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thoughts on these two IGI stones on jamesallen.com

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killer_deep

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Here are two diamonds that look quite nice on JamesAllen.com, but for the fact that they''re graded by IGI and lack pavilion and crown angle information.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1215098.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1215116.asp

Normally my first step would be to throw in the diamond''s technical information into the HCA to make sure these are decent candidate stones. What do you guys think about these stones, and should I ask for any additional information?

The second one in particular looks nice to me.

Thoughts?

Thanks as always,
S
 

JulieN

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IGI is fine. Ask for Ideal Scope pictures.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Well, IGI is fine if you consider the color and clarity may be off a grade or two. Just don''t think you''re getting a bargain compared to a similarly graded GIA stone.
 

DiamondsDiamonds

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I like the second one better also.

And I agree with diamondseeker -- IGI grades too softly. GIA provides much more reliable grading.
 

Lorelei

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This page explains how the grading labs rank -

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/grading.asp

IGI don't provide the essential crown and pavilion angles so we can properly judge the cut, so the only way to get more info is with an Idealscope image as Julie mentions - and preferably ask James Allen if they can run a Sarin and get the angles.

Lastly, if you decide to go for an IGI graded diamond, get it independantly appraised during the return period.

Appraiser tool - https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx
 

killer_deep

Rough_Rock
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Thanks everyone for your very useful replies. I was originally hunting for a J/SI1 eye-clean stone, so if the IGI grades are inflated a bit, I''ll be back at my target level. Even compared to equivalent J-SI2 GIA graded stones, these two are well-priced and have great dimensions.

I think that James Allen is working on idealscope and crown/pavilion angles for me right now. I''ll also be making sure that the stone I pick is eyeclean. At any rate, I''ll probably soon be soliciting more of your excellent advice!

Thanks for the help again
S
 

Lorelei

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Date: 2/10/2009 12:26:51 PM
Author: killer_deep
Thanks everyone for your very useful replies. I was originally hunting for a J/SI1 eye-clean stone, so if the IGI grades are inflated a bit, I''ll be back at my target level. Even compared to equivalent J-SI2 GIA graded stones, these two are well-priced and have great dimensions.

I think that James Allen is working on idealscope and crown/pavilion angles for me right now. I''ll also be making sure that the stone I pick is eyeclean. At any rate, I''ll probably soon be soliciting more of your excellent advice!

Thanks for the help again
S
Most welcome and keep us posted!
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
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They both look nicely cut, but the first looks like it may not be eye-clean (hard to tell from pictures, but I don''t like those inclusions near 10-11 o''clock on the picture). The second looks very promising. Just be aware that IGI may be not just 1 but maybe 2 grades off when it comes to color and clarity, so your I/SI1 may actually be a GIA-equivalent K/I1. If you''re fine with that, go ahead! Of course get the IS, check if the diamonds are eye-clean to your standards, and get it independently appraised during the return period.
 

Regular Guy

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Once upon a time JA also carried EGL options. Then they went to GIA & AGS only...and even now, on their FAQ page, I only see these referenced...but...yes, I do now see IGI options. Not sure if their approach changed or what.
 

killer_deep

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Hello All,

I''ve got some more updates for you.

Regular Guy - apparently JA has some partnerships with other diamond dealers that generally carry IGI stones. They aren''t housed in New York, at their headquarters, but they make them available on their website.

Apparently the two diamonds I listed above are not available to JA in-house, and so I can''t get idealscope images. They were able to run a Sarin report on both, though. They also specifically said that both are eye-clean, although the .85 ct stone is cleaner.

I''ve also found another stone, GIA graded, J-I1, that JA has said is eye-clean. I''ll post the dimensions on that stone below as well.

I''m curious about whether (a) given the dimensions of the .85/.86ct stones, their excellent scores on the HCA (both are AGS0 candidates), and the images which suggest that they''re well cut, is it safe to buy one of these stones? (b) what do you think of the GIA graded .90ct stone?

Thanks!
S
 

killer_deep

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Diamond #1

Laboratory: IGI
Carat Weight: 0.86
Color: I
Clarity: SI1
Measurements: 6.15 - 6.17 x 3.74 mm
Depth: 60.7%
Table: 55.5%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Culet: None
Girdle: Thin to medium, faceted
Fluorescence: None
Culet: Pointed
Crown Angle : 34.2°
Crown %: 15.1
Pavillion Angle : 40.7°
Pavillion %: 42.8

HCA score: 0.8 (ex/ex/ex/vg)
> AGS0 and GIA excellent candidate

86IGI.JPG
 

killer_deep

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Diamond #2

Laboratory: IGI
Carat Weight: 0.85
Color: I
Clarity: SI1
Measurements: 6.16 - 6.19 x 3.72 mm
Depth: 60.2%
Table: 55.5%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Culet: None
Girdle: Thin to medium, faceted
Fluorescence: Faint
Culet: Pointed
Crown Angle : 34.3°
Crown %: 15.2
Pavillion Angle : 40.7°
Pavillion %: 42.7

HCA score: 0.8 (ex/ex/ex/ex) - don''t see that too often!
> AGS0 and GIA excellent candidate

85IGI.JPG
 

AprilBaby

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Visually I like #2.
 

killer_deep

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Diamond #3

Laboratory: GIA
Carat Weight: 0.90
Color: J
Clarity: I1 (eye-clean)
Measurements: 6.16 - 6.19 x 3.84 mm
Depth: 62.2%
Table: 55%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Culet: None
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Fluorescence: None
Culet: Pointed
Crown Angle : 35.5°
Crown %: 16.0
Pavillion Angle : 40.4°
Pavillion %: 42.5

HCA score: 0.8 (ex/ex/ex/vg)
> clearly an AGS0 candidate, but only GIA very good
> the GIA cut on the certification says only "very good"... why?
> an idealscope image is coming up in the next 24 hours

90GIA.JPG
 

AprilBaby

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I still visually prefer #2.
 

Lorelei

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Date: 2/11/2009 3:57:03 PM
Author: AprilBaby
I still visually prefer #2.
I would be most interested in the first 2 diamonds, the third I would definitely want an Idealscope image. The third gets the VG cut grade probably because of the 40.4 pavilion angle. As it is an I1 clarity, make sure it is eyeclean to your standards should you decide to go for that one.
 

killer_deep

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April Baby - on close inspection the .86 stone might be more symmetrically cut. The 8 arrows on the .86 appear to align better at 3:00 and 8:00 compared to the same points on the .85. Do you think this would matter at all? Do you prefer #2 because of its higher cleanliness?

Part of the reason I''m so excited about these stones is because they''re priced great for their size and specs, and they may be very close to Hearts & Arrows candidates without the price premium. The greater symmetry of the .86 stone (or so it appears to me) may help in that regard.

Thoughts from others?

Would you feel comfortable purchasing one of these stones without an idealscope image, given that they (1) look very well cut, (2) the HCA scores are exceptional, and (3) they''re both AGS0/GIA excellent candidates.

S
 

killer_deep

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Here's a picture of the two stones at a less zoomed in level, where the inclusions are less obvious.

Which one looks better cut to you folks, #1 or #2?

To my eyes, #2 looks more symmetrical and better cut, but what do I know...

S

8685comparison.JPG
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
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It looks like the pictures are switched in that photo...#1 is on the bottom (see the inclusions I was mentioning?) and #2 on the top. Is that right?
 

JulieN

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Really close. Probably doesn''t matter, they both look great.
 

Lorelei

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Date: 2/11/2009 5:48:18 PM
Author: JulieN
Really close. Probably doesn''t matter, they both look great.
Ditto
 

killer_deep

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Alrighty folks, the deed is done. I placed an order for the .85ct stone, set in a 2mm 6-prong platinum comfort fit solitaire ring.

Because of some strange restrictions, I have to pay for the ring + diamond, diamond gets shipped in to NY from an OH partner location, and then I can get an idealscope of it. If the idealscope checks out, then they''ll set the ring. If not, I can put the money toward a different stone, or get a refund. Strange, eh?

At any rate, I''ll post a picture of the idealscope image when it shows up, and then solicit some final advice before 100% committing to a purchase.

Apparently according to some of the folks at JA, the stone would have been classified as an H&A AGS0 if it was sent to AGS instead of IGI. Ah well... discount for me!

Thanks again for all of the advice
S
 

YoungPapa

Shiny_Rock
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killer_deep,

Congratulations on your purchase. We''ll work to get you that idealscope asap, as well as check the color against GIA diamonds to see how this diamond compares.

Just to clarify, however, I think what Josh tried to say is that this diamond has the proportions that we would see in an AGS diamond, and the diamond has the *potential* to be H&A. We wouldn''t be able to confirm either of those facts without further analysis of the diamond in question.

All the best,
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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23,295
The IS image will look fine, I am curious about how the grading will turn out.
 

killer_deep

Rough_Rock
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Jan 11, 2009
Messages
31
Jim - thanks for the clarification. That was what I had gotten out of my conversation from Josh as well; I just should''ve been more careful in re-wording. Either way, I''m quite happy with the purchase.

strmrdr - Based on the magnified pictures, I think that the clarity will likely be accurate at SI1. If its not, I''m not particularly concerned, given that I''ve received a couple of assurances now of eye-cleanliness. The color is more of an issue, but the reality is that I''d be happy with a stone that was J. I''m hoping it doesn''t score much lower than that... I think that given the quality of the cut, a lower color grade won''t be too big a deal. I bought it assuming it was effectively a J. If it scores an I though, I wouldn''t complain!

Thanks all
S
 

strmrdr

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sounds kewl let us know what you find out.
 

killer_deep

Rough_Rock
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Hello All,

Attached is the idealscope image for the .85ct diamond. What do you all think? Should I pull the trigger on the purchase?

According to Josh @ James Allen, the stone faces up white, and could have been graded a "true" GIA/AGS J according to their gemologist.

Thanks in advance
S

1215116 - IS.JPG
 
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