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mrmessy

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Sep 18, 2008
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this is definitely not the best diamond by any means, but it is large, which is my #1 criteria. #2 is cut, #3 color, #4 clarity.

no cert, so i can only go off of what i was told.

2.26 ct.
H color
SI1

no other numbers. but i have IS pic taken by me, not a pro, so it may not be perfect, but hopefully usable.

The thing is, the asking price is $14k. Is this worth it? Girls love the size of the diamond, right? There was no perfectly cut diamond to compare next to it, so i couldn''t do a comparison.

Let me know your thoughts please.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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I''d never buy such a diamond without a GIA report.

Is this from a store?
 

mrmessy

Rough_Rock
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no, it''s not from a store. an independent broker.

and yes, i know this is not a good diamond and this is the wrong crowd to talk about sacrificing cut for carat, but at the end of the day, what does a woman really care about? the size and sparkly. i really couldn''t say that this was that ugly in person. maybe it''s because i''m a novice and i just don''t know the difference, but to the untrained eye, would this be that ugly? would i be that much better off getting a smaller diamond but better cut? is this price really that bad or is it right for the quality of this diamond? too many questions, i know. sorry about that.

just asking for help, thoughts, and opinions from better informed and educated people than myself.
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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You can get a better stone that is the same size for the same price. Probably not an H SI1, but maybe an I/SI2 or J/SI1.

There is some leakage around the edge, which makes it look smaller.

I think you would notice the difference between it and a better cut stone.

Also, I really don't think it is an SI1...or even an H??? In the picture, it looks pretty warm.
 

Kaleigh

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Cut is king, so I''d pass on this one. I don''t care how big it is....
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/16/2009 4:43:56 PM
Author: mrmessy
another pic
did the vendor send you this picture???

there aren't any prongs!

I really don't understand.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/16/2009 4:51:50 PM
Author: mrmessy
no, it's not from a store. an independent broker.

and yes, i know this is not a good diamond and this is the wrong crowd to talk about sacrificing cut for carat, but at the end of the day, what does a woman really care about? the size and sparkly. i really couldn't say that this was that ugly in person. maybe it's because i'm a novice and i just don't know the difference, but to the untrained eye, would this be that ugly? would i be that much better off getting a smaller diamond but better cut? is this price really that bad or is it right for the quality of this diamond? too many questions, i know. sorry about that.

just asking for help, thoughts, and opinions from better informed and educated people than myself.
mrmessy- I respect the general consensus here- but I am generally a fish swimming against the crowd- I agree with a lot of what you wrote.
I would not suggest buying a poorly cut diamond- but I feel that there's a lot of diamonds called "badly cut" by people simply because of measurements, that are actually pretty well cut. Did you see this diamond? If so, how did it look to your eye?

My main hesitation is the grading, and the report- therefore the representation, and the price.
If the stone is from a diamond broker, they know very well that to prove a grade like H/SI1 they need a GIA report ( or AGSL)
By deduction, we can assume that the diamond is NOT an H/SI1 for these reasons. Yet the price is no bargain considering the lack of report.
Looking at the IS photo, I see what looks like a fairly large inclusion at about 11:00- right at the girdle. There's also a feather at about 3:00- also on the girdle. Plus some stuff in the table- it looks worse than an SI1 if the photo is accurate.

If you were saying $10k, I'd be a lot more comfortable with the deal. I still don't know that I'd say it ws a good deal, but 14k makes this an easier call.
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/16/2009 5:39:02 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

My main hesitation is the grading, and the report- therefore the representation, and the price.
If the stone is from a diamond broker, they know very well that to prove a grade like H/SI1 they need a GIA report ( or AGSL) By deduction, we can assume that the diamond is NOT an H/SI1 for these reasons. Yet the price is no bargain considering the lack of report. Looking at the IS photo, I see what looks like a fairly large inclusion at about 11:00- right at the girdle. There's also a feather at about 3:00- also on the girdle. Plus some stuff in the table- it looks worse than an SI1 if the photo is accurate.
Me too.

Q: Why would a dealer sacrifice significant market value by not having a 2ct+ diamond graded.
A: Something on the grading report would deter people from buying it.

Two observations, a simple question and a bit of advice.

1. The under-table leakage and leakage at the edges will make it appear smaller than it is.
2. The amount of table reflection is intimidating. The only way I could replicate that in DiamCalc was with to use a 60/42/37 combination. I attempted a wire-frame match but the facet symmetry is far enough out that I can't decisively resolve it and the tilt in your image. The only other diamond photo I had such problems with was a test-diamond in a GIA lab class that was GIA "Fair" in proportions & symmetry. If that diamond is actually near 60/42/37 it would be a GIA Good in cut and AGS 8-10 candidate in light performance.

Question: What is the spread in mm? Based on the leakage and table reflection it's in the steep/deep category, and we don't know girdle particulars. You may be paying for 2.26 but getting a much smaller spread. Anyone with a gauge can answer the spread question.

Advice: If you decide the smaller appearance away from bright lights due to leakage is ok with you, please involve an appraiser. You're looking at enough money to buy a small automobile, yet you have no idea whatsoever of "what's under the hood" here. The tiny extra investment to get an independent appraiser - one who does not sell gems or jewelry and with no affiliation to the seller - is a no-brainer in this case.

I try not to be over-harsh on any diamond considered here, but my spider-sense is a-tingle on this one.
 

mrmessy

Rough_Rock
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Sep 18, 2008
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25
thanks for all of the responses.

the stone is just sitting on the setting to show me somewhat of a demonstration of how it would look in a setting.

the stone looks a little warm i think because of the camera. i do see the feather at the 11 mark. it really didn''t look all that dirty before, and when you look at it in person it doesn''t look that bad.

but in the end, you are right. it only costs a little money to get a cert, so i don''t know why it wouldn''t be certed.

cut is king for sure, but i guess i just need to go to the b&m store for them to show me a bad cut vs a good cut side by side w/ the naked eye.

i do appreciate the community''s feedback. you''ve always been helpful. and next time i promise to make the pics smaller. i didn''t realize they would come out so huge. i thought i shrunk them down enough. guess not.
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 2/16/2009 6:49:29 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 2/16/2009 5:39:02 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

My main hesitation is the grading, and the report- therefore the representation, and the price.
If the stone is from a diamond broker, they know very well that to prove a grade like H/SI1 they need a GIA report ( or AGSL) By deduction, we can assume that the diamond is NOT an H/SI1 for these reasons. Yet the price is no bargain considering the lack of report. Looking at the IS photo, I see what looks like a fairly large inclusion at about 11:00- right at the girdle. There''s also a feather at about 3:00- also on the girdle. Plus some stuff in the table- it looks worse than an SI1 if the photo is accurate.
Me too.

Q: Why would a dealer sacrifice significant market value by not having a 2ct+ diamond graded.
A: Something on the grading report would deter people from buying it.
yup, big red flag. flush this one down the toilet.
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Take some time and read the turtorials here on CUT. Then once you have that knoweldge go out and look at stones. Once you see the top of the top, you will know, this stone is a dog. But you are in the learning process. Go out and explore. I hope that you would consider buying online, you would get an amazing stone, with the best cut out there. I know it's daunting, but we have been through it ourselves. We are here to help you.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/16/2009 6:59:13 PM
Author: mrmessy
thanks for all of the responses.

the stone is just sitting on the setting to show me somewhat of a demonstration of how it would look in a setting.

the stone looks a little warm i think because of the camera. i do see the feather at the 11 mark. it really didn't look all that dirty before, and when you look at it in person it doesn't look that bad.

but in the end, you are right. it only costs a little money to get a cert, so i don't know why it wouldn't be certed.

cut is king for sure, but i guess i just need to go to the b&m store for them to show me a bad cut vs a good cut side by side w/ the naked eye.

i do appreciate the community's feedback. you've always been helpful. and next time i promise to make the pics smaller. i didn't realize they would come out so huge. i thought i shrunk them down enough. guess not.
Sounds like you're on the right track. I never meant to say it was a bad looking diamond in person - just that it's likely not an H/SI1
Once you're looking at a diamond with a GIA report, it will have the measurements, and a cut grade ( if it's a newer than 2006 report) which will tell us a lot more than we know now.

John, were you able to use the IS photo to determine the table size?
 

Indira-London

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
308
That is a lot of good advice from all the previous posters.


I just wanted to add one more picture in case it heps you understand why peope are saying cut is KING and the KEY to VISUAL size

Of these which would you prefer? The gem on the left is actually the SMALLER carat weight but it looks LARGER as it has the better cut quality!

comparison e48872.jpg
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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42,064
Thats a great pic Indira and very useful, thank you!
 

mrmessy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
25
Thanks for all the feedback. I appreciate the help. The last pic was definitely helpful.

I''ve taken the advice and I''m looking online for a diamond. My absolute budget is 15. if you all happen to see anything, let me know!

I''ll be posting for opinions on others I find if you all don''t mind.

thanks a bunch!
 

Todd Gray

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 20, 2009
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While size is certainly a consideration, in my experience nothing looks worse than a large diamond which is poorly cut - people who know diamonds will recognize the diamond as being large, but will also recognize that it lacks visual performance. For your circumstances / preferences, it would be better to focus on cut quality first, carat weight, clarity / color pretty much equally. By focusing on cut, you''ll end up with a diamond with sparkle that will show up from across the room. I would much rather see somebody sacrifice on clarity or color than cut quality, so why not look for something in the range of 2.00 - 2.99 carats with warmer color, such as L-M-N in the SI-1 / SI-2 clarity range? I can''t post specific options because I''m a dealer, but I ran a search and there certainly are options available within your price range that would do nicely. The visual performance provided by a truly well cut diamond will definitely be more noticeable to people admiring the diamond than a few color grades.
 

mrmessy

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Awesome looking stone Gypsy!

so, is a J color really barely yellow, er, warm? curious how much it will show up when mounted on a white band.

Oh, and I personally love the halo settings, but i know that my soon to be does not. she''s loves the clean, contemporary looks. i.e. channel set or even solitaire.

What do you all think about these? I notice that there are a lot of sites that don''t show the cut parameters out there. Can you tell much just by looking at the table and depth percentage?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1176607.asp

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1466934.htm#

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/5550/
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
42,064
Date: 2/19/2009 2:15:56 AM
Author: mrmessy
Awesome looking stone Gypsy!

so, is a J color really barely yellow, er, warm? curious how much it will show up when mounted on a white band.

Oh, and I personally love the halo settings, but i know that my soon to be does not. she's loves the clean, contemporary looks. i.e. channel set or even solitaire.

What do you all think about these? I notice that there are a lot of sites that don't show the cut parameters out there. Can you tell much just by looking at the table and depth percentage?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1176607.asp

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1466934.htm#

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/5550/
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1176607.asp

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1466934.htm#

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/5550/

You need more than that, such as the crown and pavilion angles and preferably images.

The first diamond looks good but check very carefully that it is eyeclean to your standards and that the cloud isn't causing a loss of brilliance ( the cloud on the plotting diagram). Ask for an Idealscope if possible for the diamond.

The second looks nice, check it is eyeclean to your standards also.

The third looks good too,
 
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