H&A photo for this stone, because it’s not H&A. It just looks like an ideal proportion stone, or maybe I should say its close to Ideal.

I should preface this question with first saying I haven’t had the opportunity to view a truly perfect stone from W.F. or B.G. or any of the other super ideal stone sites. The question I’m about to ask has been discussed here often but maybe not in this way. The question has to do with whether to buy a H&A stone of true perfection or a stone with ideal physical symmetry/light performance but a non H&A both stones having the same statistics(Clarity, Color, Proportions, and weight). The cost I'm seeing to upgrade from this stone listed to a stone of utter perfection including perfect H&A will end up costing a third more in price. At the end of the day will I be able to notice the difference and if so is the increase warranted? More important will my bride to be notice a difference. Since I'm on a fixed budget if I end up going the direction of perfection, I will need to downgrade in one or more of the C's.
 
Looks great! Nothing to worry about. It IS an ideal, not just close.
 
IMO opinion you will not be able to visually appreciate the differences between a near HA stone and a true HA in almost any lighting environment. Many (most???) experienced trades people can not discern a near HA and true HA without examination. This stone has already been determined by AGSL to have optimal light performance so would I personally pay the premium for HA? Nope. Should you? Idk. As julieN said, this stone IS an ideal cut diamond. Remember only about 1% of all diamonds are cut to true HA standards so its unlikely your gf has ever seen one let alone be able to tell that hers isn't one. But again, its a mind clean thing for some people, they like knowing that their diamond has been cut to the strictest of standards. You may be one of these people. If you will constantly wonder if you should have purchased a HA then maybe you should consider paying the premium for future peace of mind.
 
Well if most trade people can’t tell the difference without examination I seriously doubt I will. During the buying process I might be conscious of the fact that I’m not buying a True H&A stone and that makes me wonder what one might look like but I have to remember where I've come from in this search and what the objective is. I've started off this search with the main objective of not getting taken advantage of. For me the diamond trade was a great mystery, and with the unknown comes uneasiness at least for me. Different angles, proportions, colors, Aset, etc…….With some of the used car salesman type selling out there I decided I needed to arm myself with more knowledge. Learning from everyone here and reading articles, posts and visiting store after store, I started feeling slightly more comfortable with buying something. However I became fixated with finding the best of the best that 1% as you talk about Christina. Perfect hearts and arrows, higher and higher color, bigger carat weight, less and less inclusions, all with a bigger and bigger price tag. But at the end of the day I want something beautiful to memorialize the love I have for my G/F, and the commitment we share, at a fair price with the customer service today and in the future. I think instead of getting that perfect diamond in the top 1% I’ll stay with AGS 0. Mind clean I believe will happen when she puts the ring on, everything else will disappear, at least until the idea of a upgrade comes down the line.

Thank you Pricescope and the wonder people.
 
Christina[color=#FF0000:hwdeqhrz]...|1372081872|3471268 said:
IMO opinion you will not be able to visually appreciate the differences between a near HA stone and a true HA in almost any lighting environment. Many (most???) experienced trades people can not discern a near HA and true HA without examination.[/color] This stone has already been determined by AGSL to have optimal light performance so would I personally pay the premium for HA? Nope. Should you? Idk. As julieN said, this stone IS an ideal cut diamond. Remember only about 1% of all diamonds are cut to true HA standards so its unlikely your gf has ever seen one let alone be able to tell that hers isn't one. But again, its a mind clean thing for some people, they like knowing that their diamond has been cut to the strictest of standards. You may be one of these people. If you will constantly wonder if you should have purchased a HA then maybe you should consider paying the premium for future peace of mind.
Click to expand...

I took the time to read some PS-threads today, and came across a few mentions of 'even experienced people in the trade cannot discern a near-H&A and a true H&A without proper examination'.

Forgive me, but what does this mean?

Of all experienced trades-people active on PS, I guess that I am seeing and inspecting by far the most diamonds on a daily scale, and I must admit:
- I cannot discern IF from VS2 without proper examination,
- I cannot discern D from G without proper examination.
- Guess what, I cannot even see if the stone is a diamond or not, without proper examination.

So, honestly and frankly, what does that statement mean?

Live long,
 
Paul-Antwerp|1372101285|3471459 said:
I took the time to read some PS-threads today, and came across a few mentions of 'even experienced people in the trade cannot discern a near-H&A and a true H&A without proper examination'.

Forgive me, but what does this mean?

Of all experienced trades-people active on PS, I guess that I am seeing and inspecting by far the most diamonds on a daily scale, and I must admit:
- I cannot discern IF from VS2 without proper examination,
- I cannot discern D from G without proper examination.
- Guess what, I cannot even see if the stone is a diamond or not, without proper examination. <--- :lol: :lol: Me either!!

So, honestly and frankly, what does that statement mean?
Click to expand...

This cracked me up! Seriously though, maybe the poster meant "very close examination" or maybe even "proper examination with special equipment or testing"??? :saint: :lol:
 
I think she meant cannot discern with the naked eye the difference between a true H&A and just an ideal cut.
 
How does this report look?

d5907_f.jpg
 
It looks good...you can see that. I would not spend 1/3 more to get an H&A stone. While this one is not an H&A its got
everything that is important (more important to me).
 
I understand Paul’s reaction- very small differences in diamonds do matter. That’s why we carefully evaluate everything. But I think the intent of the question is about tradeoffs and at what point is saving money worth a compromise. In the end it always comes down to a personal calculus. Let’s face it, there is a reason why very few people buy D FL Super Ideals!

There is plenty of great advice available here on this forum about both technical and real world values.

With regard to the scintillation document, it is a brand new report from AGS Laboratories. We posted some info about it here:
http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/diamond-sparkle-the-secrets-of-scintillation-1367.htm
 
If you do not want to pay a premium for a branded diamond, but you still want to guarantee top-top tier performance, I think you should go for a specially selected stone. There are so many factors that go into bringing out the best in a diamond, and having the A-OK from an expert means a lot when you're spending that much money. You can only gain so much from a rotating image, but I would absolutely trust the eyes of a good vendor.

One great-value diamond worth looking at is here (1.5 ct I VS2 for $12,600): http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-default&id=25 . The pavilion facets are pretty broad on this guy, making for big, beautiful flashes.
 
Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply, I appreciate everyone’s thoughts.
Texas Leaguer explained my thoughts well. “The intent of the question is about tradeoffs and at what point is saving money worth a compromise.”
I could go down one color from H to I and down from VS1 to SI1, and come up with more money to get this great looking stone. http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.555-i-si1-round-diamond-ags-104064813028
The HighPerformanceDiamond would be going down one color and one clarity grade with additional money.


The diamond originally posted about (1.477 H VS1) http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104059243007-PLDQR.PDFcauses me a little worry with its inclusions close to the girdle and near the cutlet. Should I be concerned with this VS1?

feathers1.jpg
 
NewDiamondDude said:
The HighPerformanceDiamond would be going down one color and one clarity grade with additional money. ...
Click to expand...

VS1 vs VS2 is pretty inconsequential. In terms of H vs I, most would care more about performance, but H is the threshold not to be crossed for some around here.

I'd call HPD to see how Wink feels about this diamond's performance compared to his Crafted by Infinity inventory (which very comparable to if not better than Brian Gavin Signature as far as precision cut). The diamond I linked, I should note, has VERY similar proportions to BGS diamonds below the girdle (depth is just 0.1 over, crown maybe slightly higher, but 40.8 pav and 75 LGF is very similar to BGS). He's seen BGS, and would likely be able to give you an as honest as possible evaluation.

NewDiamondDude said:
The diamond originally posted about (1.477 H VS1) http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104059243007-PLDQR.PDFcauses me a little worry with its inclusions close to the girdle and near the cutlet. Should I be concerned with this VS1?
Click to expand...
I'll let others with more knowledge comment on that. I normally wouldn't be concerned about a VS1 at all, but the cluster of feathers at the girdle makes me want to defer to an expert.
 
Anyone have any thoughts about the inclusions close to the girdle and near the cutlet?
Thank you!
 
What type of setting are you planning on putting it into?
 
Halo setting.
Also planning on getting insurance with State Farm.
 
Halo, should be fine. If you put it into a setting like a 4 prong or a split prong in each corner I am always paranoid about smacking the diamond against something and creating a chip along the girdle where there are feathers or possibly a weaker area. That said you have to be very unlucky and bump it against something hard and smack it in just the right place which generally is difficult but not impossible to do. You can also chip any diamond without a feather or any inclusions if you bump it hard enough and at the right angle. A halo will protect the stone to a certain degree.
 
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