This is the same stone, right?

[Green with Envy]

A local dealer presented us with a picture and GRS cert of a stone.



Then I was randomly searching the internet and found this stone on the Natural Sapphire Company site. This must be the exact same stone, right??? or have I just been starring at a computer screen too long? Thoughts on this stone?

 

[eastjavaman]

I would say "yes" it is very rare for a stone that has the same size, dimension, weight, cut, color, and level of treatment. Unless they are twins. Normally for tiny stones or melee, possible, but for larger stones 5ct+ very unlikely.

Same Price??

 

[Green with Envy]

Not same price at all- not even close!

 

[eastjavaman]

There was a thread in PS, discussing about some of these dealers/vendors having the same source without owning the stones, and they are marketing it so to speak and this could be one of those cases.

 

[eastjavaman]

Found it, Gene from PrecisionGems said
//
Normally when you go to your local jeweler looking for a stone, he will have you come back in a few days. What he then does is have a number of stones sent to him on memo to show you. He only pays for the stone once you buy it, the others are sent back. Or what they have in stock, some of it may be on memo. When I lived in Buffalo, I had 3 or 4 stores that I would leave anywhere from 6 to 20 stones with on memo. These would would display or show to customers, and once sold, I would get paid.
//

 

[the_mother_thing]

I agree they look to be the same, but why would one show the gia report while the other presents the one from GRS?

 

[LoversKites]

I agree they look to be the same, but why would one show the gia report while the other presents the one from GRS?

In the picture of the sapphire which I assume the jeweler sent her (?) it says it has both GIA and GRS reports.

 

[T L]

I agree they look to be the same, but why would one show the gia report while the other presents the one from GRS?

It seems that the GRS has the origin, which might drive up the price.

 

[chrono]

The GIA report is from 2010 and the GRS report is newer at 2014. It is most likely the same stone.

 

[Green with Envy]

Well, I guess that shows me that I can't use local jeweler to source stones and better to do it on my own. He almost doubled the price Compared To NSC. I knew there would be markup, but so much???!!!

 

[chrono]

Well, I guess that shows me that I can't use local jeweler to source stones and better to do it on my own. He almost doubled the price Compared To NSC. I knew there would be markup, but so much???!!!

Entirely possible. I've also used online vendors to call in stones from Pala and depending on who you call/contact, the markup can vary as much as double the price too.

 

[T L]

Well, I guess that shows me that I can't use local jeweler to source stones and better to do it on my own. He almost doubled the price Compared To NSC. I knew there would be markup, but so much???!!!

Never good to buy from a retailer who sources his/her stones from an already expensive retailer.

I understand there's typically middlemen, but in this case, this is a perfect example of why prices on some gems are so high, and its not always a factor of quality. Someone's got to pay for both reports too in that mix, even though the GRS alone should have sufficed.

 

[chrono]

I understand there's typically middlemen, but in this case, this is a perfect example of why prices on some gems are so high, and its not always a factor of quality. Someone's got to pay for both reports too in that mix, even though the GRS alone should have sufficed.

TL,
Did you mean GIA instead of GRS? I'd rather have a GIA report over a GRS report.

 

[T L]

I understand there's typically middlemen, but in this case, this is a perfect example of why prices on some gems are so high, and its not always a factor of quality. Someone's got to pay for both reports too in that mix, even though the GRS alone should have sufficed.

TL,
Did you mean GIA instead of GRS? I'd rather have a GIA report over a GRS report.

The GRS has origin on it, which is beneficial information. The GIA does not. I find both labs to be comparable.

 

[eastjavaman]

I understand there's typically middlemen, but in this case, this is a perfect example of why prices on some gems are so high, and its not always a factor of quality. Someone's got to pay for both reports too in that mix, even though the GRS alone should have sufficed.

TL,
Did you mean GIA instead of GRS? I'd rather have a GIA report over a GRS report.

The GRS has origin on it, which is beneficial information. The GIA does not. I find both labs to be comparable.

However, as opposed to GRS, NSC in the site describes
//
A 5.62ct cushion cut sapphire with the sharper corners for a more modern cushion appeal; this vivid blue beauty from MADAGASCAR is an exceptionally rare untreated sapphire, destined from its natural creation to be worn and appreciated.
//
it immigrated and changed its nationality I suppose?

 

[Green with Envy]

I feel it is same stone- but the origin did have me confused. Maybe can't trust NSC report since they claim different than GSL.

 

[Green with Envy]

And to top it off... the local dealer wants me to pay for shipping and insurance to look at stone while charging me more than $20,000 over NCS price. I can have it shipped to me by NCS for free! I am not interested in this stone for the price... just can't believe the differences and makes me realize I like doing some homework on PS to be more educated consumer to save some $.

 

[chrono]

That is simply crazy!

 

[pregcurious]

Well, I guess that shows me that I can't use local jeweler to source stones and better to do it on my own. He almost doubled the price Compared To NSC. I knew there would be markup, but so much???!!!

Entirely possible. I've also used online vendors to call in stones from Pala and depending on who you call/contact, the markup can vary as much as double the price too.

Chrono, can you recommend vendors for Pala stones?

 

[chrono]

I don't know if Gary Dutton has retired but he always offered me a fair price. I've inquired with several other PS favourites and found their markups to be higher. I've also found his assessment of the stones called in to be more technical (rather than flowery or romanticized) which I prefer. He uses the GIA colour nomenclature to give me a fair idea of the colouration and includes the incandescent and fluorescent shifts as well.

 

[minousbijoux]

GwE, if you haven't already done so, you might want to look at the Pala website and familiarize yourself with any blue sapphires in the size and quality you seek. I don't know if there is any relationship between NSC and Pala, but it would be interesting if that stone was in fact a Pala stone that NSC had access to. In this case, it might work to your advantage if you could shop around and find someone with whom you could work offering a more palatable markup.

 

[T L]

And to top it off... the local dealer wants me to pay for shipping and insurance to look at stone while charging me more than $20,000 over NCS price. I can have it shipped to me by NCS for free! I am not interested in this stone for the price... just can't believe the differences and makes me realize I like doing some homework on PS to be more educated consumer to save some $.

Also note how both lab reports say absolutely NOTHING about the quality of color, simply that the stone is blue. For high cost stones, the AGL Prestige Report with full analysis of tone, hue, saturation, clarity, cut, should be a requirement of sale. Its ridiculous to spend that kind of money on a stone that looks inky blue on my monitor and nothing is noted about the quality of the color, which is one of the most important aspects of a colored gem.

 

[Green with Envy]

Interestingly... I found this particular local jeweler because they were listed as a dealer on the PALA website. he said he got this stone from his "best connection" and mentioned it came from some brothers- one who was currently at some show. I thought he said it is from NY and not california where Pala is located. I did not mention any of my recent NSC discoveries to the local jeweler... I am just going to politely look elsewhere.

I love the color of my other thread about the sleepy 7.9 ct and the price, with setting, is still cheaper than this loose stone my local jeweler quoted.

 

[pregcurious]

I prefer the color of this stone, and it is not sleepy. The other stone is too sleepy for me for a color that is dark.

 

[Green with Envy]

I was told this is a lively stone, but since the color of the stone appears better in the NSC picture- i don't trust it since it is darker in the actual photo my local guy sent me. The local jeweler said when he called them- they said the stone does have slight zoning. it looks nicer to me in the NCS picture and seems great for half price! but I am wary of anything from NSC because of things I have read on this board.

 

[T L]

I was told this is a lively stone, but since the color of the stone appears better in the NSC picture- i don't trust it since it is darker in the actual photo my local guy sent me. The local jeweler said when he called them- they said the stone does have slight zoning. it looks nicer to me in the NCS picture and seems great for half price! but I am wary of anything from NSC because of things I have read on this board.

The only way to truly know the quality of color from a monitor is to view an accompanying AGL full grading report. I would also want to view it in various light sources as well.

 

[T L]

BTW, here's an excellent thread on a sapphire purchase with an accompanying AGL full grading prestige report. As you can see, the report reflects the quality of the stone, as it was graded very highly and the saturation/hue/tone analysis gave you a good idea of what it would look like IRL. You want something like this if you're spending a great deal on a gem because AGL is an expert in the arena of colored gems, and if they grade something highly with qualitative analysis, then you know it is a high quality gem.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/unheated-burma-blue-sapphire-agl-prestige-report-help.203697/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/unheated-burma-blue-sapphire-agl-prestige-report-help.203697/[/URL]

 

[Green with Envy]

Yes, I saw that thread. Nice stone. I have a feeling the cost of the round stone is much higher than my budget. I don't want to spend much over 30k for a large stone.

 

[T L]

Yes, I saw that thread. Nice stone. I have a feeling the cost of the round stone is much higher than my budget. I don't want to spend much over 30k for a large stone.

I just posted it as an example, so if you do buy a pricey stone (even $5K to me is a pricey stone), then I wanted you to be aware of the AGL full grading prestige report, and how it should match up to your gem's quality/price ratio.

I don't know how much AN paid for her stone, but it's possible that her stone may have cost as much or even more than your stone since yours has so many middlemen and markups, and is sold by high priced retailers. You never know with colored stones, which is why it's good to have this report, as it gives an idea if you paid a fair price.

 

[Green with Envy]

I don't know if Gary Dutton has retired but he always offered me a fair price. I've inquired with several other PS favourites and found their markups to be higher. I've also found his assessment of the stones called in to be more technical (rather than flowery or romanticized) which I prefer. He uses the GIA colour nomenclature to give me a fair idea of the colouration and includes the incandescent and fluorescent shifts as well.

I tried to contact gary... his number is no longer valid on a website i found and never returned email.

Chrono- Do you have any 2nd, 3 rd top choices for people who can get pala (or other stones) that are not going to DOUBLE the price of the stone?

Thanks.