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Think I Found "The One" - Princess Cut - But...

Speedie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
20
First of all thank-you for this amazing resource. I have been lurking, reading, and absorbing for quite a while before making this important decision.

I have been looking for a Princess Cut, > 1ct, preferably triple-X, with color > I and clarity > VS1. Budget for the stone is around the $4K mark. Yesterday I found this at JamesAllen.com and immediately put it on hold / requested an ASET:

GIA Certified
1.11ct
I color
VVS2 clarity
Listed as "ideal cut"
Excellent polish and symmetry
No fluorescence
5.50 x 5.48 x 4.0mm
Thick to Very Thick girdle
67% table
73% depth

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.11-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-636389

I have looked at their wonderfully detailed images until I'm almost cross-eyed, but darned if I can see the crystal inclusion that is noted on the report. Not even at 20x. It looks very white for an I color to my untrained eye, and I (more importantly, the intended she) prefer sparkle over flash, so the 4 chevrons is a plus. The only negative seems to be the girdle, but given that she's more than a little accident-prone I'm not so sure that it's a disadvantage. From a purely sentimental point of view, our first date was on 1/1/11 so a 1.11ct stone amuses me!

The "but..." that I alluded to is more of a "what am I missing"? This is obviously a vendor with a great reputation, but at $3,860 shipped (after new customer and wire discounts) it seems too good to be true for a stone with those specs. Nothing in the 1.1ct range is even close to that price.

Any thoughts or observations on what I'm not seeing please? Or is it truly just a great deal?
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
4,135
This diamond is not going to sparkle very much - the middle is just yucky. Did you get the aset for it?
 

Speedie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
20
telephone89|1446316361|3944231 said:
This diamond is not going to sparkle very much - the middle is just yucky. Did you get the aset for it?

Requested it, probably going to be a day or two. Could you expand a little on "yucky" please?
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
4,135
Lots of leakage. One of the best things about JA is their videos - you can see as it turns that the middle doesn't sparkle at all. Its just dead.
 

Speedie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
20
telephone89|1446318738|3944248 said:
Compare it to this one, ags0 ideal light performance. As it turns, you see all the facets turning on and off, that will be the glittery sparkle youll see IRL.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.02-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-382029

I must be blind as a bat or focusing on the wrong areas as the stones turn :wall:

I have the stone that you linked to plus a couple of other AGS-0 light performance stones up on my screen, as well as the stone in my original post. I see the occasional larger flash from the AGS-0 stones, but nothing jumps out at me as any different in terms of the much smaller sparkles

For the record I am very left brained so it could be that I'm subconsciously absorbing things like symmetry and general geometry rather than light because that's just how I'm wired. For example I can't ever imagine how a room in my house would look painted a different color, but I will notice the second I walk in if a picture is a couple of degrees off level. It's a curse sometimes. I don't for one moment doubt your opinion btw, I just wish I could see it the same way that you do.

I guess ASET images were made for people like me!
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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4,135
So this is a good picture to see - see in the 4 'quadrants' there are the spikes? They don't do anything - they all blend together and are just... there. They don't turn on or off, or add anything to the stone. That is what I don't like about this one.

eta- also keep in mind that this picture is blown up 20x. So, looking at the stone at regular size (you can zoom out), there is just no life in the center of the stone. The ags has some movement

2015-10-31_13-32-35.png

2015-10-31_13-40-54.png
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dec 17, 2008
Messages
25,991
Ditto what telephone is saying. You want clearly defined facets under the table. The stone you picked looks "mushy" under the table.
These areas usually do not return light well.
 

Speedie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
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telephone89|1446320186|3944254 said:
So this is a good picture to see - see in the 4 'quadrants' there are the spikes? They don't do anything - they all blend together and are just... there. They don't turn on or off, or add anything to the stone. That is what I don't like about this one.

eta- also keep in mind that this picture is blown up 20x. So, looking at the stone at regular size (you can zoom out), there is just no life in the center of the stone. The ags has some movement

Ah. Yes, I see it a little better if I deliberately force myself to focus on the spikes. We'll see what the ASET comes back like, but it looks like it may well be back to the drawing board. Ugh.

Thank-you sincerely for the input :)
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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Of course!

I'm not sure if the ags stone is within budget if you are able to get the advantage discount and refer a friend (refer yourself if you have 2 email addresses), but WF also has some in the 4k range. Even though this one is a 1.11, it faces up smaller than some of the smaller ones - in fact the 1.02 ags0 faces up only a smidge smaller than the 1.11.
 

Speedie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
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telephone89|1446321757|3944265 said:
Of course!

I'm not sure if the ags stone is within budget if you are able to get the advantage discount and refer a friend (refer yourself if you have 2 email addresses), but WF also has some in the 4k range. Even though this one is a 1.11, it faces up smaller than some of the smaller ones - in fact the 1.02 ags0 faces up only a smidge smaller than the 1.11.

Going through some of the AGS-0 stones on JA at the moment, might be able to squeeze a couple of them within budget after wire and new customer discounts. A little bummed having thought that I'd found "it" so will probably leave it a few days before making any final decisions. Will post the ASET for the original stone when it comes in so you can say I told you so :D
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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Sorry to have rained on your parade!! Just want you to get the best you can :mrgreen:
 

Speedie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
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telephone89|1446328113|3944301 said:
Sorry to have rained on your parade!! Just want you to get the best you can :mrgreen:

Oh don't take it the wrong way, you've been incredibly helpful! You know how it is though, you watch JA videos, go through PS searches, hunt through inventory at different vendors until you go cross-eyed and see diamonds when you close your eyes, and just when you think you've finally got it...nope.

I've been looking at a couple of stones where one is AGS-0 on all counts and another is AGS-0 except for light performance which is AGS-1. Does it make a bigger difference in person than it does online? I'm really pushed to tell the difference except for the price tag.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
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Speedie|1446319654|3944250 said:
For the record I am very left brained so it could be that I'm subconsciously absorbing things like symmetry and general geometry rather than light because that's just how I'm wired. For example I can't ever imagine how a room in my house would look painted a different color, but I will notice the second I walk in if a picture is a couple of degrees off level. It's a curse sometimes. I don't for one moment doubt your opinion btw, I just wish I could see it the same way that you do.

I guess ASET images were made for people like me!

As far as I know brain laterality dominance was a myth from the early 80s that was debunked by a sizeable study from a university in Utah a couple years ago.You have what it takes to be a great prosumer! Practise makes perfect.
 

motownmama

Ideal_Rock
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8,151
You can always get the stone to take a look and satisfy your curiosity and send it back.
 

Speedie

Rough_Rock
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Oct 31, 2015
Messages
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So once more unto the breach, dear friends:

1) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.03-carat-i-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-283660

Almost the exact same price as the original stone, AGS-0 on polish and symmetry, and AGS-1 (excellent) on light performance.

Looks to be some weakness at the 3 'o' clock area on the ASET that's holding it back from ideal? Still might be a better buy than the original stone, and it faces up slightly bigger despite the lower weight. It does appear to have a touch more color despite them both being I grades. The setting will be platinum so that might not be a big deal.

2) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.01-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-382006

AGS-0 on polish, symmetry, and light performance. Seems a touch whiter than (1) above. This would be pushing the very top end of my budget, but looks very nice. Does face up a fair bit smaller than (1) and is VS1 versus VVS1 for the trivial difference that makes to the naked eye.

3) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.00-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-735657

GIA graded so no light performance, but this one really caught my eye. Every facet seems to catch the light as it turns. Strangely the details page lists measurements such as crown degree, crown %, pavilion degree, and pavilion % which aren't on GIA certs. Not sure why those numbers would be there. This one would also be right at the top end of my budget, and faces up small for a 1ct, but it's quite the dazzler. Not in NY so no chance of an ASET.

4) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.00-carat-i-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-705926

Also GIA graded, and like (3) it's an eye-catcher. Faces up bigger than the original 1.11ct stone, a little concerned about the depth % which is on the low side. Also not in NY so no ASET. Would be going just on the JA video.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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Did you already choose one? Neither of them appear to be on hold, might want to do that to keep them reserved!

Out of those two I'd go with the last one. I like the colour of the 1.00 though.
 

AdaBeta27

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
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Sep 7, 2004
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1,017
"I" color in princess is definitely going to be the creamy ivory and not the colorless look. That said, the 1.00's color looks the lightest. The others look about what I'd expect from an I color princess. The depth of them plus the pointy corners concentrated the tint. Same thing happens with pear and marquise. If you want a whiter looking I color stone, go with a modern H&A round or perhaps a H&A cushion.
 
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