The truth about Super Ideal Cut triple ex. Hearts and Arrows???
- Thread starter BKDJ
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I have an ACA from WF and I am absolutely in love with it!!!! I get so many compliments daily on how incredibly sparkly it is. I wanted to get the best of the best so to speak, so that's why I went with one of these stones.
Some vendors claim to have superideal H&A, but they are not all created equally. WF range of ACA are true examples. They are very tightly cut, top performing stones that are handpicked by Brian himself, and display perfect hearts and arrows. If you want to know you are getting perfect optical symmetry and a killer cut stones, then a superideal is the way to go.
That said, you can find some stunning stones that are not true H&A. They may have missed out for various reasons, or are not marketed as such. So, if you want to make an easy purchase, go for a branded superideal, if you want to save a little money (not that much though) do your homework and search for an really nicely cut ideal stone.
Some vendors claim to have superideal H&A, but they are not all created equally. WF range of ACA are true examples. They are very tightly cut, top performing stones that are handpicked by Brian himself, and display perfect hearts and arrows. If you want to know you are getting perfect optical symmetry and a killer cut stones, then a superideal is the way to go.
That said, you can find some stunning stones that are not true H&A. They may have missed out for various reasons, or are not marketed as such. So, if you want to make an easy purchase, go for a branded superideal, if you want to save a little money (not that much though) do your homework and search for an really nicely cut ideal stone.
Ellen
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:)
Brilliant_Rock
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DivaDiamond007
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BK - I''ll be the dissenter and say that in real life nobody cares if your diamond is the best of the best of the best and graded by the head honcho of the AGS/GIA/whatever. My diamond came from the mall (waaayyyy prior to my finding PS) and is beautiful. That said, if DH and I could do it over we''d probably do some more research and get a better deal - I''m sure we overpaid.
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Diamonds near the top of the cut quality ladder do look the best to most observers, but not every last person would agree. You do find some people who are more driven by size and budget constraints who choose to pick a lesser cut in order to fulfill their needs.
Diamonds near the top of the grading scheme in cut all look pretty much wonderful and pretty. There may or may not be visual or technical differences of importance among many of them, but that is what marketing and brand name recognition is all about. The most important aspect of a costly purchase is to do your homework and make your decisions with knowledge and planning, not on impulse. Once you know the subject and have a handle on what choices exist, you can make an informed decision which suits you best.
When I bought my wife a large round diamond ten years ago I purchased a slight compromise in cut from what would pass as Ideal in the market. I kept it to a 2A AGA cut Class and got her at least an extra 15% in size which I knew she'd appreciate more. Buyers on the Internet tend to purchase finely cut diamonds as a safety net to prevent making the mistake of ordering an ugly diamond. It is a good approach, but sort of an overkill situation. It is the equivalent of using a large caliber bullet to shoot a game bird. It'll do the job, but it is using more resources than required.
I personally appreciate finely cut diamonds, but have no problem with a step or two below the top, just as I like H colors about as much as I like D colors, or VS2's as much as I like VVS1's.
Diamonds near the top of the grading scheme in cut all look pretty much wonderful and pretty. There may or may not be visual or technical differences of importance among many of them, but that is what marketing and brand name recognition is all about. The most important aspect of a costly purchase is to do your homework and make your decisions with knowledge and planning, not on impulse. Once you know the subject and have a handle on what choices exist, you can make an informed decision which suits you best.
When I bought my wife a large round diamond ten years ago I purchased a slight compromise in cut from what would pass as Ideal in the market. I kept it to a 2A AGA cut Class and got her at least an extra 15% in size which I knew she'd appreciate more. Buyers on the Internet tend to purchase finely cut diamonds as a safety net to prevent making the mistake of ordering an ugly diamond. It is a good approach, but sort of an overkill situation. It is the equivalent of using a large caliber bullet to shoot a game bird. It'll do the job, but it is using more resources than required.
I personally appreciate finely cut diamonds, but have no problem with a step or two below the top, just as I like H colors about as much as I like D colors, or VS2's as much as I like VVS1's.
elle_chris
Ideal_Rock
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I once posted to someone who had a similiar question;
Between my ACA, my GOG H&A and my e-ring stone which is just a GIA ex,ex,ex (but with great proportions) I can NOT see a visual difference.
If the stone is well cut and has a good idealscope image, you're not gonna get a dog.
My e-ring stone is not an H&A but I can still see arrows in it. Are they as prominent as my H&A stones? Probably not, but to the naked eye (at least mine) it's almost impossible to see the difference. The performance however is amazing and to me, that's all that really counts.
I would not sacrifice color, clarity or size for my e-ring to get a top notch super duper, H&A ideal cut stone. I was aiming for balance with a great performer. I believe I got that.
Between my ACA, my GOG H&A and my e-ring stone which is just a GIA ex,ex,ex (but with great proportions) I can NOT see a visual difference.
If the stone is well cut and has a good idealscope image, you're not gonna get a dog.
My e-ring stone is not an H&A but I can still see arrows in it. Are they as prominent as my H&A stones? Probably not, but to the naked eye (at least mine) it's almost impossible to see the difference. The performance however is amazing and to me, that's all that really counts.
I would not sacrifice color, clarity or size for my e-ring to get a top notch super duper, H&A ideal cut stone. I was aiming for balance with a great performer. I believe I got that.
arjunajane
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I have my original ering ("classic" RB cuts), and my upgraded ring with AGS000 H&A - absolutely I can see a difference, very much so.
My first ring always has impressed me and sparkles like you would expect, however I feel receiving an ideal H&A really showed me "the next level" of diamond cut performance.
Diva Diamond, you are absolutely correct that your "average person" IRL does not know or care about diamond grading and super-ideal cuts etc etc. But what they do know, is that when they see those stones, they sparkle and fire and everything else in a very noticeable way, and set themselves apart from your "average" diamond.
Just tonight I was at dinner, and everybody at the table was amazed at the way my ring shone - do they know or care why? Nope! But they do notice the performance.
My first ring always has impressed me and sparkles like you would expect, however I feel receiving an ideal H&A really showed me "the next level" of diamond cut performance.
Diva Diamond, you are absolutely correct that your "average person" IRL does not know or care about diamond grading and super-ideal cuts etc etc. But what they do know, is that when they see those stones, they sparkle and fire and everything else in a very noticeable way, and set themselves apart from your "average" diamond.
Just tonight I was at dinner, and everybody at the table was amazed at the way my ring shone - do they know or care why? Nope! But they do notice the performance.
Ellen
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Yep. They don't know why it's different, but they know it is.Date: 9/5/2008 11:07:12 AM
Author: arjunajane
I have my original ering ('classic' RB cuts), and my upgraded ring with AGS000 H&A - absolutely I can see a difference, very much so.
My first ring always has impressed me and sparkles like you would expect, however I feel receiving an ideal H&A really showed me 'the next level' of diamond cut performance.
Diva Diamond, you are absolutely correct that your 'average person' IRL does not know or care about diamond grading and super-ideal cuts etc etc. But what they do know, is that when they see those stones, they sparkle and fire and everything else in a very noticeable way, and set themselves apart from your 'average' diamond.
Just tonight I was at dinner, and everybody at the table was amazed at the way my ring shone - do they know or care why? Nope! But they do notice the performance.
I love the story about how we went to a new piano bar that had a black ceiling and hundreds of teeny spotlights. My diamond literally shimmered (quite noticeably) little rainbows all over. When I first saw it, I busted out laughing, I couldn't help it. Everyone was in awe, the waitress even commented on it.
Sadly, the place closed, and I've yet to capture THAT particular performance again.
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Anthony,
Ideal is a term used by AGS to describe a particular proportion set or actually a group of proportion sets for stones. This also gets called ‘triple zero’ because the AGS grading scale assigns a numeric grading scale with zero as the best grade and ‘Ideal’ requires a zero score in all three areas of light performance, polish and symmetry. This system was such a hit that lots of other people started using their own definitions and those definitions are all over the map. ‘Ideal’ means nothing without the accompanying definition and standard.
‘Super Ideal’, presumably means a definition that’s more narrow than ‘ideal’. This leads to the same definitional problem as the above but it seems to have originated from people who have observed that all AGS-0-Ideal cut diamonds don’t look the same and they added their own selection process to differentiate regular-ideal from super-ideal, however it is that they choose to define that. Presumably it’s better to be super. Out of context it means nothing and, of course, not everyone will agree on what constitutes super.
Triple x or XXX means a stone graded by GIA as excellent in cut, polish and symmetry. Since Excellent cut allows for ‘Very Good’ in either polish or symmetry grades this is slightly more specific than just the ‘Excellent’ cut grade. Triple X sounds sort of like triple zero and so it gets used quite a bit by people who want to describe their stone as being really top shelf. It’s fantastically rare to have a stone graded by both labs for no better reason than the cost of lab fees so a super-ideal triple Ex. As described in the headline is a bit hard to arrange although I suppose you could do it if you want.
Hearts and arrows is a pattern in the symmetry sometimes seen when a stone viewed through a special viewer that lots of jewelers have. It’s not particularly well defined either and lots of stones show a pattern that looks at least a bit like H&A so lots of dealers are happy to point this out as evidence of a precision cut stone. This includes some of the above mentioned ideal, super ideal and XXX stones although each of those categories can exist without H&A and a stone can be called H&A without being eligible for any of those.
There has been *LOTS* of discussion on the forum about all 3 of these concepts and how they might relate to one another both as general concepts and with regard to a particular stone. Use the search tool for some of the various words and you can keep yourself up reading all night.
And that''s the truth. bwwth.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver
Ideal is a term used by AGS to describe a particular proportion set or actually a group of proportion sets for stones. This also gets called ‘triple zero’ because the AGS grading scale assigns a numeric grading scale with zero as the best grade and ‘Ideal’ requires a zero score in all three areas of light performance, polish and symmetry. This system was such a hit that lots of other people started using their own definitions and those definitions are all over the map. ‘Ideal’ means nothing without the accompanying definition and standard.
‘Super Ideal’, presumably means a definition that’s more narrow than ‘ideal’. This leads to the same definitional problem as the above but it seems to have originated from people who have observed that all AGS-0-Ideal cut diamonds don’t look the same and they added their own selection process to differentiate regular-ideal from super-ideal, however it is that they choose to define that. Presumably it’s better to be super. Out of context it means nothing and, of course, not everyone will agree on what constitutes super.
Triple x or XXX means a stone graded by GIA as excellent in cut, polish and symmetry. Since Excellent cut allows for ‘Very Good’ in either polish or symmetry grades this is slightly more specific than just the ‘Excellent’ cut grade. Triple X sounds sort of like triple zero and so it gets used quite a bit by people who want to describe their stone as being really top shelf. It’s fantastically rare to have a stone graded by both labs for no better reason than the cost of lab fees so a super-ideal triple Ex. As described in the headline is a bit hard to arrange although I suppose you could do it if you want.
Hearts and arrows is a pattern in the symmetry sometimes seen when a stone viewed through a special viewer that lots of jewelers have. It’s not particularly well defined either and lots of stones show a pattern that looks at least a bit like H&A so lots of dealers are happy to point this out as evidence of a precision cut stone. This includes some of the above mentioned ideal, super ideal and XXX stones although each of those categories can exist without H&A and a stone can be called H&A without being eligible for any of those.
There has been *LOTS* of discussion on the forum about all 3 of these concepts and how they might relate to one another both as general concepts and with regard to a particular stone. Use the search tool for some of the various words and you can keep yourself up reading all night.
And that''s the truth. bwwth.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I hereby declare myself the King of diamonds and only I can bestow the best term in the world for the best of the best....
They shall for now and ever more be called kicken!
I used to be one of the ones that used the term super-ideal oh maybe 20 times a day but I grew up a little and think it is silly now.
They shall for now and ever more be called kicken!
I used to be one of the ones that used the term super-ideal oh maybe 20 times a day but I grew up a little and think it is silly now.
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Ellen - you make me smile!! I remember you telling me one day in a post that I wil be amazed at how my ring will sparkle in the car, and the first sunny day with my new ACA, I nearly ran off the road. I actually said out loud - WOW Ellen was so right. And now everyday I drive to work and see those sparkles, I can''t help but think of you!Date: 9/5/2008 11:18:55 AM
Author: Ellen
Yep. They don''t know why it''s different, but they know it is.Date: 9/5/2008 11:07:12 AM
Author: arjunajane
I have my original ering (''classic'' RB cuts), and my upgraded ring with AGS000 H&A - absolutely I can see a difference, very much so.
My first ring always has impressed me and sparkles like you would expect, however I feel receiving an ideal H&A really showed me ''the next level'' of diamond cut performance.
Diva Diamond, you are absolutely correct that your ''average person'' IRL does not know or care about diamond grading and super-ideal cuts etc etc. But what they do know, is that when they see those stones, they sparkle and fire and everything else in a very noticeable way, and set themselves apart from your ''average'' diamond.
Just tonight I was at dinner, and everybody at the table was amazed at the way my ring shone - do they know or care why? Nope! But they do notice the performance.
I love the story about how we went to a new piano bar that had a black ceiling and hundreds of teeny spotlights. My diamond literally shimmered (quite noticeably) little rainbows all over. When I first saw it, I busted out laughing, I couldn''t help it. Everyone was in awe, the waitress even commented on it.
Sadly, the place closed, and I''ve yet to capture THAT particular performance again.
I was in a lab meeting the other day, going over some scientific results that I was having trouble understanding, and even more trouble staying awake cause the warm sun was shining on me. And I become aware that my work collegues are trying to wipe the spots of an x-ray film and the paperwork strewn over the desk we are trying to go over, and I look down to notice that I have been absently fiddling with my ring and it is sending a rainbow of sparkles all over the desk and dancing light all over our results. My work collegues are looking at me wierdly, like, can you stop doing that thing, and here I am totally oblivious to it. I had to laugh out loud, it was pretty funny. Well, to me anyway
jasontb
Shiny_Rock
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Ellen
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 9/5/2008 7:51:26 PM
Author: honey22
Ellen - you make me smile!! I remember you telling me one day in a post that I wil be amazed at how my ring will sparkle in the car, and the first sunny day with my new ACA, I nearly ran off the road. I actually said out loud - WOW Ellen was so right. And now everyday I drive to work and see those sparkles, I can''t help but think of you!Date: 9/5/2008 11:18:55 AM
Author: Ellen
Yep. They don''t know why it''s different, but they know it is.
I love the story about how we went to a new piano bar that had a black ceiling and hundreds of teeny spotlights. My diamond literally shimmered (quite noticeably) little rainbows all over. When I first saw it, I busted out laughing, I couldn''t help it. Everyone was in awe, the waitress even commented on it.
Sadly, the place closed, and I''ve yet to capture THAT particular performance again.
I was in a lab meeting the other day, going over some scientific results that I was having trouble understanding, and even more trouble staying awake cause the warm sun was shining on me. And I become aware that my work collegues are trying to wipe the spots of an x-ray film and the paperwork strewn over the desk we are trying to go over, and I look down to notice that I have been absently fiddling with my ring and it is sending a rainbow of sparkles all over the desk and dancing light all over our results. My work collegues are looking at me wierdly, like, can you stop doing that thing, and here I am totally oblivious to it. I had to laugh out loud, it was pretty funny. Well, to me anywayI think they were pretty impressed anyway
strm, that wasn''t a very nice thing to say. Instead of insulting anyone who has/will/does use that term, for the very specific type of stone you know we all mean, why don''t you suggest something more "mature" to call it.
Ellen
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Good lord, shades of Edith AnnDate: 9/5/2008 5:34:44 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Anthony,
Ideal is a term used by AGS to describe a particular proportion set or actually a group of proportion sets for stones. This also gets called ‘triple zero’ because the AGS grading scale assigns a numeric grading scale with zero as the best grade and ‘Ideal’ requires a zero score in all three areas of light performance, polish and symmetry. This system was such a hit that lots of other people started using their own definitions and those definitions are all over the map. ‘Ideal’ means nothing without the accompanying definition and standard.
‘Super Ideal’, presumably means a definition that’s more narrow than ‘ideal’. This leads to the same definitional problem as the above but it seems to have originated from people who have observed that all AGS-0-Ideal cut diamonds don’t look the same and they added their own selection process to differentiate regular-ideal from super-ideal, however it is that they choose to define that. Presumably it’s better to be super. Out of context it means nothing and, of course, not everyone will agree on what constitutes super.
Triple x or XXX means a stone graded by GIA as excellent in cut, polish and symmetry. Since Excellent cut allows for ‘Very Good’ in either polish or symmetry grades this is slightly more specific than just the ‘Excellent’ cut grade. Triple X sounds sort of like triple zero and so it gets used quite a bit by people who want to describe their stone as being really top shelf. It’s fantastically rare to have a stone graded by both labs for no better reason than the cost of lab fees so a super-ideal triple Ex. As described in the headline is a bit hard to arrange although I suppose you could do it if you want.
Hearts and arrows is a pattern in the symmetry sometimes seen when a stone viewed through a special viewer that lots of jewelers have. It’s not particularly well defined either and lots of stones show a pattern that looks at least a bit like H&A so lots of dealers are happy to point this out as evidence of a precision cut stone. This includes some of the above mentioned ideal, super ideal and XXX stones although each of those categories can exist without H&A and a stone can be called H&A without being eligible for any of those.
There has been *LOTS* of discussion on the forum about all 3 of these concepts and how they might relate to one another both as general concepts and with regard to a particular stone. Use the search tool for some of the various words and you can keep yourself up reading all night.
And that's the truth. bwwth.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver
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