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Thoughts on a diamond - EGL USA Cert US913551316D GP

danielhazelrigg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
3
Hi All - Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts on the diamond I am looking at. Your help is greatly appreciated as I have never made an engagement ring purchase before. What I am wondering is if this is a good price and good ring. I have seen the diamond at my local reputable jeweler along with the paperwork.
It is again an EGL-USA Cert Ring (this part has me a little confused because it isn't GIA which I would always like better!)

Shape - Round Brilliant
Measurements: 7.44 - 7.40 x 4.44mm
Depth is 59.8%
Carat Weight: 1.50CT
Cut Grade: EGL Very Good (it is in a EGL Heart & Arrows Cert with the Red Hearts & Arrows Diagram)
Clarity: SI2 but the jeweler says it is a really clean SI2 and I think it is very pretty with only a single eye-visible inclusion around the edge of the diamond that the jeweler said he can place along the setting prong so I wouldn't see it - it can also be seen from the bottom but I wont be looking from there. It is a single feather without any carbon or color)
Color: F without any fluorescence
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
No Cutlet

The Ring had a list price of 17999 and I can get it for 11,100. It is a significant discount but I am interested in your thoughts on the quality, cert quality being that it is not GIA but is EGL-USA (they said they wouldn't buy anything from EGL-INTL!), and overall the ring for the price. Should i be looking at a slightly smaller diamond with better clarity for the money? Possibly an GIA cert diamond? This one is very pretty!

Thanks again!
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,179
HI Daniel
When purchasing a diamond of this stature which is not GIA or AGSL graded, you're taking a pretty big risk, unless you are a trained diamond grader.
The seller should be the one explaining this to you IMO
People in the diamond business understand that EGL grades are consistently inaccurate.
Many ( most) stones graded SI2 by EGL will be graded I1 by GIA.
An F color as graded by EGL can be as far off as J
Therefore, it's impossible to say if it's a good deal.
Using inflated prices then heavily discounting them can be seen as another deceptive practice.
Best advise is to stick with GIA graded stones - and sellers that will educate you about the differences in grading and importance of a GIA report
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,472
Long ago, in the dark ages when I sold diamonds without grading reports to my in-house clients, which in fact all of them were as the Internet had not then been created, and someone wanted a grading report, I made the client a deal.

I would send the diamond to get a GIA report. If the stone came back at what I said it was, the client would pay the cost of the report. If it came back lower than what I said, then I would pay for the report and either lower the price of the diamond or refund the money paid for the diamond, buyer's choice.

Few bothered to take me up, most just wanted to know that I was willing to stand behind my diamonds. I would suggest that for the money involved that you might ask for a similar proposal. You could say something like this, "Please send the diamond in for a GIA report and if it comes back equal to or better than the EGL report it is sold and I will pay for the report. If it comes back lower, then you pay for the report and adjust the price accordingly and I will decide whether or not I will purchase the diamond."

If the vendor says no, then think long and hard. If he says yes, it is a simple matter of waiting until the report comes back. Of course, you need to be sure that the diamond is what you really want first.

Wink
 

wildcat03

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
503
I have a GIA graded H/VS2 triple excellent that was not too far off in price from the price on your stone. You really don't need to buy from EGL - there are plenty of well-priced stones with reliable GIA reports out there.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,747
danielhazelrigg|1461167689|4021694 said:
The Ring had a list price of 17999 and I can get it for 11,100.
What does the 'list price' have to do with anything? If they could have gotten that they would have, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's unknown if they ever even tried, but it doesn't really matter, it's offered up as a distraction. Pay attention to the deal at hand, not some hypothetical price that they couldn't get. Put another way, they can write anything they want on that tag, but there's no particular reason you should care.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,179
WINK!!

Interesting suggestion- we do exactly the same thing right now. When we purchase a stone without a GIA report, we sometimes offer it while it's at GIA, priced based with my grades.
A potential buyer can keep it if it comes out better than my grade, or refuse it if they don't like the report, or for any other reason.
I know you'd do exactly the same.
But truly, the issue in my eyes is that there's still plenty of sellers out there who realize they can make a greater profit by convincing a buyer that EGL is acceptable.
That's the part I find to be objectionable.
Heck, if a seller was willing to do as you say, and submit the stone at thier own risk, they'd be explaining the deal with EGL just as you or I would.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,179
denverappraiser|1461173179|4021728 said:
danielhazelrigg|1461167689|4021694 said:
The Ring had a list price of 17999 and I can get it for 11,100.
What does the 'list price' have to do with anything? If they could have gotten that they would have, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's unknown if they ever even tried, but it doesn't really matter, it's offered up as a distraction. Pay attention to the deal at hand, not some hypothetical price that they couldn't get. Put another way, they can write anything they want on that tag, but there's no particular reason you should care.
Of course good point Neil- but my point is that the practice itself tells us more about the seller, than what they are selling.
It's proof positive they are using deceptive techniques- or at least "distraction" techniques.
Either way it's a problem for shoppers.

You would not believe how many times consumers call when trying to trade in a piece believing the "list price" has some meaning. Actually I'm sure you would believe it:)
 

ChristineRose

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
926
I read an article the other day complaining that even rich people who shop at Nordstrom's will not pay "list price." Of course they won't, and it's not because the rich are getting stingier.
 

two_little_birds

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2011
Messages
1,246
Even doing a REALLY quick search using just the PS search tool will get you better results.

i.e. these two diamonds are two grades better, lower colour (but still white, and potentially whiter than the EGL stone), and GIA graded. Both have excellent HCA scores too.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-959279
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1023352

So you think you're getting a discount? Think again!
 

danielhazelrigg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
3
Thanks all for the thoughts. I simply was including all of the information I knew (including the sticker list price) so that you had all the information. I don't ever believe that they would try to sell the diamond for that - just providing the information as an uninformed buyer trying to be a bit more educated.

No need to be rude about me providing the list price...thanks to everyone else for the positive feedback.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,670
Could you list the depth, table, crown and pavilion angles? I couldn't get the report to come up.

Right now with the details given, I'm not seeing the value. We recommend that people stick with Excellent/Ideal cut and sometimes those aren't good enough. With the price you are paying you could be getting a GIA graded stone with an great cut. Clarity would be higher but the color grade will be lower (the actual color may not be lower though). You can use the hca tool (on top menu under tools) and check the cut of the stone. I'm glad it is EGL USA but I'm still not seeing the value.
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
3,083
Here's the link to the online report verification, tyty;
http://www.eglusa.com/verify-a-report-results/?st_num=913551316D
But it's not a PDF, so we can't see the plotting diagram, which is a standard element of EGL-USA cut grade reports.
Unless I made a mistake, its HCA score is 1.8

daniel, some folks here believe you'd be paying $11,000 for the 1.5 ct diamond alone. But since you've made a number of references to "the ring", I'm thinking $11,000 would be the price of a complete ring. If so, would you kindly provide details on the setting, e.g., is it platinum or gold -- if gold, is it 14K or 18K; who made the setting; is it a plain, unadorned solitaire mounting or is the center stone set in diamond halo or is it otherwise a fancier ring?
 

danielhazelrigg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
3
ring2_82.jpg

Hopefully the image I took of the inclusion diagram shows up. there is a slight feather at about 7 o'clock. This is only visible from the bottom or the side but its "prongable." From the top, it is very clean looking.

The $11,100 is for the diamond only. Table is 61%, Crown is 14.2%, Girdle is 1.21%, Pavilion is 42.6%, Cutlet is NONE.

With the Engagement and Wedding band, both platinum, 1 center round with many small diamonds on the side down halfway down on each ring I am looking at $14,400ish.

Is this helpful and what you were looking for?
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,179
Daniel -in my opinion trying to glean meaningful color/clarity info off an EGL report is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
It's likely a very pretty diamond, and probably even well cut.
But there's a big reason it does not have a GIA report.
Without inspecting it I could not say why, but based on many years experience trading, the lack of a GIA report on a stone of this size and color is a YUUUGE red flag.

Have you asked the seller about EGL and mentioned any of the criticism of it?
 
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