Thoughts on this diamond? And, should I be worried about EGL?

[egrabled]

I''m considering buying a ring from a friend. It is EGL certified with the following details:

"
Weight: 0.80 Cts.
Shape/Cut: Round Brilliant
Table Depth: 63.5%
Table Width: 58%
Crown Height: 15%
Pavilion Depth: 45%
Girdle Thickness: Medium, Faceted
Color: D
Clarity: SI1
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Culet: None
Fluorescence: V. Slight Blue

Comments:
-DiaScript on the girdle by D.L.A.
-"PREMIUM CUT" - The proportions of this diamond are within the tolerance of those of the Premium Cut, thus achieving a harmonious balance between proportions & the display of brilliance.
"

My questions:

-Should I not be worried as to how accurate this certification is if I''m buying it used?
-Can/should I look into getting it certified by GIA? Or will an appraisal from a local jeweler be enough?
-How does "Premium Cut" compare to an "Ideal Cut"?
-Any other thoughts on this diamond?

Thanks!

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

If you want a stone that performs well, you should not consider buying this one. Period.

Live long,

 

[neatfreak]

It is in no way a premium cut. I would pass.

 

[egrabled]

Date: 1/4/2009 12:26:06 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
If you want a stone that performs well, you should not consider buying this one. Period.


Live long,

Could you elaborate, please? I''m still a newbie to this stuff.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Well, if I am punching in the numbers right that you listed (are the numbers for crown and pavilion % or angles? I entered them as %) then the diamond scores the following on the HCA: 4.9: Good -- Only if price is your main criterion.

What this means is that this diamond is not well cut, and so I personally would pass on this diamond unless you don''t care about cut quality... but then why come to Pricescope?

May I ask what your friend is charging for this diamond? We can tell you if you can do better elsewhere. Also, know that re-sale should only be about 30% of the value for the stone on the retail market.

Regarding your other questions:

Should I not be worried as to how accurate this certification is if I''m buying it used?
-Can/should I look into getting it certified by GIA? Or will an appraisal from a local jeweler be enough?

When buying a diamond from a non-trusted source (i.e., a vendor without a very clear and long positive reputation), or if you are spending a lot of $$, it is always advisable to get the diamond appriased by a trusted independent appraiser (i.e., someone who does NOT sell diamonds). If you choose a good appraiser, and there are many recommended by PS, then you can trust their report and there is no need to get the diamond certed by GIA or AGS. The appraiser will give you all the same information that GIA would give and will often also assess the diamond using other tools, like ASET and idealscope. But don''t take it to a local jew

-How does "Premium Cut" compare to an "Ideal Cut"?

These labels are meaningless in most cases and are just used to sell diamonds. Exceptions: "Ideal" as it is used around here refers ONLY to AGS0 graded diamonds by AGS. "Excellent" is the highest rating by GIA. Other labels don''t tell you much. Instead, you can assess the quality of the cut yourself using the angles/proportions that were given on the report you have, in addition to magnified pictures of the diamond and images from an Ideal Scope etc. I used the Holloway Cut advisor (http://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp), above, as a preliminary assessment of the diamonds cut quality, and since it scores greater than 2, we can reject the diamond from further consideration, IMO.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/4/2009 12:27:47 PM
Author: egrabled

Date: 1/4/2009 12:26:06 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
If you want a stone that performs well, you should not consider buying this one. Period.


Live long,

Could you elaborate, please? I''m still a newbie to this stuff.

See my poste, above, for some elaboration. But basically the cut of this stone will not maximize light return and so it will not look very good. It will not be a bright and sparkly as a well cut diamond.

 

[egrabled]

Date: 1/4/2009 12:36:36 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
What this means is that this diamond is not well cut, and so I personally would pass on this diamond unless you don''t care about cut quality... but then why come to Pricescope?

May I ask what your friend is charging for this diamond? We can tell you if you can do better elsewhere. Also, know that re-sale should only be about 30% of the value for the stone on the retail market.

I''m looking at $2k for the whole ring. I would post more details on the ring, but my SO may be lurking on the boards. Does Pricescope allow for sending private messages?

 

[egrabled]

I double checked and the crown and pavilion are listed as percentages in the EGL cert.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/4/2009 12:46:38 PM
Author: egrabled
I double checked and the crown and pavilion are listed as percentages in the EGL cert.

This is normal for EGL. But still, this stone will not return light correctly and just won't be nearly as sparkly as it should be. For $3k you can get almost the same thing, not secondhand most likely too...so there is NO WAY I would pay that much for a stone secondhand.

Your friend probably got ripped off and thus is passing off the "ripping off" to you without knowing it.

 

[egrabled]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:10:35 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 1/4/2009 12:46:38 PM

Author: egrabled

I double checked and the crown and pavilion are listed as percentages in the EGL cert.

This is normal for EGL. But still, this stone will not return light correctly and just won''t be nearly as sparkly as it should be. For $3k you can get almost the same thing, not secondhand most likely too...so there is NO WAY I would pay that much for a stone secondhand.


Your friend probably got ripped off and thus is passing off the ''ripping off'' to you without knowing it.

I offered $2k as I figured it''d still be a good deal on his part. The ring setting is pretty fancy in itself. I don''t want to post it here though. Are there no PMs on this site?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:14:07 PM
Author: egrabled

Date: 1/4/2009 1:10:35 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 1/4/2009 12:46:38 PM

Author: egrabled

I double checked and the crown and pavilion are listed as percentages in the EGL cert.

This is normal for EGL. But still, this stone will not return light correctly and just won't be nearly as sparkly as it should be. For $3k you can get almost the same thing, not secondhand most likely too...so there is NO WAY I would pay that much for a stone secondhand.


Your friend probably got ripped off and thus is passing off the 'ripping off' to you without knowing it.

I offered $2k as I figured it'd still be a good deal on his part. The ring setting is pretty fancy in itself. I don't want to post it here though. Are there no PMs on this site?

PM's aren't available here. I agree with everyone else, this diamond isn't well cut - you can do much better.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/4/2009 12:44:52 PM
Author: egrabled

Date: 1/4/2009 12:36:36 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
What this means is that this diamond is not well cut, and so I personally would pass on this diamond unless you don''t care about cut quality... but then why come to Pricescope?

May I ask what your friend is charging for this diamond? We can tell you if you can do better elsewhere. Also, know that re-sale should only be about 30% of the value for the stone on the retail market.

I''m looking at $2k for the whole ring. I would post more details on the ring, but my SO may be lurking on the boards. Does Pricescope allow for sending private messages?

Afraid not.

In terms of price, it''s not a great deal, given you can find stones of the same spec for about the same price from a dealer, and I assume the setting is a fairly simple solitaire, worth new $200-500.

Others have already commented on cut quality - I think you can do a lot better, but if your budget is $2k you''ll need to sacrifice something on colour and/or size to get an absolutely top quality cut diamond. I would take this ring to a good jeweller and compare it to something that you know is a well-cut diamond, such as an AGS-0, and see if you can spot the difference and if you like the other one more...

 

[Dreamer_D]

Not a good deal at all for a poorly cut diamond that is second hand! If you tell us your total budget we can find you something better.

 

[egrabled]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:19:23 PM
Author: oldmancoyote
In terms of price, it''s not a great deal, given you can find stones of the same spec for about the same price from a dealer, and I assume the setting is a fairly simple solitaire, worth new $200-500.

Others have already commented on cut quality - I think you can do a lot better, but if your budget is $2k you''ll need to sacrifice something on colour and/or size to get an absolutely top quality cut diamond. I would take this ring to a good jeweller and compare it to something that you know is a well-cut diamond, such as an AGS-0, and see if you can spot the difference and if you like the other one more...

The setting is of a single diamond and has 0.5 TCW of channel-set diamonds. My budget is quite a bit higher than $2k, I was just hoping I could snag it and get a deal. Seems like it might be worth the few $k more for something new, though.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:35:20 PM
Author: egrabled

Date: 1/4/2009 1:19:23 PM

Author: oldmancoyote

In terms of price, it''s not a great deal, given you can find stones of the same spec for about the same price from a dealer, and I assume the setting is a fairly simple solitaire, worth new $200-500.


Others have already commented on cut quality - I think you can do a lot better, but if your budget is $2k you''ll need to sacrifice something on colour and/or size to get an absolutely top quality cut diamond. I would take this ring to a good jeweller and compare it to something that you know is a well-cut diamond, such as an AGS-0, and see if you can spot the difference and if you like the other one more...

The setting is of a single diamond and has 0.5 TCW of channel-set diamonds. My budget is quite a bit higher than $2k, I was just hoping I could snag it and get a deal. Seems like it might be worth the few $k more for something new, though.

Or at least something different...

 

[egrabled]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:34:32 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
Not a good deal at all for a poorly cut diamond that is second hand! If you tell us your total budget we can find you something better.

I do have other rings in mind (well, my SO does ) but I''d found this one and was considering it if it''d mean I could spend less than half of what I was planning to. This ring is of the exact type my SO wants. Seems like it''s not so much of a good buy, though.

Would it be worth it at $1-$1.5k?

Thanks, all.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:19:23 PM
Author: oldmancoyote
... I would take this ring to a good jeweller and compare it to something that you know is a well-cut diamond, such as an AGS-0, and see if you can spot the difference and if you like the other one more...

This is a good suggestion, just be sure to look at the two under lots of lighting conditions, both will look the most similar in the jewelers lighting, which is designed to optimize the look of diamonds and make poor cuts look their best. Look at the stones in low lighting (by covering them with your hand) and in natural light btoh direct and diffuse. Under that wider range you WILL see a difference. I have compared my ideal cut to my friend's cuts which are probably similar to the diamond you are considering and the difference is really striking. A well cut diamond positvely *glows* in almost any lighting condition, even low lighting, and it is worth the time it takes to locate a nice one. I'd rather have a .60ct ideal than a .80ct poorly cut diamond any day, especially if it is for an engagement ring.

ALSO: if your SO is lurking on Pricescope, she will probably want a top cut diamond, don't you think?

 

[egrabled]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:37:57 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 1/4/2009 1:19:23 PM

Author: oldmancoyote

... I would take this ring to a good jeweller and compare it to something that you know is a well-cut diamond, such as an AGS-0, and see if you can spot the difference and if you like the other one more...

This is a good suggestion, just be sure to look at the two under lots of lighting conditions, both will look the most similar in the jewelers lighting, which is designed to optimize the look of diamonds and make poor cuts look their best. Look at the stones in low lighting (by covering them with your hand) and in natural light btoh direct and diffuse. Under that wider range you WILL see a difference. I have compared my ideal cut to my friend''s cuts which are probably similar to the diamond you are considering and the difference is really striking. A well cut diamond positvely *glows* in almost any lighting condition, even low lighting, and it is worth the time it takes to locate a nice one. I''d rather have a .60ct ideal than a .80ct poorly cut diamond any day, especially if it is for an engagement ring.


ALSO: if your SO is lurking on Pricescope, she will probably want a top cut diamond, don''t you think?

Touche.

So, regarding cut, BlueNile lists a Blue Nile Signature Ideal cut. BrilliantEarth lists a "Super Ideal". Are these cuts worth it over Ideal?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:37:48 PM
Author: egrabled


Would it be worth it at $1-$1.5k?

Thanks, all.

You need to go out and see how much a "fair to good" cut diamond is on the retail market and then divide by three to get the fair price for this ring, add about $500 for a secondhand setting. BUT only yo ucan determine "worth it". As I said in my post above, I would not be happy if I got a poor diamond as an engagement ring because my SO wanted to save some money. I'd rather have a smaller better cut and a lower color.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:40:49 PM
Author: egrabled
So, regarding cut, BlueNile lists a Blue Nile Signature Ideal cut. BrilliantEarth lists a ''Super Ideal''. Are these cuts worth it over Ideal?

Read what I wrote above about labels and how to assess cut quality. Labels mean nothing, these are just labels those companies give to a class of diamonds they carry. Some will be great within those categories and others less great!

If you want a top diamond, I suggest you stick with GIA Excellent cut grades and AGS0 Ideal cut grades, and then once you have those types selected you can assess the cut using the methods I described above.

For example, here is a lovely diamond that is within your stated budget allowing for a nice channel set band, and it is a real beauty! About the same size at the one you originally proposed, but a lower color (though the EGL was probably more like an F or G by AGS standards, so really this is very close to that diamond). I personally think G-H color is a sweet spot for price since it is much less $$ than D-F colors but will look totally white. You''d need to check if this diamond is "eye clean", meaning the inclusions are not visible to the eye: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5127/

Another: http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1848255.htm

And a setting to boot: http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Diamond-Settings/-Flush-Fit--Diamond-Engagement-Ring_1063.htm

Both of these vendors have stellar reputations on PS, and if you are in Canada (which I suspect from the BrilliantEarth and BN references) you pay no duty to import, only PST/GST. Even with the exchange rate these prices are better than you will see in Canada.

 

[egrabled]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:51:37 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
Both of these vendors have stellar reputations on PS, and if you are in Canada (which I suspect from the BrilliantEarth and BN references) you pay no duty to import, only PST/GST. Even with the exchange rate these prices are better than you will see in Canada.

I'm actually in the US, but was looking at BE because I'd like to get something conflict-free.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/4/2009 1:54:51 PM
Author: egrabled

I''m actually in the US, but was looking at BE because I''d like to get something conflict-free.

There was an interesting discussion about conflict free on here recently. Try searching for "Kimberly Accord" and your will find lots of information about it. WF has some information about the conflict level for their diamonds on their site.

 

[egrabled]

Aha, I''d looked and missed WF''s comments on it the first time around. Good to know.

 

[JulieN]

Say, you get an independent appraisal (specifically, about recutting possibilities.) Get it for less than 2k, and have it recut.

 

[kcoursolle]

This diamond is not well-cut so I would pass. A well cut stone will outperform and outsparkle a larger poorer cut diamond. I think you should work with your budget and find something else. You could look into recutting, but with the cost of a recut you probably wouldn''t save much money anyways.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Hum - recut on a 0.80?

 

[SandraPaneczko]

Pass! You are here so that means you want a good quality stone. GIA or AGS only. chances are that color is probably really a F or G and the clarity could be SI3. In my opinion vendors who use IGI and EGL are trying to sell you crap but they want you to think your getting something good. skip vendors all together who use these grading reports. Shady!!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/4/2009 5:39:10 PM
Author: SandraPaneczko
Pass! You are here so that means you want a good quality stone. GIA or AGS only. chances are that color is probably really a F or G and the clarity could be SI3. In my opinion vendors who use IGI and EGL are trying to sell you crap but they want you to think your getting something good. skip vendors all together who use these grading reports. Shady!!

This isn''t quite accurate here. These reports are certainly less reliable, but vendors who sell EGL stones aren''t shady per se, you just need to be willing to do some more searching and due diligence before you purchase an EGL stone due to the potential grading discrepancies. But there are some good deals to be had here if you know where to look and some EGL stones are very well cut.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/4/2009 5:39:10 PM
Author: SandraPaneczko
Pass! You are here so that means you want a good quality stone. GIA or AGS only. chances are that color is probably really a F or G and the clarity could be SI3. In my opinion vendors who use IGI and EGL are trying to sell you crap but they want you to think your getting something good. skip vendors all together who use these grading reports. Shady!!

Whoa! This is a friend''s ring. And the OP is offering to buy it. Not his friend''s fault if it came with an EGL report (well, perhaps a little, but he certainly did not choose the lab).

Plus, neatfreak is 110% right. There is a market for EGL stones.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/4/2009 6:35:33 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 1/4/2009 5:39:10 PM
Author: SandraPaneczko
Pass! You are here so that means you want a good quality stone. GIA or AGS only. chances are that color is probably really a F or G and the clarity could be SI3. In my opinion vendors who use IGI and EGL are trying to sell you crap but they want you to think your getting something good. skip vendors all together who use these grading reports. Shady!!

This isn''t quite accurate here. These reports are certainly less reliable, but vendors who sell EGL stones aren''t shady per se, you just need to be willing to do some more searching and due diligence before you purchase an EGL stone due to the potential grading discrepancies. But there are some good deals to be had here if you know where to look and some EGL stones are very well cut.

Ditto, I own one in fact as do some other PSers.