Thoughts on 3X...

[headlight]

Hello, PSers!
So here's another "conversation" I'd love to have with you... regarding GIA 3X.
I think it has been well-documented here the issues with regard to 3X parameters/allowances.
I purchased a 3X thinking that it must be a well-made diamond... "AFTER ALL", GIA is known globally for it's consistent, solid, and well-respected grading of color and clarity. So, it would seem to follow suit that if this highly respected, standard-setting independent gemological laboratory assigns a cut grade of not only Excellent, but TRIPLE Excellent, you've got yourself a fine stone there!
Am I the only one who feels misled, perhaps even "duped"? I feel it is totally irresponsible.
I think it is totally legit that over time revisions may have to be made. Of course, this opens a Pandora's box! If they tighten the parameters for a cut grade of Excellent, a lot of stones (including mine!) would go down a rung. I know that AGS made a revision resulting in previously graded 0s becoming 1s. I'm sure those people weren't happy, but it is my understanding that an AGS1 is still finer than a good majority of GIA EX (doesn't help the people who went from 0 to 1, but hopefully you get my point). Doing a revision of the cut grades and re-grading of previously graded stones could be a total disaster for GIA (and perhaps that is why one hasn't been done??). I am sure I am not the only one who would have a serious complaint if I found out that the value of my stone (be that what it is at this point) was further degraded (with that said, I think the 3X grade of my stone isn't worth the paper it is written on as clearly it is a false sense of what my stone is). Clearly I'm already pretty disillusioned over that fact that what I thought was "excellent" and considered amongst "the best" from the lab that is the most "highly respected", blah blah blah. (I say this in the context that most people know GIA, that AGS just isn't as well known by the masses clearly due to its exclusivity.)
It's funny because as I read this back to myself, I feel like I'm talking about someone who purchased a stone graded by EGL-Israel, thinking it was on-par with a GIA report! Many of you will know what I am talking about. Sadly, for me, I previously HAD one of those EGL-Israel diamonds and thought THIS TIME I was "getting it right" by making sure my stone was GIA-graded. Talk about feeling doubly-duped
Another thing is that I've read in a few places something to the effect that there is a "relationship" of sorts between GIA and the cutters that are fashioning the stones that are so often rejected here on PS. If this is true, that implies (to me, at least) that GIA is not impartial, as they so highly tout themselves to be. It is like there is a vested interest, of sorts, between this "flawed" cutting and the "granting" of a cut grade of Ex. If so, that definitely negates the term "independent" in independent laboratory.
What are your thoughts? Think of this as us going to lunch and having a conversation (except you are buying your own lunch lol!). I feel badly that I am having these thoughts about GIA, but after learning what I have here as well as other places online, I am really at a loss as to how to reconcile this in my mind.
Really interested in your perspectives, as well as getting more accurate info with regard to anything I have stated that may be incorrect.

 

[Starfacet]

I read that whole thing, so you do need to buy my lunch. Anyway, what exactly are you trying to reconcile? That your GIA stone doesn't meet standards set by, say, CBI or WF ACA? Parameters for "excellent" are broader by GIA standards than those brands to my understanding. If you love your stone, then there's nothing to reconcile. A cert at the end of the day is still just a piece of paper.

 

[whitewave]

Leon Mege went on a HCA rant recently. It’s a good read.

 

[Rose-gold-or-bust]

Did you look at the stone when you bought it? If not - you should have looked to see if you liked it. It hasn’t changed since then and the stone itself won’t change if Gia changes their ratings

 

[MMtwo]

Leon Mege went on a HCA rant recently. It’s a good read.

I would love to. Where can I find it?

 

[Starfacet]

@headlight, did you know that you can trade up your diamond for a CBI? High Performance Diamonds offers this service. You will lose some money but you do have the fact that your stone is a 2 ct E color going for you. After you get a CBI, you're "in the loop" so to speak, and can continue to trade up til you get to your desired size. Just a thought. If you love your stone so much that you wouldn't consider doing this, please disregard this post.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/bl...our-old-diamond-up-to-crafted-by-infinity.htm

 

[whitewave]

I would love to. Where can I find it?

Lol. I’m running off so maybe google Leon Mege + HCA it was a very entertaining read to say the least

 

[lovedogs]

Leon Mege went on a HCA rant recently. It’s a good read.

I try to avoid all of his rants whenever possible, since almost all of them end in me being offended and irritated that people still choose to give him money.

 

[Starfacet]

I try to avoid all of his rants whenever possible, since almost all of them end in me being offended and irritated that people still choose to give him money.

Amen.

 

[lovedogs]

@headlight, did you know that you can trade up your diamond for a CBI? High Performance Diamonds offers this service. You will lose some money but you do have the fact that your stone is a 2 ct E color going for you. After you get a CBI, you're "in the loop" so to speak, and can continue to trade up til you get to your desired size. Just a thought. If you love your stone so much that you wouldn't consider doing this, please disregard this post.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/bl...our-old-diamond-up-to-crafted-by-infinity.htm

Agree. You seem unhappy with your stone compared to "super ideal" cuts, so I would go that route.

 

[headlight]

I read that whole thing, so you do need to buy my lunch. Anyway, what exactly are you trying to reconcile? That your GIA stone doesn't meet standards set by, say, CBI or WF ACA? Parameters for "excellent" are broader by GIA standards than those brands to my understanding. If you love your stone, then there's nothing to reconcile. A cert at the end of the day is still just a piece of paper.

Thought-provoking insights... thank you! I owe you lunch!!!

 

[Starfacet]

Thought-provoking insights... thank you! I owe you lunch!!!

LOL, it's a date!!

 

[headlight]

Did you look at the stone when you bought it? If not - you should have looked to see if you liked it. It hasn’t changed since then and the stone itself won’t change if Gia changes their ratings

As is the case with many other before me (and I'm sure more to come in the future), it's the "gleaning new info" as well as LIVING with it for awhile that starts to seep in the brain.

 

[headlight]

@headlight, did you know that you can trade up your diamond for a CBI? High Performance Diamonds offers this service. You will lose some money but you do have the fact that your stone is a 2 ct E color going for you. After you get a CBI, you're "in the loop" so to speak, and can continue to trade up til you get to your desired size. Just a thought. If you love your stone so much that you wouldn't consider doing this, please disregard this post.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/bl...our-old-diamond-up-to-crafted-by-infinity.htm

That's really great info... I had no idea! Thank you so much for posting this!

 

[Starfacet]

As is the case with many other before me (and I'm sure more to come in the future), it's the "gleaning new info" as well as LIVING with it for awhile that starts to seep in the brain.

True. This is why I have bought, then sold, certain stones over the years.

 

[Starfacet]

That's really great info... I had no idea! Thank you so much for posting this!

Do you live anywhere near Idaho, by chance?

 

[headlight]

Leon Mege went on a HCA rant recently. It’s a good read.

I came across that recently... I was like "WOW"! When I used to be on here many, many years ago I recall he was quite sought after and highly praised here. Guess things change.

 

[headlight]

True. This is why I have bought, then sold, certain stones over the years.

Except at some point I need to "get it right"... thought this time I had (ugh!).

 

[headlight]

Do you live anywhere near Idaho, by chance?

No, I don't

 

[Starfacet]

Except at some point I need to "get it right"... thought this time I had (ugh!).

You will!

No, I don't

No worries! Are you coming to the GTG in Carlsbad in September? If so, there will be some CBIs there.

 

[distracts]

Somebody posted once the percentage of GIA-graded stones that get Triple Excellent... it was something huge like 40-60%, iirc.

I try to avoid all of his rants whenever possible, since almost all of them end in me being offended and irritated that people still choose to give him money.

All of his rants read like bitter internet trolls who are mad that girls don't like them, or whatever. I just can't take him seriously. Like, I can understand people being critical of the HCA and cut quality measurements - there are other people on this forum who are, and who manage to do it in a much more respectful way. That he's criticizing it isn't the problem. It's the way he does it that is really offputting.

Headlight, I think it was in 2011-2013 that the tide turned against Leon. There were a number of high-profile on these forums incidents of atrociously bad "customer service" (including in a couple of incidents, holding people's stones hostage) and semi-regular reports of women trying to get settings needing their husbands to communicate to him because he doesn't listen to women, as well as a few incidents of rings going out-of-round and losing diamonds pretty soon after purchase because they were too slim to be structurally sound. I think before PSers found alternatives who can do an equally good quality of work with better service, people put up with it, but once there was competition from VC and SK, they fled. Not at all coincidentally, that was when he stepped up his rants. It's very classic narcissist behavior.

 

[anon34985]

I can feel your pain! haha, I also have one of those XXX GIA stones... and when I was instructing my husband on what to get I told him, I VS2 XXX lol, and he did exactly that, I had no idea that there is crap XXX and then there are some of course that fall into the ideal parameters. How I wish I found pricescope before I was getting engaged, I imagine my stone would be much sparklier! However, to me, and I think many other untrained regular folks, my stone is still beautiful! Given the chance though, I would look a lot more at cut than just the "excellent" GIA score

ETA: I just read your other thread where you said your diamond scored a 1.6 on HCA... don't feel so bad, my GIA excellent scored a 6!!! After doing more research my diamond squeaked in the excellent category by about .5% on the girdle...

 

[headlight]

You will!

No worries! Are you coming to the GTG in Carlsbad in September? If so, there will be some CBIs there.

No, unfortunately, I cannot attend. It's interesting you mention it because I was thinking it was a bit ironic that there would be a PS event held at the GIA headquarters given the widely held position here about the "shortcomings" of their cut grade system.

 

[Starfacet]

No, unfortunately, I cannot attend. It's interesting you mention it because I was thinking it was a bit ironic that there would be a PS event held at the GIA headquarters given the widely held position here about the "shortcomings" of their cut grade system.

I'm not aware of any shortcomings of the GIA, although maybe I should be. I have diamonds certed by GIA, GCAL, and AGS.

 

[sledge]

Since you asked....keep in mind this is his PUBLIC business website. If you dig around, you will see other similar rants.

https://www.leonmege.com/learn/hca

 

[headlight]

I can feel your pain! haha, I also have one of those XXX GIA stones... and when I was instructing my husband on what to get I told him, I VS2 XXX lol, and he did exactly that, I had no idea that there is crap XXX and then there are some of course that fall into the ideal parameters. How I wish I found pricescope before I was getting engaged, I imagine my stone would be much sparklier! However, to me, and I think many other untrained regular folks, my stone is still beautiful! Given the chance though, I would look a lot more at cut than just the "excellent" GIA score

ETA: I just read your other thread where you said your diamond scored a 1.6 on HCA... don't feel so bad, my GIA excellent scored a 6!!! After doing more research my diamond squeaked in the excellent category by about .5% on the girdle...

Thanks for sharing, really appreciate it. The additional sad part for me is that I was here on PS many, many years ago. I had to "leave" the group because I had a really horrible diamond and it just bummed me out too much to be constantly reminded as I would read through the various threads. So (not so fast) forward and I finally am able to make a trade and get my current diamond 6 mos ago. I was so thrilled to finally have a GIA stone and that it was 3X that I came back to PS... only to find out I still hadn't quite "arrived"! Definitely much prettier diamond, so I'm making progress lol! Was just hoping this would be my forever one (celebrating 30th wedding anniversary this Fall so my "forever" is running out lol!). My previous stone, which was EGL-Israel (ugh), got like a 4-point-something, I believe, on the HCA, so I'm definitely moving in the right direction And I have an E now, so I have to keep reminding myself that it is very special to be able to have that (with that in mind, it is very special to have ANY of it, so this was a good "reality check"!).

 

[sledge]

Thanks for sharing, really appreciate it. The additional sad part for me is that I was here on PS many, many years ago. I had to "leave" the group because I had a really horrible diamond and it just bummed me out too much to be constantly reminded as I would read through the various threads. So (not so fast) forward and I finally am able to make a trade and get my current diamond 6 mos ago. I was so thrilled to finally have a GIA stone and that it was 3X that I came back to PS... only to find out I still hadn't quite "arrived"! Definitely much prettier diamond, so I'm making progress lol! Was just hoping this would be my forever one (celebrating 30th wedding anniversary this Fall so my "forever" is running out lol!). My previous stone, which was EGL-Israel (ugh), got like a 4-point-something, I believe, on the HCA, so I'm definitely moving in the right direction And I have an E now, so I have to keep reminding myself that it is very special to be able to have that (with that in mind, it is very special to have ANY of it, so this was a good "reality check"!).

Mind to post your cert? Maybe it's not as bad as you think...

 

[lovedogs]

Since you asked....keep in mind this is his PUBLIC business website. If you dig around, you will see other similar rants.

https://www.leonmege.com/learn/hca

What a sad, pathetic man-child.

 

[headlight]

I'm not aware of any shortcomings of the GIA. I have diamonds certed by GIA, GCAL, and AGS.

I am referring to the responses made here when people request input on various diamonds they are considering that are GIA 3X that are rejected by the participants commenting on the diamonds in question. I am also referring to a great amount of info on other websites that have similar viewpoints regarding the majority of 3X stones. This was all quite a shock to me.

 

[lovedogs]

Mind to post your cert? Maybe it's not as bad as you think...

She's shared in other threads.