This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and work

[sonnyjane]

Hi all. I want to start with the disclaimer that I don't really want this thread to turn into a pro/anti-breastfeeding thread, nor do I want it to turn into a pro/anti-working mom thread. I'm asking this question because I don't have much experience with this topic and I'd like to know what others think is reasonable and how you'd go about broaching the subject.

I work in a very small group - in fact there are only three of us total in my department. Because we each need two days off a week, 6 days a week there are only two employees, with all three of us being there together one day a week. I work with a woman that currently has a 6 month old and she is still breastfeeding him, which means that when she is at work for 8 hours, she needs to pump regularly. The problem is, her pumping breaks are negatively affecting our work day. She currently breaks for 30 minutes in the morning, 30 minutes in the afternoon around lunchtime (but not during her lunch break), and for 30 minutes toward the end of the day. During these breaks, she uses the computer to check her personal email account, browses the internet, or reads gossip magazines. In other words, she is not working during these breaks, yet is still on the clock. This is 90 minutes of time that she is getting paid yet not working, and more so than that, it is 90 minutes during the day that my co-worker and I have to carry the entire work load on our days when we work with her, as she is half of the two-person team and many of our tasks require both of us to be present. There is no official policy on breastfeeding at my company, but we also do not receive any breaks during the day other than a 30 minute lunch, so if I wanted to bring this up to her, I can't cite anything saying she CAN'T take these breaks for as long as she does, but I also can't cite anything that says she can either. I would talk to my supervisor, but I'd like to discuss this with her first instead, since I don't want her to get in trouble.

For a while we hadn't brought it up with her, since we realize that we have to keep the peace in such a close-knit work environment, but she announced to us at lunch the other day that she intends to keep breastfeeding for at least the first year of her child's life, which means at least 6 more months of this schedule, which I'm just not enthusiastic about dealing with. I think that I would be much more understanding if she was apologetic, but she doesn't ever feel sorry for sticking us with so much work or even say something like "I'm sorry guys, but I have to go pump". She more just seems to disappear for 30 minutes at a time, severely limiting what we can accomplish during the workday.

For those that did juggle breastfeeding and work, how did you deal with this issue and what is a reasonable amount of time that needs to be spent breastfeeding? We are kind of under the impression that she is taking advantage of us, but as I said, I'm not a parent yet so I'm not sure what is normal and what is not. Also, knowing that this is something we could be dealing with for the next 6 months or so, do you have any advice on how to phrase this so that it's not an all-out attack on her choices, but lets her know that we cannot happily continue this way?

Thank you in advance...

 

[yennyfire]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I have been a pump at work Mom, so I see both sides of this issue. I don't recall it taking me 30 min. to pump, but as I never pumped with other people, I can't say if this is unusually long or not. I can say that I was able to pump in an empty conference room and that I was able to keep working while I pumped. Not phone calls, because the pump was too loud, but on presentations, paperwork etc. If your job is something where she could be productive doing something while she pumps, then it would be worth it to discuss it with her. Something like "I'm want to be totally supportive of your choice to breastfeed, however, I'm falling behind on my other work when you take time to pump and need coverage. Do you think you could help by doing....while you pump?". If you work at a job where you're on the phone all day (I.e. Customer service or something) where she can't pump while on the phone in public view, then I think you either have to suck it up or talk to your boss. I hope you can figure things out. I can imagine that it's very frustrating.

 

[distracts]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

That actually sounds like a pretty reasonable pumping schedule from what people I know who pumped have said. I've known people who had to either quit pumping or quit work because in order to keep from getting painfully engorged and keep the milk flowing they had to pump every hour to two hours.

I don't know what you do but is it possible for her to work while pumping? You could let her know you support her choice to continue breastfeeding but that it's causing more work for you and your coworker, and ask that she either continue working while she pumps or stays late to play catchup. I don't know that it would be something you guys would be willing to put up with, but if she could pump in the office instead of having to duck out, that might make it easier. I'm sure she feels weird talking about it since most people get so RAWR judgmental about mothering, so when you talk to her, please, please be as polite and understanding as possible.

 

[Circe]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Ditto to Yenny - I'm actually pumping now, and while it does take me half an hour, I usually use that half hour to grade papers or somesuch. Now, admittedly, there are times when the pumping makes it hard for me to concentrate (it's a physically taxing activity, and it's not particularly pleasant), but I don't think it would be unreasonable for you to ask her to, say, stay on top of company e-mail or the like ....

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Thank you yenny, distracts, and circe. It's clear based on how many people read this thread vs. the three of you that responded so far that this is a touchy subject.

My job is unique in that it is a physical labor job. There is no computer or phone work that she could do while pumping. Everything is cleaning or lifting things, so as I said, if she's not working with us, that just leaves one person to do all the cleaning or heavy lifting. She also can't stay later to catch up because the rules state that two of us have to be present at all times (a safety issue), so she couldn't stay later without me being there. Those are great suggestions for someone working in an office job though.

This is a sticky situation

 

[yennyfire]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Yikes, I don't know what to suggest. I'm sorry. It sure would go a long way if she acknowledged your picking up the slack and was appreciative.

 

[Circe]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I hate to say it, but ... under those conditions, I think you sort of have to carry the load and hope that when karma comes round and you're the one who needs the slack (not just for breast-feeding, either) she'll provide it. Like Distracts said, a half hour break every 6 hours is actually really good - I need half an hour every 3-4 hours (I can go 6, but it's uncomfortable and I prefer not to). If there's no part of the job she can do in a stationary position and/or make up later in the day ... that sounds like a flaw in the system, and not something this particular woman has under her control.

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I hate to say it, but ... under those conditions, I think you sort of have to carry the load and hope that when karma comes round and you're the one who needs the slack (not just for breast-feeding, either) she'll provide it. Like Distracts said, a half hour break every 6 hours is actually really good - I need half an hour every 3-4 hours (I can go 6, but it's uncomfortable and I prefer not to). If there's no part of the job she can do in a stationary position and/or make up later in the day ... that sounds like a flaw in the system, and not something this particular woman has under her control.

Yeah, Circe that's kind of why we haven't mentioned it before this. My other co-worker and I are both thinking about starting a family in the next few years, so we don't want to burn any bridges, but this experience has actually made both of us reconsider breastfeeding while working. You see, our company, while there is a flaw in the system regarding breaks, does allow for 5 months maternity leave, which from what I've researched is really pretty generous by US standards. She is breaking every 2 to 3 hours for 30 minutes at a time, so I was just wondering if that was normal or not. Sounds like it is, it's just a pain that she can't do anything else during that time.

Sigh

 

[Maria D]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

What would happen if, during the 90 minutes per day that a two-person crew needs to become a one-person crew, that one person took it easy. No heavy lifting during those times, wait for the "pumper" to be back before you tackle any of that. If it's a safety requirement that two people are present then it stands to reason that one person shouldn't be expected to do a task that requires two.

 

[LALove]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Could she maybe get to work a bit early (before her shift starts) to pump, pump on her lunch break and stay a bit later after work? I'd talk to her as Yennyfire & circe suggested - be very polite and let her know that while you support her decision, taking 90 mins off work each day is affecting your job. Suggest the above and see what she thinks or ask if she has any ideas on how to improve the situation. I didn't pump- I have the luxury of working for family and was able to have DS at work with me full time from 2 wks old until he was 1. Of course having a baby with me affected my job and everyone else who had to pick up my slack so I came in early, stayed late and took 5 min lunches. It doesn't seem like your co-worker is taking her teammates into consideration with this schedule (If she was, I'd think she'd at least thank you for covering for her). Or she's not aware that there's a problem.

 

[nkarma]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

The only suggestion I would have for you is for the pumping to be her lunch break. I am not a mother, so have not pumped, but we all have to spend our lunch hour doing things that are not just eating/breaking, so I would hope she can eat & BF too. The other BFing breaks have to be the way they now are since she cannot do anything else during that time.

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

What would happen if, during the 90 minutes per day that a two-person crew needs to become a one-person crew, that one person took it easy. No heavy lifting during those times, wait for the "pumper" to be back before you tackle any of that. If it's a safety requirement that two people are present then it stands to reason that one person shouldn't be expected to do a task that requires two.

Valid points. The only thing I'll say is that if the other person took it easy during the pumping breaks, we wouldn't accomplish all of our daily tasks, as our day is pretty packed. As far as the safety issue, technically she is not allowed to be taking these breaks, but we have been keeping her pumping a secret because we know it's important to her to pump, so we don't want her to get in trouble. If we waited for her and didn't finish all our work for the day, our manager would ask why and we would have to "out" her for pumping, so we have been picking up the slack to protect her. Now we are realizing that we have set a bad precedent.

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

The only suggestion I would have for you is for the pumping to be her lunch break. I am not a mother, so have not pumped, but we all have to spend our lunch hour doing things that are not just eating/breaking, so I would hope she can eat & BF too. The other BFing breaks have to be the way they now are since she cannot do anything else during that time.

Thanks. I think this is something I feel comfortable suggesting. I probably can't get her to not take the two mid-day breaks, but if she could pump during lunch, it would be a great compromise. Thanks guys

 

[Fly Girl]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Another option for a young mom is partial weening.

I breastfed my babies, and when I went back to work at around 4-5 months, I gave up the daytime feedings, but kept the evening, night and morning feedings. I hated pumping, so the baby got fed formula when I was at work. Your body adjusts fairly quickly to a different feeding schedule. Basically, your body produces what the baby ate yesterday. To give up a feeding, you need to express a bit the next day to relieve the fullness, but your body makes less the following day, and it doesn't take long until you can work through the entire day.

Mother and baby are a wonderful, symbiotic relationship. I think its great to breastfeed, but pumping is not mandatory at work.

BTW, I was planning to breastfeed for an entire year, but both of my babies had other ideas and weened before then. I suspect your coworker is enjoying her milk breaks from work, and yes, that does end up being a delicate problem for the group.

 

[Imdanny]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

In what world do you get to take 1 1/2 hrs off when you are at work? That's really ridiculous.

 

[Munchkin]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Look into your state laws regarding a Mom's right/ability to pump at work without penalty. Some states actually mandate a break whereas others simply state a woman can't be fired for pumping. The state laws trump company policy. Most agree, however that a woman needn't be compensated while pumping. Is she on the clock?

Personally, I got to work early, pumped prior to my first patient, pumped at lunch (I was pretty uncomfortable by the end of that 4th hour!) and then either pumped at the end of the day in office or right when I got home. Side note: I work for a pediatric practice and there STILL wasn't much flexibility for me! Pathetic, but not illegal and I guess it's to be expected when joining a practice where all the owners are older males whose wives never worked.

So, in a nut shell, I feel for you. You feel like you're being taken advantage of and your coworker probably doesn't realize that she's hurting all of you. As far as she sees, it's a great gig! I would be honest and tell her that the 90 minutes away from the job every day is taking its toll and ask if she could pump at work before starting and at lunch so at least two of her breaks aren't on company time.

ETA: Just to clarify, my pumping schedule meant that unless there was an odd gap between appointments (rare in our group with 30,000 active patients) I pumped on my time, not the company's.

ETA: Start to finish, including clean up and storage, I was usually done in under 20 minutes.

 

[packrat]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Wow, I must have the squirtiest boobs ever-it never took me 30 minutes to pump w/either of my kids, not even w/prep and clean up time. I had a double pump tho, electric Medela, so maybe that made a difference. A coworker where I worked when I had London took 30 minutes twice a day but she had a one pump jobbie. The Dr.'s office where I work now if full of pro-breastfeeding employees and no one there even on a 10 or 12 hour work day spends 90 minutes a day pumping. My office if full of the cattiest women I've ever encountered so if someone was spending 90 minutes a day pumping I'd know. The one currently takes two 15 minute breaks or so, which is what I used to take.

 

[Circe]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

In what world do you get to take 1 1/2 hrs off when you are at work? That's really ridiculous.

Nope, it's feminine anatomy. The idea that adapting to female anatomical need is "ridiculous," from maternity leave to breast-feeding to active combat (ladies could ... attract sharks! or rape! anyway, more trouble than men do!) is actually kind of the definition of sexism.

In other countries, it's just kind of accepted that while child-bearing isn't a benefit to the company, it's a benefit to the society, and it's seen as another kind of work, and factored into the system, with allowances made for the parent and her co-workers (temps, etc.). It really IS ridiculous that SJ and her other coworker have to keep this on the DL (though I have to say, you get major karma points for having held out this long before checking to see if it was normal/how it might be adjusted), but more productive than bitching out the stray coworker would be to legislate to change the system. 'Cause from another perspective? It's kinda ridiculous that women frequently have to choose between work and health* ....

* I do not want this up-to-now reasonable thread to devolve into another breast-feeding debate re: kids; just pointing out that poor pumping conditions can cause a plethora of unpleasant things for ladies.

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Thank you all again for keeping this civil I know it's a sensitive topic. After reading your replies, I do think I need to bring it up so that I don't continue resenting her, and so that she can be aware of how her actions are affecting us. Over the last several months, her 15 minute breaks have turned to 20, then 25, and now 30... so I think she's just becoming a little too comfortable in this new schedule and maybe just needs a reminder that she is, indeed, on the clock and that she should try to be as efficient as possible. We are union employees, so clocking in/out has a whole bunch of special rules that means it's not just as simple as clocking out while she's pumping to make it fair.

My other co-worker and I will both be working with her on Saturday and we kind of discussed today that we need to have this talk with her, but I wanted to do a little "research" here before I went into that discussion, and I'm glad I did

Thanks again for sticking to the topic at hand! I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Imdanny]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

OP, this is a kind of difficult question out of necessity but what are the state laws, company policy, and union policy? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to because it might complicated and we don't need to know exactly. I guess my thoughts are rather to the point that from what you've described your co-worker has unilaterally taken it upon herself to take 1 1/2 hours a day. If that's the case, no, I don't see how it could be right, and the fact that you are doing physical tasks, well, that makes it kind of an impossible situation. Good luck! Please follow up with us and let us know what happens.

 

[TooPatient]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Everything is cleaning or lifting things, so as I said, if she's not working with us, that just leaves one person to do all the cleaning or heavy lifting. She also can't stay later to catch up because the rules state that two of us have to be present at all times (a safety issue), so she couldn't stay later without me being there. Those are great suggestions for someone working in an office job though.

This is a sticky situation

Rules state that there MUST be two people present at all times because of safety concerns..... but when she is pumping, there is only one of you.

What happens if someone gets hurt while she is pumping?


If she could get the pumping down to 15 minutes, even several times a day, that would be a lot safer for all of you. Maybe even chip in for one of the double pumps one of the ladies mentioned to help her out?

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

IMDanny, our union handbook doesn't mention it. It just covers the maternity leave but not issues like this once returning. I just checked our state law and it does say that an employer should allow for these breaks, but that when possible, they should coincide with sanctioned break times or else be unpaid breaks. I think the compromise will be asking her to pump during lunch and then she can (by state law) pump during the day, it's just that she isn't technically supposed to be paid for that time. Since our union has quirky swiping rules, she wouldn't be allowed to swipe out at the times she pumps, but at least maybe she will be more mindful of how long she is taking. Eeek I'll keep you posted, as long as I don't chicken out!!!!!

 

[Imdanny]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

* I do not want this up-to-now reasonable thread to devolve into another breast-feeding debate re: kids; just pointing out that poor pumping conditions can cause a plethora of unpleasant things for ladies.

Yes, of course. I didn't mean I don't think women need to breastfeed at work. I just meant it seems there ought to be rules, for everyone's benefit, and I can't help but think that there are- whether they're "good" or "bad" or indifferent in another story.

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

If she could get the pumping down to 15 minutes, even several times a day, that would be a lot safer for all of you. Maybe even chip in for one of the double pumps one of the ladies mentioned to help her out?

She already has one, which is why, after reading these replies, I'm thinking she's pumping at a rather leisurely pace...

 

[Fly Girl]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

Over the last several months, her 15 minute breaks have turned to 20, then 25, and now 30... so I think she's just becoming a little too comfortable in this new schedule and maybe just needs a reminder that she is, indeed, on the clock and that she should try to be as efficient as possible.

The longer she pumps, the more milk her body will make the next day. She should be pumping only what the baby is eating when she feeds him/her on her days off, and no longer than that. Babies do eat more as they grow, so that could be a reason why it is taking longer. But, they also begin dropping feedings after a time, often beginning with the middle-of-the-night one, because of the strong desire of the parents for sleep.

Just saying that her baby has needs, but schedules are also somewhat flexible. Good luck.

 

[Circe]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

* I do not want this up-to-now reasonable thread to devolve into another breast-feeding debate re: kids; just pointing out that poor pumping conditions can cause a plethora of unpleasant things for ladies.

Yes, of course. I didn't mean I don't think women need to breastfeed at work. I just meant it seems there ought to be rules, for everyone's benefit, and I can't help but think that there are- whether they're "good" or "bad" or indifferent in another story.

Indeed - agree 100%. From the sound of it, the rules at SJ's workplace maybe haven't expanded to cover these sorts of situations as yet ...?

 

[Laila619]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I greatly admire her for pumping (it's hard work and a lot of time and dedication), but I do sort of wonder if she is stretching her pumping breaks and using a little more time than she needs. Some people take advantage of a good situation and that's a shame. Not sure what you can really do though unfortunately. I know it must be very annoying, but you will probably really appreciate the family friendly environment when it's your turn to have kiddos. Hang in there, it's only another 6 months!

 

[MissStepcut]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

IMDanny, our union handbook doesn't mention it. It just covers the maternity leave but not issues like this once returning. I just checked our state law and it does say that an employer should allow for these breaks, but that when possible, they should coincide with sanctioned break times or else be unpaid breaks. I think the compromise will be asking her to pump during lunch and then she can (by state law) pump during the day, it's just that she isn't technically supposed to be paid for that time. Since our union has quirky swiping rules, she wouldn't be allowed to swipe out at the times she pumps, but at least maybe she will be more mindful of how long she is taking. Eeek I'll keep you posted, as long as I don't chicken out!!!!!

Does anyone else find it just bizarre that the employee handbook, state law and union handbook all leave this issue out?! It's almost like women don't make up nearly half the workforce...

 

[monarch64]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/breastfeeding-state-laws.aspx

I have not yet given birth or returned to work with my breast pump, but I have checked out the laws in my state just to see what the stipulations are. This is the website I found that gave me some guidance, and I am sure my employer and I will be having a conversation about this soon. I am already anxious about returning to work and pumping, as I work with all male employees. Choosing to pump is unfortunately not something I will be taking for granted.

 

[Kunzite]

Re: This could get ugly - Question about breastfeeding and w

I pumped at work for almost 8 months and the only issue I see is that she's not using her lunch break to help make up for the time she's away. I always tried to arrange my schedule to do this, if her hands are free to read/surf the web then they're free to eat. As far as the length of time it takes her, it only sounds a little long to me. The general "rule" is that it takes about 5 minutes per hour you've gone. So it sounds like she pumps every three hours, so actual pumping would be 15 minutes. That doesn't include time to get to the pumping room, get your parts set up, get yourself set up, clean parts afterwards, pack everything up, get the milk to the fridge, and then get yourself back to work. I'd say all of that would be 25 minutes, and since we're talking about 30 that's really splitting hairs. Good luck! I agree that it sounds like the general lack of guidelines is really the problem.

ETA: good link Monarch! I like the part in the FAQ that states the mother must be allowed to pump "as frequently as needed" essentially leaving it up to the mother: http://www.dol.gov/whd/nursingmothers/faqBTNM.htm