Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very Good

[Txdiamond]

I just received a quote for an egl certified ("Hearts and Arrows") diamond for 10600, the specs are shown in the subject line. My question is whether or not I should buy it at that price. When I looked at it through the ideal scope, I saw the hearts were in line with what other diamond patterns looked like in the "excellent" versions only, but the arrows were a bit off (similar to very good) Is this a deal breaker? Is this even a good deal in the first place?

 

[heididdl]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

EGL is a much looser grading than GIA or AGS...So I would take their grading of H VS2 lightly and very good ........so I would price it similar to a GIA I-J and SI1 and SI2.....approximately $8,000 so yes its way to much... Stick to AGS 0 or GIA

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

You didn't look at an idealscope. You looked at a hearts and arrows viewer. Which only shows cut precision of the pattern. Has nothing to do with performance. And patterning, while pretty is the half that you DON'T need. What you DO need is performance. So... wrong focus there.

Hearts and arrows is not a guarantee of performance. It is just patterning. You can have perfect patterning and crappy performance.

They are mutually exclusive.

So you actually have no idea how the diamond performs. And EGL's "ideal" rating is meaningless in terms of dependability or accuracy.

So you have a badly graded diamond. With color and clarity you cannot depend on, because it's EGL and they are a very sub-par lab:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]

People are suing over how bad EGL is as a matter of fact: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/[/URL]

And you have no idea how it performs. Because what you looked at was not an idealscope.

And you have not posted the diamond's table, depth, and crown and pavillion angle. Did you run them through the HCA?

So basically all you know is what the carat weight is. And that it has pretty patterning.

Is that enough to buy it at ANY PRICE? No.

Would you go buy a car if all you knew about it was that it was a midsize sedan? No idea of color (could be blue, could be red), it's performance (4 cylinders or 6 cylinders) or really anything else about it.

So. Basically no. You do not spend 10k on ANYTHING with the feeble amount of information you have.

 

[heididdl]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/[/URL]

this was posted today about EGL

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL] On patterning verus light return.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

I just received a quote for an egl certified ("Hearts and Arrows") diamond for 10600, the specs are shown in the subject line. My question is whether or not I should buy it at that price. When I looked at it through the ideal scope, I saw the hearts were in line with what other diamond patterns looked like in the "excellent" versions only, but the arrows were a bit off (similar to very good) Is this a deal breaker? Is this even a good deal in the first place?

So there is nothing wrong with buying an EGL graded diamond if the diamond meets your standards.
What people are saying though is that unless you know what you are doing it probably is not really a 'good deal'.
To be a good deal you might need to know the real comparison of other diamonds that have the same or similar factors - and if you are a first time buyer - you have little chance to do that, or know what you don't know.

 

[Txdiamond]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

These are the specs

1.67ct Round Brilliant Cut Diamond
H color
VS2 clarity
7.76-7.73x4.56mm
Very Good Polish
Very Good Symmetry
Very Good Cut
Hearts and Arrows
No Fluorescence
Thin-Medium Girdle
58.9% Table
62% Depth

Please let me know your thoughts

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

These are the specs

1.67ct Round Brilliant Cut Diamond
H color
VS2 clarity
7.76-7.73x4.56mm
Very Good Polish
Very Good Symmetry
Very Good Cut
Hearts and Arrows
No Fluorescence
Thin-Medium Girdle
58.9% Table
62% Depth

Please let me know your thoughts

You just gave us a description that is like "I saw a great looking girl walk past on the other side of the road two weeks ago and I wish I had my contacts in"
We know nothing other than if it looks nice the girdle is too thick, or it doesn't look nice.
We do know the colour is I to H if its EGL USA and K-J if its EGL HK.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

Thoughts are- please read what people are telling you.
If you want an accurately graded diamond you need to shop for stones with GIA, or AGSL reports.
The person offering you a 1.67ct diamond for $10600 is perfectly aware of the fact that the stone will never grade near that if GIA graded it. It might be an L color.
Either they know this, and are not telling you , or they're not too familiar with the diamond business.
In either case it's not good for you, the buyer.

 

[Txdiamond]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

To be honest, I am new to this. First time buyer. It looked nice and much whiter n comparison to other "h" diamonds. @1.67 carats- it seemed perfect in terms of size. When i went outside it sparkled a lot, but it didn't sparkle the same way an ideal j did. What's another way to test this?

 

[Txdiamond]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

If it helps any, there were no visible inclusions that I noticed. I have looked at diamonds a lot, and this was one of the few times I couldnt see anything, although it was a vs2.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

To be honest, I am new to this. First time buyer. It looked nice and much whiter n comparison to other "h" diamonds. @1.67 carats- it seemed perfect in terms of size. When i went outside it sparkled a lot, but it didn't sparkle the same way an ideal j did. What's another way to test this?

Do a search here for say 1.6 to 1.7 H VS2 and you will see EGL stones from $6k and GIA stones starting from about $12k.
you can use tools here like my HCA for free (under tools top bar), or you can even buy some tools from nasty pushers like me. Because most of those stones will not be nice either - there is about 200 listed from several vendors.
But nothing wrong with you buying in a B&M store - there can be many benefits. But you are lining up to get a second rate stone and not a good deal.
BTW if you click on HCA on the search page header you will get my opinion on what to reject.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

To be honest, I am new to this. First time buyer. It looked nice and much whiter n comparison to other "h" diamonds. @1.67 carats- it seemed perfect in terms of size. When i went outside it sparkled a lot, but it didn't sparkle the same way an ideal j did. What's another way to test this?

Tx- you're in a great position at this point. You've got your money, and someone has a diamond you are considering.
Garry's tools are a great methodology. At the very least, get a copy of the EGL report - maybe it's got more details so you can run it though the HCA.
In your case, I have a slightly different type of advice- which I'm sure many, including Garry will agree with.
Check out the seller.
Any seller that you may decide to use.
Having an EGL report does not make a diamond a bad diamond.
Trying to convince someone they can purchase a well cut H/VS2 for $10600 is simply a bad indication of a seller's integrity.
For me, that's your biggest consideration in a deal of this size.

Ask the seller about GIA, and AGSL- and why they are recommending a diamond graded by EGL.
Any kind of answer criticizing GIA is BS. Not that GIA is above criticism- but it does not affect this discussion
If he tells you that the reason for the low price is the extremely "generous" grade compared to an accurately graded diamond, and you're comfortable with the policies of the store, then follow your gut.

 

[MonkeysInk]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

I'm assuming you are from Texas, based on your user name? If you're near Houston, go to Whiteflash and BGD. They're among the long-time favorites around here and it would let you some top performing stones in person.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

You just don't know enough to buy ANY diamond yet. Did you read everything I posted for you? I put everything you need to get you started above. Please read the links attached?

Would you feel comfortable buying a car if all you knew about them is that they had 4 wheels and something made them go?

Cause that's where you are. I'm trying to get you more educated, but you have to read what I've posted and linked you to. That's your half of the job.

AFTER THAT:

Here's what we need.

Which EGL lab graded it. Unless it is one of the US labs, you can just walk away now. Cause the answer to your question is "no it is not a good deal"
What is the Table %
What is the Depth %
What is the Crown Angle
What is the Pavilion Angle.


Okay? BUT FIRST READ THE LINKS AND INFORMATION I POSTED FOR YOU.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

I'm assuming you are from Texas, based on your user name? If you're near Houston, go to Whiteflash and BGD. They're among the long-time favorites around here and it would let you some top performing stones in person.

BGD is Brian Gavin Diamonds. And I too highly recommend you go there.

 

[arkieb1]

Re: Thoughts on Pricing: EGL diamond: 1.67, H, VS2, Very G

EGL USA is usually one to two grades incorrect by comparison to more strict labs like GIA in colour and one to two in clarity. EGL International stones are graded in places like Israel, Asia, India and so on and they have far far lower grading standards than GIA does, this means that you can buy a H coloured stone and when you get it appraised or send it to GIA it can come back 4 to 5 (even 6, 7 or more) colours lower than what the certificate tells you, 2 to 3 (or more if you are unlucky) clarities lower than what the certificate tells you and a much worse cut than the certificate tells you.

That is why so many people here recommend GIA or AGS because you know exactly what you are getting. Most stones that are EGL graded are not vast bargains, people think they are bargains but if you compare apples to apples if your EGL H turns VS2 turns out to be really a L/M coloured diamond with an SI2 clarity then you probably could have just purchased a GIA graded L SI1 or SI2 for the same price.