Thoughts on 2.23 EC, VVS2, K?

[Tekate]

not that I'm an expert but I thought the same thing.

 

[chrono]

Tekate,
I don't want to make wrong presumptions, therefore I am asking for clarification. I think the eye rolls are for me? I debated internally for a long time whether posting my pictures in this thread is a wise decision. I do not want to detract from SpoiledByHim's EC that is under discussion. This thread isn't about my stone but hers, but I don't know how else to point out what she should be seeing in a well cut EC. If the EC has an ASET or video, I can give better advice but it is difficult to know if my comments are accurate based on the few pictures she posted. My apologies to those who think I am showing off by posting my EC pictures here. If I am being overly sensitive, please ignore and excuse my comments.

 

[SpoiledByHim]

Dang, Chrono, why you gotta bring rationale into this?!

Okay, so here's the deal: I know it's not going to sparkling in office lighting, no problem, no worries. In indirect light it looks great (to me) but not white-flashy like yours. It tends to reflect more of the surrounding colors when looking at it head-on (like my skin or the pink of my cell phone case or the black of the camera). Is this bad?

The darkness of the stone in that last photo is not from my head or the camera. The light source is coming in from the left. I took the photo about a foot away and a little off-center so there wouldn't be any interference from the camera. That's a pretty decent shot...maybe it's a little darker in the photo but that's about what it looked like last night in the restaurant too - along with a few flashes of color from the smaller facets. The long facets weren't going crazy in the LED lighting though. I expected more but I got nuthin'. Well, not nothing, but the long facets did NOT sparkle like a rainbow.

I appreciate all the input! Again, it's a lot of money to spend on something that's not going to do what it should be doing so perhaps I need to keep looking.

The facets are just so perfect!!

 

[SpoiledByHim]

I just found this explanation online from since1910.com: "The cut should reflect the maximum amount of light to the viewer's eye. For example, if a diamond is cut too shallow light will be lost out of the pavilion (bottom) and the diamond will lose brilliance. If the diamond is cut too deep, the light will escape through the sides and the diamond will appear dark."

I'm really confused which one applies to my stone but I'm thinking one of them must. That would explain a) the lack of brilliance in LED lighting, and b) the darkening facets, but the stone can't be cut too shallow AND too deep at the same time...so something else must be off. Does the crown factor into either of these? To me, it looks like the crown is pretty small, smaller than my RB which is 5/8 of a carat.

 

[chrono]

I just found this explanation online from since1910.com: "The cut should reflect the maximum amount of light to the viewer's eye. For example, if a diamond is cut too shallow light will be lost out of the pavilion (bottom) and the diamond will lose brilliance. If the diamond is cut too deep, the light will escape through the sides and the diamond will appear dark."

The statement is too generic to be applied to all diamonds. There is more to any diamond shape's cut than just depth or table alone, which is why many posters advise that it is impossible to shop for fancy cuts by numbers only. A shallow-ish or deep-ish stone's light reflection can be "saved" by the combination of all the angles. It is how the different facet / angles are matched up to return as much light as possible to the viewer's eyes.

I think I mentioned earlier that in indirect lighting, expect to see a colour reflection of your surroundings. In my case, I was wearing blue jeans and probably a light coloured shirt. In your case, you will see the colour of your clothes and camera. The EC should still be bright and lively.

Hmmm.....that darkness is troubling from your description. I don't know what else to add other than I agree the steps are gorgeous!

 

[SpoiledByHim]

Ah, well, I'll just have to evaluate it a little longer to see if I continue to notice these things and then decide if I can live with them or not. I think seeing a few more diamonds this weekend will help solidify an answer for me.

 

[pyramid]

This is a great post especially about cut maybe? in a fancy shape stone, the emerald cut here has beautiful looking steps. Can one of the experts (like Garry H) who doesn't sell on the forum comment here? Is the bright flash light shown on Chrono's diamond what we would aim for, or is this a type of glare flash as not seeing many colors but more white or yellow light and it is very eyecatching, is this what we ideally should want to see. Why would the other emerald not have this? Is there different sun light in the photos or bright light or were they taken at a different time of day in different hemisheres or different cameras/camera settings.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think your post was really helpful Chrono, and gives a nice outline of what a person can look for when evaluating a step cut.

But, the issue with trying to help the OP via the internet is a) verbal descriptions of visual perception is very limited, and people can be saying the same things with different words and not know it; and b) photos capture only one moment and lighting is so varied its impossible to compare two photos to one another. You know this Chrono, but I want to make sure Spoiled knows this too: don't compare your photos to Chrono's or your verbals to Chrono's and draw conclusions about what is good and bad. You have to be a little looser in how you interpret what we say and ask, and get to know your diamond and, ideally, compare it to others to really get a hang of talking about diamond optics and recognizing what is good or bad etc. Unfortunately, that is tough for a first time buyer with fancies. You may want to engage the services of a good appraiser -- like Dave Atlas or Neil Beatty -- and let THEM be the eyes about cut. Or, go see more step cuts and compare yours to them and see what you think.

FWIW everything you describe and have posted looks good to me with the exception of the darkness you talk about. BUT, that said, from what you have written it seems to me you don't necessarily know what a diamond should look like in different lighting No offense intended! So, its hard for me personally to know whether "dark" is ok or not, or whether the restaurant lighting was indeed the right type to create fire flash. Or, was the diamond dirty? Have you been handling it a lot? Or at all? I find that dirty stones can still look good in indirect light but won't fire up the way clean ones will.

 

[Tekate]

Hello Chrono.. oh I love your ring but I thought you were being helpful.. I apologize most sincerely if I was too gushy.. I would like to buy an emerald style diamond at some point to make a diamond pendant.. so I gush on everything.. again I am sorry if I brought too much 'gushy' to the conversation..

 

[pyramid]

I can see Chronos ring being fire flash, with the yellow flash in the picture but what is the white flash, is fire not always colored.
Is this white light return then or is it glare, I know it is not like the glare we see of a table but is it fire or white light return and
is this what we should be looking for in diamond performance?

I remember the old talks about painting and the broad flashes that painting and digging caused as opposed to smaller flashes from unpainted stones, this was with ideal cut rounds mind.
Is this broad flash as opposed to the other type of light return which was also considered ideal?

 

[pyramid]

Also about high crown and low crown is it low crown as original poster asked that causes anything?
What about symmetry does it affect this broad flash?

 

[pyramid]

Notice the first emerald cut has more contrast, i.e. black and white (this was discussed in the painting and digging topics).

 

[SpoiledByHim]

Wow, really excellent comments and questions!! I definitely am a first-time fancy cut buyer/owner. Most of my previous diamond experience is with RBs, and this includes selling them retail. The stone wasn't dirty, I'm a bit of a freak when it comes to this. I have several jewelers' cloths around the house and I am known to loop my diamonds to ensure I've cleaned out any crud from the nooks and crannies of my ring. But that said, I fully admit to not knowing what an emerald cut "should" look like in different lighting.

I will say that I went to view some more emerald cuts yesterday and I realized several things:

1. I didn't like working with the local broker. He was cocky and kept calling me honey and darling and kid. He also got upset when I said the stones didn't really meet my specifications (which I shared with him several times). He also then refused to work with me on a custom semi-mount when he realized he wasn't getting a fat check from a diamond sale so his loss is Union Diamond's gain. They've earned my business.

2. My diamond performed better than any of the diamonds this broker showed me (when he wasn't looking I took it out of my purse to check it in his lighting). The facets are straight, I can't see any inclusions with my 10x loop, the stone is bigger, it's GIA (he was trying to sell me on EGL - nothing wrong with EGL but I know their grading is a little looser), and my stone was less expensive than any he showed me! Which is funny because in July he told me he could beat any vendor's price hands-down yet he was showing me 2 carats and 1.6 carats for greater cost than my 2.23 (they faced up much smaller and they were lower clarity). When I told him I found a larger one with better specs for less online he said, "If you find a deal like that, you should take it. More power to you. I don't know how it's possible, but hey, good luck with it."

3. My diamond looks awesome in liquor store and Costco lighting! Haha!

4. I love her more and more each day. How I felt last week is no indicator as to how I feel today. She's amazing and I will cherish her always. Oh, and she's demanded a name change. The hubbs and I have been calling her Velma but I'm finding her personality is more Mrs. Butterworth. She's chubby, she's buttery-looking in some lighting, and sort of syrupy in others. Heehee

Okay, after that boring monologue, I'll leave you with some liquor store and Costco lighting pics.

 

[chrono]

I am curious as to what is the crown height of this diamond. Do you have any pictures of the sideview (profile) of your EC?

 

[Dreamer_D]

There is always a danger with diamonds -- falling in love It can make it hard to critically evaluate things.

But it seems to me that you have done your research and you have evaluated your stone and your options! That is what I hope for in people who come post on PS, that you learn something and can better evaluate your purchase.

Whether there is another diamond out there that will show more fireworks or improve some other aspect of performance is an open question. But this diamond seems to meet many of your other desires: size, shape, patterning, price. Choosing the right diamond doesn't mean picking one that is perfect in every domain. Often it means finding the one that meets the most important criteria you have... and then letting yourself fall in love. You know, kinda like dating. Seems like you found the one!

I would also be curious to see a profile shot to see crown height, just for interest and fun.

 

[chrono]

For me, the difficulty in choosing the right stone is that the eyes might not well trained enough to know what is sparkly and what is mediocre when there are so FEW well cut ECs to compare to. I speak from personal experience because ECs are my favourite shape and looking around locally has been dismally disappointing. Even online choices are extremely limited although better than at B&M stores. It sounds like you are surer than ever of keeping this one?

 

[SpoiledByHim]

Dreamer_D, I haven't met a diamond yet that I didn't love...mostly. Haha! I appreciate your description of my selection process: the diamond has met pretty much all of my desires and I've decided that I can live without certain things. In this case, it's super-sparkly fire. I'm more interested in the steps anyway, that's why I love this cut so much. I just want to get lost in them.

Chrono, after looking at what feels like hundreds of stones online, in stores, and with a broker, I've decided that this is one piece of carbon I don't want to return. As you mentioned, there are very few ECs out there that are well-cut. I don't mind giving up a little bit of fire if it means all my other criterion are met. Did I want perfect? Of course. Did I get textbook perfect? Probably not. But I've concluded that this stone is "perfect" for me so I don't really feel like I'm missing out on anything. I agree that it's hard for the untrained eye to notice irregularities. However, I can't rely on the "professional" who's selling the stones to me to tell me the truth about how wonderful (or not) they are, because naturally they're all going to be wonderful choices even if they're not, so my only recourse is to make an educated decision based on what I've learned. And what I've learned is that this stone was a really great find.

Without further ado, my dear Chrono and Dreamer, I've attached some side shots of the stone for your viewing pleasure - and because I just love taking photos of this baby! Thanks so much for your insights! You had me asking myself a lot of questions and then asking others a lot of questions and then making a decision that was right for me.

A little insider tip: this stone was not on Union Diamond's website. Once I figured out the range for the specs of the diamond that I preferred, I emailed Leah and she went searching through her resources to find more options for me. This stone was one of them. It was never going to be listed on their site so I never would have seen it had I not emailed Leah. Also, it was originally above my budget (even after the PS discount) but Leah negotiated a lower price with the cutter and it came in just below budget.

 

[Acinom]

Congrats on your decision!! It's a beautiful stone. Any ideas on how you will set it?

 

[SpoiledByHim]

Acinom, not sure yet how I'll set it. I like halos but I also love the lines of this stone and I'm not sure if I should cover them up. I REALLY want to wear it though so I might just do a solitaire mount for now and then figure something out later. The hubby is getting nervous with it only being held by the squeeze ring and he does not at all find it amusing that I'm taking photos of it on my finger in stores.

 

[SpoiledByHim]

Update: I went to a local jewelry store to buy a solitaire mount. I ended up looking at their mounts for an hour and found one that I decided I couldn't live without. I've attached a few photos. I'm not happy with the prongs, they're makeshift double prongs and I really wanted real double prongs so it's going back in for a custom crown. I'll post pics when it's done. For now, here's a little taste of bling-a-liciousness to come.

 

[GemFever]

Beautiful ring! Love your photography too, with the autumnal background. Congrats on finding such a beautiful diamond and setting!

 

[Mayk]

Beautiful! I so enjoyed following this thread! Fun journey! I love your ring!

 

[leyhuong]

I am so jealous, such a beauty!!!

 

[leyhuong]

Hi SpoiedByHim,
Can you share with us the specifications of this beauty? I really want to learn these from your choice.

Update: I went to a local jewelry store to buy a solitaire mount. I ended up looking at their mounts for an hour and found one that I decided I couldn't live without. I've attached a few photos. I'm not happy with the prongs, they're makeshift double prongs and I really wanted real double prongs so it's going back in for a custom crown. I'll post pics when it's done. For now, here's a little taste of bling-a-liciousness to come.

 

[Dreamer_D]

It looks great!

Just for edumacational purposes the crown on your diamond is shallower, which fits with your own observations about the lack of fire and the emphasis on whiter light return. If you or another buyer was looking for a stone with more fire in the future, you would want to look for a higher crown and smaller table combo (among other things). I do think its important to weigh all the options and think about the pros and cons when buying a diamond. Knowing exactly what you are getting, and compromises you may be making on one dimesion to achieve your goals on another, is essential to being an informed consumer! And you did that. Good job. It looks lovely.

 

[heididdl]

Update: I went to a local jewelry store to buy a solitaire mount. I ended up looking at their mounts for an hour and found one that I decided I couldn't live without. I've attached a few photos. I'm not happy with the prongs, they're makeshift double prongs and I really wanted real double prongs so it's going back in for a custom crown. I'll post pics when it's done. For now, here's a little taste of bling-a-liciousness to come.

there are no words

 

[SpoiledByHim]

Thank you, GemFever, Mayk, Dreamer, and heididdl! I'm SO incredibly pleased with it and I'm happy to say that I covet my own ring.

I need to say thank you to everyone who helped me through my analysis and provided excellent, thoughtful and thorough input. I had suspected my stone was a tad bit flawed and it helped to talk this through with everyone so that I could make a more informed decision about keeping it. I'm grateful for the generosity on this site. I look forward to giving back.

leyhuong, thank you! The specs are listed below.

Center stone:
GIA
2.23 carats
K
VVS2
Ex Polish
Ex Symm
No Fluor
63.2% Depth
69% Table
8.31 x 7.22 x 4.56 mm

Mount:
.81 ctw
H/I color
SI1 clarity
trapezoid side stones
14k white gold, platinum head

 

[SpoiledByHim]

Update:

I returned the semi-mount. I couldn't come to terms with how much smaller the center stone looked in that setting. So I set it in a solitaire until I decide what I want to do. I absolutely love it!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Good lord. I love it---took my breath away! Enjoy it!

cheers--Sharon

 

[luvdajules]

Hi OP, just read through your entire journey for your beautiful EC and when I saw your setting, I thought the very same thing, your setting swallowed up your big stone, lol. Good decision with your current solitaire, very classy!