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The tragic attacks in Norway

kenny

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I can't believe it, around 90 dead so far (mostly children) and they are still looking in the water for the bodies of kids that may have sunk.
All from one gunman?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14262956

snip

Norwegians are mourning the victims of a massacre at an island youth camp and a bombing in the capital Oslo.

At least 85 people died when a gunman opened fire at the Utoeya camp on Friday, hours after a blast in the government quarter killed seven.
 

TristanC

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Such a senseless waste. My heart goes out to the victims families. I cannot imagine the anguish...
 

mayerling

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Yeah, it's been all over the news since yesterday. Such loss of life...

It's so weird as well. I've always thought of Norway as a quiet, tranquil place.
 

Arkteia

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How many crazy people are there in this world? Scary...
 

somethingshiny

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Oh my. I hadn't seen an update with the number of victims. How awful. Evil is everywhere.
 

jstarfireb

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What a senseless loss of innocent life...
 

centralsquare

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This is truly sad Scary to think how easily he was able to kill so many innocent people. What a horrific experience for the survivors.
 

Octavia

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This is absolutely awful. I'm going to Oslo in two weeks and was so shocked to see what happened. Evil people are everywhere, unfortunately.
 

yennyfire

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How tragic and senseless. Those poor families. My heart aches for the families.
 

AGBF

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Thanks for starting the thread, kenny. I didn't have the hear to do so. Here is an excerpt fro an article in, "The New York Times" which gives some more information about the alleged perpetrator and his motive.

Christian Extremist Charged in NorwayBy STEVEN ERLANGER and SCOTT SHANE
OSLO, Norway — The Norwegian man charged Saturday with a pair of attacks in Oslo that killed at least 92 people left behind a detailed manifesto outlining his preparations and calling for a Christian civil war to defend Europe against the threat of Muslim domination, according to Norwegian and American officials familiar with the investigation.

As stunned Norwegians grappled with the deadliest attack in the country since World War II, a portrait began to emerge of the suspect, Anders Behring Breivik, 32. The police identified him as a right-wing fundamentalist Christian, while acquaintances described him as a gun-loving Norwegian obsessed with what he saw as the threats of multiculturalism and Muslim immigration.

“We are not sure whether he was alone or had help,” a police official, Roger Andresen, said at a televised news conference. “What we know is that he is right wing and a Christian fundamentalist.”

In the 1,500-page manifesto, posted on the Web hours before the attacks, Mr. Breivik recorded a day-by-day diary of months of planning for the attacks, and claimed to be part of a small group that intend to “seize political and military control of Western European countries and implement a cultural conservative political agenda.”

He predicted a conflagration that would kill or injure more than a million “Marxists/multiculturalists,” but added: “The time for dialogue is over. We gave peace a chance. The time for armed resistance has come.”

The manifesto was signed Andrew Berwick, an Anglicized version of his name. A former American government official briefed on the case said investigators believed the manifesto was Mr. Breivik’s work.

The manifesto, entitled “2083: A European Declaration of Independence,” claims to explain “what your government, the academia and the media are hiding from you” and warns against “appeasement and anti-European thinking.”

Mr. Breivik was also believed to have posted a video on Friday, calling for Christian conservatives in Europe to rise up violently as a modern-day version of the Crusades-era Knights Templar to save Europe from Islamic totalitarianism. In its closing moments, the video depicts Mr. Breivik in military uniform, holding assault weapons.

You Tube removed the video on Saturday.

Rarely has a plotter left so detailed an account of his activities. The document describes in detail his purchase of chemicals, his sometimes ham-handed experiments making explosives and his first successful test detonation of a bomb in a remote location on June 13.

He intersperses the account of bomb-making with details of his television-watching, including the Eurovision music contest and the American police drama “The Shield.”

The manifesto ends with a chilling signoff: “I believe this will be my last entry. It is now Fri July 22nd, 12.51.”

Indeed, the operation appeared to have been extremely well planned.


Deb/AGBF
:read:
 

platinumrock

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It's interesting how he chose a closed-off location and targeted kids between 14-19 years old. Then he impersonated a police officer so he can get their attention without questions. He knew exactly what he was doing.

They are saying that this was a political statement but why did he have to murder 90+ innocent kids?

It's also interesting that he didn't kill himself like other gunmen on a spree. Whatever reason he has for doing what he did, it better be a good one.

I can't even imagine what the families of the victims are going through, and what the survivors saw. :blackeye:
 

VRBeauty

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Apparently Norway does not have the death penalty. One news report said the longest sentence he can get is 26 years, and that most criminals serve only half of their total sentence. Hopefully that will not be the case here.
 

movie zombie

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they have something that kicks in after the 21 years: Look up forvaring or the Baneheia case. this guy will never leave prison.
 

Pandora II

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platinumrock|1311480892|2975632 said:
It's interesting how he chose a closed-off location and targeted kids between 14-19 years old. Then he impersonated a police officer so he can get their attention without questions. He knew exactly what he was doing.

They are saying that this was a political statement but why did he have to murder 90+ innocent kids?

It's also interesting that he didn't kill himself like other gunmen on a spree. Whatever reason he has for doing what he did, it better be a good one.

I can't even imagine what the families of the victims are going through, and what the survivors saw. :blackeye:
He chose the summer-camp of the youth-wing of the Labour political party which is in power in Norway. The likelihood is that many of those killed were family members of many in the Norwegian government and so the impact will be higher-profile in the news than it otherwise might have been. These kids were also the politicians and thinkers of Norway's future.

So very sad. My husband spent most of his teenage years at these political summer camps all over Europe and as political activists in the UK, it is frightening to see just how easy it would be for someone to infiltrate these kind of well-publicised events. In the UK there is a lot of security protection because of our being a high-risk target but countries like Norway have never encountered acts of terrorism since WWII.

So very sad for the families and for Norway's loss.
 

kenny

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Pandora|1311533741|2975846 said:
He chose the summer-camp of the youth-wing of the Labour political party which is in power in Norway. The likelihood is that many of those killed were family members of many in the Norwegian government and so the impact will be higher-profile in the news than it otherwise might have been. These kids were also the politicians and thinkers of Norway's future.
Yes, it is astonishing how effectively this one person has altered the future political landscape and the balance of power for a generation of Norway.
He wiped out a lot of his opponent's political DNA (children of left politicians) in a few hours.

Sick and evil as it was, it was very effective, brilliant even. (Calm down; I am not praising him!)
Besides elimating future politicians of that party he has instilled fear of retaliation into the surviving politicians.
Having your children murdered HAS to affect you, especially if you have other children you'd like to see survive.

This will move Norway to the right, towards xenophobia and intolerance of diversity.
 

iheartscience

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kenny|1311535750|2975860 said:
Pandora|1311533741|2975846 said:
He chose the summer-camp of the youth-wing of the Labour political party which is in power in Norway. The likelihood is that many of those killed were family members of many in the Norwegian government and so the impact will be higher-profile in the news than it otherwise might have been. These kids were also the politicians and thinkers of Norway's future.
Yes, it is astonishing how effectively this one person has altered the future political landscape and the balance of power for a generation of Norway.
He wiped out a lot of his opponent's political DNA (children of left politicians) in a few hours.

Sick and evil as it was, it was very effective, brilliant even. (Calm down; I am not praising him!)
Besides elimating future politicians of that party he has instilled fear of retaliation into the surviving politicians.
Having your children murdered HAS to affect you, especially if you have other children you'd like to see survive.

This will move Norway to the right, towards xenophobia and intolerance of diversity.
What are you basing this comment on? I could see this being true if the perpetrator wasn't Norwegian by birth, but he was.
 

kenny

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thing2of2|1311540642|2975905 said:
kenny|1311535750|2975860 said:
Pandora|1311533741|2975846 said:
He chose the summer-camp of the youth-wing of the Labour political party which is in power in Norway. The likelihood is that many of those killed were family members of many in the Norwegian government and so the impact will be higher-profile in the news than it otherwise might have been. These kids were also the politicians and thinkers of Norway's future.
Yes, it is astonishing how effectively this one person has altered the future political landscape and the balance of power for a generation of Norway.
He wiped out a lot of his opponent's political DNA (children of left politicians) in a few hours.

Sick and evil as it was, it was very effective, brilliant even. (Calm down; I am not praising him!)
Besides elimating future politicians of that party he has instilled fear of retaliation into the surviving politicians.
Having your children murdered HAS to affect you, especially if you have other children you'd like to see survive.

This will move Norway to the right, towards xenophobia and intolerance of diversity.
What are you basing this comment on? I could see this being true if the perpetrator wasn't Norwegian by birth, but he was.
Google around.
Find his writings.
It took me 20 seconds to locate his 1500 pg manifesto and a list of postings of his.

He was all about hatred of Muslims and immigrants into Norway.
He was Christian, and far far right and wanted his country turn away from multiculturalism.

He is all about what I fight against, intolerance of diversity.
 

kenny

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thing2of2|1311540642|2975905 said:
kenny|1311535750|2975860 said:
Pandora|1311533741|2975846 said:
He chose the summer-camp of the youth-wing of the Labour political party which is in power in Norway. The likelihood is that many of those killed were family members of many in the Norwegian government and so the impact will be higher-profile in the news than it otherwise might have been. These kids were also the politicians and thinkers of Norway's future.
Yes, it is astonishing how effectively this one person has altered the future political landscape and the balance of power for a generation of Norway.
He wiped out a lot of his opponent's political DNA (children of left politicians) in a few hours.

Sick and evil as it was, it was very effective, brilliant even. (Calm down; I am not praising him!)
Besides elimating future politicians of that party he has instilled fear of retaliation into the surviving politicians.
Having your children murdered HAS to affect you, especially if you have other children you'd like to see survive.

This will move Norway to the right, towards xenophobia and intolerance of diversity.
What are you basing this comment on? I could see this being true if the perpetrator wasn't Norwegian by birth, but he was.
Start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document.no
 

platinumrock

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Pandora|1311533741|2975846 said:
platinumrock|1311480892|2975632 said:
It's interesting how he chose a closed-off location and targeted kids between 14-19 years old. Then he impersonated a police officer so he can get their attention without questions. He knew exactly what he was doing.

They are saying that this was a political statement but why did he have to murder 90+ innocent kids?

It's also interesting that he didn't kill himself like other gunmen on a spree. Whatever reason he has for doing what he did, it better be a good one.

I can't even imagine what the families of the victims are going through, and what the survivors saw. :blackeye:
He chose the summer-camp of the youth-wing of the Labour political party which is in power in Norway. The likelihood is that many of those killed were family members of many in the Norwegian government and so the impact will be higher-profile in the news than it otherwise might have been. These kids were also the politicians and thinkers of Norway's future.

So very sad. My husband spent most of his teenage years at these political summer camps all over Europe and as political activists in the UK, it is frightening to see just how easy it would be for someone to infiltrate these kind of well-publicised events. In the UK there is a lot of security protection because of our being a high-risk target but countries like Norway have never encountered acts of terrorism since WWII.

So very sad for the families and for Norway's loss.
Oh wow, I had no idea. :(sad Thanks for clarifiying Pandora, because I've always wondered why he went after kids, and why he killed so many. It's one thing to make a politcal statement, but to wipe out the children of government officials and future leaders of the country??? I am at a loss for words.

I was also wondering why he had access to this exclusive event. Then again, he figured it out by dressing up as a cop. I wonder how many adults and parents were there, and where they were while the carnage was happening? Norway is such a peaceful country, and like you said, something like this has never happened before. This country will never be the same, the same way the U.S. has never been the same since 9/11.

Is this Norway's 7/11?
 

platinumrock

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kenny|1311535750|2975860 said:
Pandora|1311533741|2975846 said:
He chose the summer-camp of the youth-wing of the Labour political party which is in power in Norway. The likelihood is that many of those killed were family members of many in the Norwegian government and so the impact will be higher-profile in the news than it otherwise might have been. These kids were also the politicians and thinkers of Norway's future.
Yes, it is astonishing how effectively this one person has altered the future political landscape and the balance of power for a generation of Norway.
He wiped out a lot of his opponent's political DNA (children of left politicians) in a few hours.
Sick and evil as it was, it was very effective, brilliant even. (Calm down; I am not praising him!)
Besides elimating future politicians of that party he has instilled fear of retaliation into the surviving politicians.
Having your children murdered HAS to affect you, especially if you have other children you'd like to see survive.

This will move Norway to the right, towards xenophobia and intolerance of diversity.
Yes, I agree. This man had a plan, belief and a vision, and he was as determined as the extremists who successfully hijacked the planes that crashed into the Twin towers and the Pentagon. Though both acts are atrocious, they were brilliantly planned and executed. He believed that one person with a belief is more powerful than 100,000 people with interests. In his case, a belief can be very dangerous. How do you justify killing hundreds of innocent kids? Or 3,000+ people? Or millions of people of a specific race? Even genocide?

I guess it all starts with a "belief".
 

kenny

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In the Casey Anthony thread I wrote that I thought all murders were equally wrong, but I think killing 90 children of your political opponents is pretty bad.
It does have that chilling genocide flavor to it.

You people are not like me, so . . . POW!
 

iheartscience

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kenny|1311542050|2975921 said:
thing2of2|1311540642|2975905 said:
kenny|1311535750|2975860 said:
Pandora|1311533741|2975846 said:
He chose the summer-camp of the youth-wing of the Labour political party which is in power in Norway. The likelihood is that many of those killed were family members of many in the Norwegian government and so the impact will be higher-profile in the news than it otherwise might have been. These kids were also the politicians and thinkers of Norway's future.
Yes, it is astonishing how effectively this one person has altered the future political landscape and the balance of power for a generation of Norway.
He wiped out a lot of his opponent's political DNA (children of left politicians) in a few hours.

Sick and evil as it was, it was very effective, brilliant even. (Calm down; I am not praising him!)
Besides elimating future politicians of that party he has instilled fear of retaliation into the surviving politicians.
Having your children murdered HAS to affect you, especially if you have other children you'd like to see survive.

This will move Norway to the right, towards xenophobia and intolerance of diversity.
What are you basing this comment on? I could see this being true if the perpetrator wasn't Norwegian by birth, but he was.
Google around.
Find his writings.
It took me 20 seconds to locate his 1500 pg manifesto and a list of postings of his.

He was all about hatred of Muslims and immigrants into Norway.
He was Christian, and far far right and wanted his country turn away from multiculturalism.

He is all about what I fight against, intolerance of diversity.
I'm aware of *his* beliefs as well as his manifesto. What I'm not getting is why you think an attack by an extremist will make Norway more like what the extremist wanted it to be like.
 

kenny

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thing2of2|1311566056|2976129 said:
kenny|1311542050|2975921 said:
thing2of2|1311540642|2975905 said:
kenny|1311535750|2975860 said:
Pandora|1311533741|2975846 said:
He chose the summer-camp of the youth-wing of the Labour political party which is in power in Norway. The likelihood is that many of those killed were family members of many in the Norwegian government and so the impact will be higher-profile in the news than it otherwise might have been. These kids were also the politicians and thinkers of Norway's future.
Yes, it is astonishing how effectively this one person has altered the future political landscape and the balance of power for a generation of Norway.
He wiped out a lot of his opponent's political DNA (children of left politicians) in a few hours.

Sick and evil as it was, it was very effective, brilliant even. (Calm down; I am not praising him!)
Besides elimating future politicians of that party he has instilled fear of retaliation into the surviving politicians.
Having your children murdered HAS to affect you, especially if you have other children you'd like to see survive.

This will move Norway to the right, towards xenophobia and intolerance of diversity.
What are you basing this comment on? I could see this being true if the perpetrator wasn't Norwegian by birth, but he was.
Google around.
Find his writings.
It took me 20 seconds to locate his 1500 pg manifesto and a list of postings of his.

He was all about hatred of Muslims and immigrants into Norway.
He was Christian, and far far right and wanted his country turn away from multiculturalism.

He is all about what I fight against, intolerance of diversity.
I'm aware of *his* beliefs as well as his manifesto. What I'm not getting is why you think an attack by an extremist will make Norway more like what the extremist wanted it to be like.
He's far right and the children he killed were attending a camp for youth of Norway's left political party.
Many of the dead kids were likely tomorrow's left politicians.
Plus the dead kids parents are on the political left.
They are now living with the fear and terror of what the far right is capable of and may do in the future if they don't join the right in opposing immigration and assimilation of muslims into Norway.

Go read some of this madman's writings.
This guys writings remind me of what Hitler did in the early 1930s, stirring up hatred and blaming the country's economic and social problems on the Jews - only this time it is another religion.
Sickening!
 

Imdanny

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I should say here, and Kenny, you know what I'm saying, that at some forums conservatives have made these same paranoid arguments about the "scary Muslims want to take over the world and are coming to invade our white country". They have said about terrorists in terms of security that terrorists aren't going to be "white people" and to stop being "PC". And here they are shown to be not only completely wrong (a conservative online site said the perpetrator was "not a Lutheran"- oops) but they have become the thing the thing they claim to want to be protecting us against.

I read that the maximum sentence this man can get is twenty something years- far from life. I'm concerned that this evil man will let go one day but he will never not be a threat to society.

I think it is too early to tell how Norway will react. I just don't have enough information about Norway to know how they will react.

As to so many being killed, I read that it went on for two hours. Now I'm not saying that's a fact. I'm just saying that's what I read. In any case, they were on a small island. There was nowhere to run. You never see this kind of figure in this kind of incident, but I think the fact that they were on an island is the reason for it.

It's almost too horrifying to believe. :(
 

iheartscience

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kenny|1311566995|2976135 said:
thing2of2|1311566056|2976129 said:
kenny|1311542050|2975921 said:
thing2of2|1311540642|2975905 said:
kenny|1311535750|2975860 said:
Pandora|1311533741|2975846 said:
He chose the summer-camp of the youth-wing of the Labour political party which is in power in Norway. The likelihood is that many of those killed were family members of many in the Norwegian government and so the impact will be higher-profile in the news than it otherwise might have been. These kids were also the politicians and thinkers of Norway's future.
Yes, it is astonishing how effectively this one person has altered the future political landscape and the balance of power for a generation of Norway.
He wiped out a lot of his opponent's political DNA (children of left politicians) in a few hours.

Sick and evil as it was, it was very effective, brilliant even. (Calm down; I am not praising him!)
Besides elimating future politicians of that party he has instilled fear of retaliation into the surviving politicians.
Having your children murdered HAS to affect you, especially if you have other children you'd like to see survive.

This will move Norway to the right, towards xenophobia and intolerance of diversity.
What are you basing this comment on? I could see this being true if the perpetrator wasn't Norwegian by birth, but he was.
Google around.
Find his writings.
It took me 20 seconds to locate his 1500 pg manifesto and a list of postings of his.

He was all about hatred of Muslims and immigrants into Norway.
He was Christian, and far far right and wanted his country turn away from multiculturalism.

He is all about what I fight against, intolerance of diversity.
I'm aware of *his* beliefs as well as his manifesto. What I'm not getting is why you think an attack by an extremist will make Norway more like what the extremist wanted it to be like.
He's far right and the children he killed were attending a camp for youth of Norway's left political party.
Many of the dead kids were likely tomorrow's left politicians.
Plus the dead kids parents are on the political left.
They are now living with the fear and terror of what the far right is capable of and may do in the future if they don't join the right in opposing immigration and assimilation of muslims into Norway.

Go read some of this madman's writings.
This guys writings remind me of what Hitler did in the early 1930s, stirring up hatred and blaming the country's economic and social problems on the Jews - only this time it is another religion.
Sickening!
I agree his ideas are sickening, but it's a stretch to assume that an attack by an extremist will make the country more extremist. 9/11 didn't change the U.S. into a country that is less offensive to Muslim extremists.
 

kenny

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SNIP

The gunman had said his operation was not aimed at killing as many people as possible but that he wanted to create the greatest loss possible to Norway's governing Labour Party, which he accused of failing the country on immigration.

The bomb in Oslo targeted buildings connected to the Labour Party government, and the youth camp on Utoeya island was also run by the party.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14280210

End Snip

So instead of killing the group that he hates, he kills members of the group (and their kids) who make the political decisions that will not perpetuate his hate.
Those not killed are now terrorized and fearful as they perform their jobs.
I believe what has happened will alter how they perform their jobs.
The article above quote's Norway's Prime Minister saying the attacks will change the country.
To me possibly altering policy of a democracy is more sinister and insidious than if he had just gunned down 90 Muslims.

I think this tragedy should serve as a wake up call.
Intolerance for diversity is dangerous, and IMHO the seed of it is in every one of us.
My group is good; they are bad.
I think it's in our DNA from back when we competed for limited food and resources.
 

TooPatient

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Such a tragedy :nono:

There is NO excuse for murdering people --- ever.

I hope that the country holds on to rationality as they grieve and no acts of violence or intollerence are directed towards anyone. This man was an extremist.
 

Amber St. Clare

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The whole thing is just unutterably sad and discouraging.
 
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