This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and work

[Amber St. Clare]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

never mind

 

[pregcurious]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Oh - and for fun - I interviewed at a really large company today and they have a company policy that says pregnant women get a one hour nap during the workday...they had a room with cots in it any everything.

LJL, can you tell us the name of the company and where they are located?

 

[Mara]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Random but I hated having to pump at work, it was such a pain to find the time between meetings and then go into the little cell block room where our VPN didn't work, so I couldn't even really be working during that time anyway... and then clean up my stuff and do it all again a few hours later. Props to her for doing it and for you and your coworker for trying to be sensitive about it. I really hope that this new solution works out for all!

 

[HollyS]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Unfortunately, under U.S. federal law, absolutely no restrictions can be placed upon this woman for her need (desire) to pump.

Furthermore, her employer must accomodate her need by providing not only all the time she might need, but she must have a designated private space to do this in. Not a public place, restroom, breakroom, etc.

If anyone's workplace is NOT providing such measures for the nursing mother, she can sue - - big time . . . and win big.

Another fine example of government overreach and lunacy in law making.

Well you're dead wrong about the "winning big" thing.

You may not be awarded damages under FMLA for technical violations. You must prove actual monetary harm for the violation, which, by the way, has NEVER HAPPENED under this breast feeding provision, probably because it's probably impossible to prove actual financial damages from not getting a space to pump.

In fact, instead, a TX Federal judge has determined that termination in response to demanding breastfeeding space is not discriminatory. So, not only can you no win a single dime if your employer fails to provide space to pump, you can't even sue them if they fire you for having the audacity to ask, at least in the 5th circuit.

edited for less snark.

You edited this? Really? Are you sure?


Personally, I don't plan to put my business at risk by thumbing my nose at the laws re: nursing mothers. Regardless of the one judge in TX. But many employers will think twice before hiring new moms; those laws don't leave much wiggle room for compliance.

Why wouldn't the laws regarding this - - since it has indeed been determined by the federal government to be a form of discrimination - - be upheld under EEOC? According to our insurance company, which recently provided training on this very subject and other HR issues, it would be. I tend to believe them, as their job is to keep us abreast (pun intended) of current laws and how we can best protect ourselves from lawsuits.

I've served on a federal jury (as the foreman) for a discrimination case under EEOC. I prefer not to assume it can never happen to my company.

 

[missy]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I think it is important to allow nursing moms to pump at work and to allow for a sufficient amount of time. However, it seems as if this coworker is taking advantage from the information you have shared with us. It seems as if she is abusing the good faith you have extended her and taking more time than necessary. I mean, checking personal emails etc should not be part of the time she takes for pumping and away from the group who needs her. This is upsetting on a few levels the most important being that she is setting up a difficult environment for her coworkers and for the next woman who needs this time for pumping who would not abuse the right. This has less to do with allowing time for pumping and more to do with a coworker whose work ethic seems less than stellar (IMO).

 

[monarch64]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I am signed up for a class for breastfeeding/pumping moms returning to work or school. I was especially glad to see it available after reading this thread as it will help me navigate through the process more easily. Perhaps your co-worker can take advantage of some sort of education that is offered in your area regarding pumping at work!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

My daughter just returned to work a month ago and her baby was three months old at the time. She has the nice double medela pump and I think it takes less than a half hour. She pumps ONCE during the day during her lunch break and she is gone for 9 hours. She is a teacher and obviously teachers just can't take three 30 minute breaks a day!

When I briefly tried going back to work when my daughter was a few months old, I used formula during the day because we didn't have these nice pumps back then. I believe mothers should have a place to pump, but I honestly think it should be during their lunch or other breaks unless they honestly can work while pumping. If not, then I do not see why an employer would have to pay someone for 90 minutes of missed work time. And I AM pro-breastfeeding.

 

[Jennifer W]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

The problem with that is that not everyone has quite such an obliging body / schedule. Some of us would have to pump a lot more often than your daughter did to avoid discomfort, pain and in a few cases, infection. I think Circe has made this point earlier, and better than I will likely put it, but child bearing and raising is generally viewed as a benefit to society, of which employers are members. I can therefore see very compelling reasons for them to continue to pay people who take breaks to pump breastmilk.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I think it is important to allow nursing moms to pump at work and to allow for a sufficient amount of time. However, it seems as if this coworker is taking advantage from the information you have shared with us. It seems as if she is abusing the good faith you have extended her and taking more time than necessary. I mean, checking personal emails etc should not be part of the time she takes for pumping and away from the group who needs her. This is upsetting on a few levels the most important being that she is setting up a difficult environment for her coworkers and for the next woman who needs this time for pumping who would not abuse the right. This has less to do with allowing time for pumping and more to do with a coworker whose work ethic seems less than stellar (IMO).

You phrased it MUCH MORE diplomatically than I would have. She is taking major advantage of her co-workers. I would be LIVID. And I am a mom who nursed.

 

[steph72276]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I think it is important to allow nursing moms to pump at work and to allow for a sufficient amount of time. However, it seems as if this coworker is taking advantage from the information you have shared with us. It seems as if she is abusing the good faith you have extended her and taking more time than necessary. I mean, checking personal emails etc should not be part of the time she takes for pumping and away from the group who needs her. This is upsetting on a few levels the most important being that she is setting up a difficult environment for her coworkers and for the next woman who needs this time for pumping who would not abuse the right. This has less to do with allowing time for pumping and more to do with a coworker whose work ethic seems less than stellar (IMO).

You phrased it MUCH MORE diplomatically than I would have. She is taking major advantage of her co-workers. I would be LIVID. And I am a mom who nursed.

Did I miss something, or did the OP not state that the job is physical labor and there is no paperwork/sit behind a desk work that she could be performing during this time? So if not, should she just stare at the ceiling for 30 mintues while she pumps? I'm pretty sure she's not enjoying the process either, but she's doing what she needs to do to provide for her baby. I think the employer should have the responsibility to have someone else pick up the slack, because I'm sure it would be less expensive to do that than to hire and train someone else if she had to quit her job because she can't pump. Oh and obviously not everyone's body is the same and 1 time pumping during the day would probably not be sufficient to feed many 6 month olds, and it would be painful until your supply drops at which point she would have to supplement. I don't know why we make it so difficult for women to go back into the workforce after children.

 

[MissStepcut]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

You edited this? Really? Are you sure?


Personally, I don't plan to put my business at risk by thumbing my nose at the laws re: nursing mothers. Regardless of the one judge in TX. But many employers will think twice before hiring new moms; those laws don't leave much wiggle room for compliance.

Why wouldn't the laws regarding this - - since it has indeed been determined by the federal government to be a form of discrimination - - be upheld under EEOC? According to our insurance company, which recently provided training on this very subject and other HR issues, it would be. I tend to believe them, as their job is to keep us abreast (pun intended) of current laws and how we can best protect ourselves from lawsuits.

I've served on a federal jury (as the foreman) for a discrimination case under EEOC. I prefer not to assume it can never happen to my company.

I agree that following the law is generally a better idea than violating it, but you claimed that an employee could sue and "win big" for the employee's failure to provide a space, a claim I can find no basis for in the relevant administrative rules, case law, literature surrounding the law or legislation itself. Citizens don't have rights of actions against their employer for this sort of law just because the law exists. Some states may fine employers for their noncompliance, but that money doesn't go to the employee (for example, California has a provision for fining employers a whopping $100 per violation).

 

[mary poppins]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

You edited this? Really? Are you sure?


Personally, I don't plan to put my business at risk by thumbing my nose at the laws re: nursing mothers. Regardless of the one judge in TX. But many employers will think twice before hiring new moms; those laws don't leave much wiggle room for compliance.

Why wouldn't the laws regarding this - - since it has indeed been determined by the federal government to be a form of discrimination - - be upheld under EEOC? According to our insurance company, which recently provided training on this very subject and other HR issues, it would be. I tend to believe them, as their job is to keep us abreast (pun intended) of current laws and how we can best protect ourselves from lawsuits.

I've served on a federal jury (as the foreman) for a discrimination case under EEOC. I prefer not to assume it can never happen to my company.

I agree that following the law is generally a better idea than violating it, but you claimed that an employee could sue and "win big" for the employee's failure to provide a space, a claim I can find no basis for in the relevant administrative rules, case law, literature surrounding the law or legislation itself. Citizens don't have rights of actions against their employer for this sort of law just because the law exists. Some states may fine employers for their noncompliance, but that money doesn't go to the employee (for example, California has a provision for fining employers a whopping $100 per violation).

The Wage & Hour Division of the Department of Labor enforces the FLSA through investigations. Authorized representatives conduct investigations and gather data on wages, hours, and other employment conditions or practices, to determine compliance with the law. Where violations are found, they also may recommend changes in employment practices to bring an employer into compliance.

It is a violation to fire or in any other manner discriminate or retaliate against an employee for filing a complaint or for participating in a legal proceeding under the FLSA. Employers that discriminate or retaliate against an employee who files an FLSA complaint or participates in resulting proceedings are liable for fines, damages, attorney’s fees and, in the case of willful violations, liquidated damages. FLSA subjects employers to fines of up to $10,000 for the first offense and fines of up to $10,000, plus up to six months in prison, for subsequent offenses. An employee who suffers adverse action may recover back pay, reinstatement, front pay in lieu of reinstatement, damages for emotional distress, attorney’s fees, and, in the case of willful violations, punitive and/or liquidated damages. Courts vary as to injunctive relief.

So while an employee likely will not recover money for the company's failure to provide break or space, she can recover money if she complains to the employer and/or DOL and is able to prove adverse action by the employer (termination, discrimination, retaliation, demotion) as a result of/in response to the complaint.

Companies have great incentive to comply with the law, as well as state laws on the subject (many of which provide more benefits than the federal law). Companies are loath to experience any kind of government agency investigations and subsequent litigation - it's very costly in terms of personnel and financial resources as well as reputation.

I believe the article you posted (and your comments in reliance?) also contains other inaccurate or misleading information.

 

[HollyS]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I believe the article you posted (and your comments in reliance?) also contains other inaccurate or misleading information



Who is this comment directed toward? I did not quote an article or offer information. I only offered my opinion based upon my recent education at an employment law conference. I know the conference administrators well enough to heed their advice. Certainly more than I would rely upon anyone here.

 

[LJL]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Oh - and for fun - I interviewed at a really large company today and they have a company policy that says pregnant women get a one hour nap during the workday...they had a room with cots in it any everything.

LJL, can you tell us the name of the company and where they are located?

Sorry- I was away from my computer for a few days.
The company was Nationwide - not sure if they do it at all their locations, this was in Columbus, Ohio.

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Well, I have a rather unfortunate update. Since Friday, we had been implementing the new "solution", which was taking breaks during her pumping breaks to make the distribution of labor a little more fair. Sadly, after five days of trying that out, it's become very clear that we are just not finishing our daily workload when we include the two breaks in our day, or if we do finish, it's very rushed and chaotic. So, alas, it's back to no breaks for us and we'll just have to accept that we have to pick up the slack while she is pumping.

I do sincerely thank you guys for educating me via this thread, especially on the legal aspect. Now that I know what she is legally entitled to, I can at least be annoyed with the general situation and not with her specifically.

 

[yennyfire]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I'm sorry that it didn't work out better sonnyjane. Hang in there. Hopefully, she'll pay it forward to you or another Mom in the future.