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The ol'''' 14k/18k/19k White Gold vs. Platinum debate

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phoenix5807

Rough_Rock
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Greetings, all. I am a newbie who''s been reading the numerous threads on this subject. Starting about a year ago, my girlfriend made it clear that while she is by no means rushing me to propose, when I do, she would very much like this ring: http://www.canadian-diamonds-wholesale.com/system/ring.asp?id=1012. Allow me to clarify: she does not want any 3-stone lucerne, or just a ring that looks like this one. She wants THIS RING. Well, I''ll be getting a nice tax refund and am ready to make my purchase in the next couple months. I must choose, however, between 14k, 18k, and 19k white gold, and platinum. (She abhors yellow gold.) Aside from the regular pros and cons, I must keep in mind that she corrodes jewelry like a toxic wasteland. Even nickel free earrings become fuzzy and discolored after a few days.

So, I''m basically looking for help in making my decision.

Here''s what I think I know so far. Correct me if I am wrong.
1. White gold in general are alloyed with other metals which make them white. The different mixtures have varying degrees of nickel, ranging from none to quite a lot. Palladium is an additive which makes it super-white, but it also makes it softer and easier to scratch.
2. 14k is generally harder and whiter than 18k since it has less gold in it.
3. Most white gold is rhodium plated. This plating wears off in time, but it doesn''t make a difference in my case because she doesn''t do well w/ rhodium either, and these rings aren''t plated.
4. White gold tends to yellow over time.
5. 19k white gold is a proprietary product manufactured in Canada. It contains nickel. It is super-white, resists scratching, does not yellow, walks the dog, takes out the trash, and never leaves the toilet seat up.
6. Platinum is more expensive, and heavier. It is more brittle, but scratches easier than WG. The shiny surface will eventually develop a uniquie "patina" (i.e. get covered with a bunch of tiny scratches). It is a shiny white at first, but eventually turns to a duller gunmetal gray. While it is much harder to polish than WG, you can take it to the jeweler once a year to have it refinished. It is usually considered safe for people with allergies, although it is alloyed with various other metals, just like WG. Platinum also won''t get eaten up by chlorine.

Now, for my questions:
1. Since 19k white gold has nickel, should I assume it''s no good for people with allergies?
2. What can you tell me about clear-coating or laminating a ring?
3. I''m leaning towards a nickel-free palladium 14k white gold, if it is available. What do you think?
4. I''m quite nervous that Canadian Diamond Wholesale only seems to warranty its product for 15 days after the shipment date. Does anyone know anything about this company?
5. What are the chances of getting another jeweler to duplicate this design to any degree of perfection? Would it cost me an arm and a leg?
6. If I don''t end up buying from this company, what can you tell me about having it made with pure palladium?
7. My girlfriend doesn''t like diamonds. Praise God! She likes the color of simulated emeralds, but they scratch too easily, so I was going to get a green simulated sapphire with white sapphire sidestones. Comments?

Thanks so much for your help. Sorry about the long post.
 
I may be mistaken, but I am not under the impression that palladium "makes white gold softer and easier to scratch". I was shown a solid palladium wedding band the other day and it was very pretty.

That setting is not uncommon. I have seen ones that are very similar on various diamond sites. But you might have to have it custom made to get solid palladium.

I have nothing against colored stones if that is what she prefers, however, I''d strongly recommend real gemstones rather than simulated for an engagement ring. It would be really beautiful with a blue sapphire in the middle and white sapphire side stones!
 
If you go into the colored gems forum, you can learn about other green gemstones that would work, too.
 
Sorry everyone - I just realized that this belongs in Jewelry Pieces instead of Rocky Talk.

Anyway, I''m stuck with green (her choice). Would a natural sapphire be less clear than a simulated one? I know my gf can''t stand the cloudiness of natural emeralds.

I did some more research and found that a decent handful of people are even allergic to palladium, or gold itself. Ugh - I can''t seem to win!
8.gif

Have you ever heard of someone having a reaction to platinum? Is it ever alloyed with nickel? At this rate, I''m going to have to propose with a plastic ring.

20.gif

 
No, most gemstones can be purchased beautiful and clear. She has probably been seeing poor quality emeralds if they were cloudy. You need to post over on Colored Gemstones, but here is a link to get you started looking at various green gemstones:

http://www.gemstone.org/gem-by-gem/english/tsavorite.html
 
I''m not sure how tight your budget is, but if you want an emerald green as opposed to a pale or bluish-green, I''d look into a nice tsavorite or, gulp, a demantoid. As to your other questions:

1) I don''t think enough ppl have experience with 19K yet. I''ve heard of people claiming that their nickel allergies weren''t triggered by 19K but I''m skeptical that would always be the case.

3) I don''t know if they make a 14K palladium, but for an e-ring I''d really prefer 18K. It''s just more substantial. I know it''s a prejudice, but I think of 14k for cheaper jewelry.

5) That type of design is not uncommon, so I don''t see why you wouldn''t be able to find something similar elsewhere.


6) Pure palladium is too soft for jewelry. Might as well just get platinum.

 
Hmm...so many questions.
For starters, I have a fair amount of experience with 19 K from Imperial Smelting in Canada.
I have never had a case of nickel dermatitis with any of my client''s rings. Very non-reactive, with the nickel content being under 20%

The mount that she likes is very common. So, is she very common? Perhaps she hasn''t seen enough mounts.

Sure, anyone can make it. Not in pure palladium, though. Pure palladium is too soft. 14 K or 18 kpalladium whites are also pretty soft if palladium is the only alloy used.

Platinum, if the smith is competent, will be your first choice. 19 k is a great alternative, and much harder than platinum.

You should stick with corundum, (other stones can be compromised by daily wear) either genuine or synthetic, but the white sapphires will look very cloudy soon after being worn, just because they don''t refract the way that diamonds do. You see every speck of dust, or skin-oil smear.
If she must have 3 stones, choose the colous carefully. You don''rt want the ring to look like something other than an engagement ring.

Not sure about her issue with diamonds, but is her repulsion based on their appearance, or are there political reasons?
Nothing will give you longer, more trouble-free service than diamonds, even tiny ones.
 
I''m not sure what your budget is, but if you can afford it I''d go with Platinum. Just less worries about her corroding the ring since she''ll be wearing it pretty much 24/7. You can find some nice natural green sapphires, but it might be challenging to locate medium-sized round ones. (I happen to really like bluish-green sapphires, but I think that may be from ocean deprivation out here in the desert.)
28.gif


If you''re looking at synthetics, how about moissanite? It''s harder than sapphires, shiny, and very sparkly but not in that weird CZ way. It also comes in a nice green color that would probably cost you under $200 for a 5mm gem. Note: I do not have extensive experience with Moissanite, I just think it''s worth considering if you''re already looking at man-made gems.

I''ve seen a really attractive version of that ring on the eye-candy thread on the SMTR forum.
30.gif
I think it''s my favorite ring I''ve seen on PS yet. It was a custom job from whiteflash.com, and this is the original link. I hope I''m not violating any protocal by adding that pic to my post? You''d obviously have to talk to the owner of the ring.
TheRing85248.jpg
 
Date: 1/19/2006 1:55:30 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
No, most gemstones can be purchased beautiful and clear. She has probably been seeing poor quality emeralds if they were cloudy. You need to post over on Colored Gemstones, but here is a link to get you started looking at various green gemstones:

http://www.gemstone.org/gem-by-gem/english/tsavorite.html
We went to Zales, Kay, and JB Robinson, and the clarity of a natural emerald never approached that of a sim. My better half doesn''t have the preconceived notions that I do/did about an engagement ring: it doesn''t have to be natural, expensive, rare, etc. Throw the four C''s out the window. She only cares about two P''s: pretty and practical.

The tsavorite garnet is interesting, but why would I want it instead of a sapphire if the sapphire is harder?
 
Date: 1/19/2006 2:04:10 PM
Author: Hest88

I''m not sure how tight your budget is, but if you want an emerald green as opposed to a pale or bluish-green, I''d look into a nice tsavorite or, gulp, a demantoid. As to your other questions:

1) I don''t think enough ppl have experience with 19K yet. I''ve heard of people claiming that their nickel allergies weren''t triggered by 19K but I''m skeptical that would always be the case.

3) I don''t know if they make a 14K palladium, but for an e-ring I''d really prefer 18K. It''s just more substantial. I know it''s a prejudice, but I think of 14k for cheaper jewelry.

5) That type of design is not uncommon, so I don''t see why you wouldn''t be able to find something similar elsewhere.



6) Pure palladium is too soft for jewelry. Might as well just get platinum.


Got any links for the gulp or demantoid? Or is the gulp a type of demantoid? (Do I need to take this part of the thread over to Colored Gemstones? Please don''t shoot the newbie.)
1) I have heard the same, and am equally skeptical.
3) I think she''d actually be happy with silver.
20.gif
She''s pragmatic to a fault, but I guess I can see her point: she''d just rather spend the money on the wedding, honeymoon, home, etc. I don''t mind taking that attitude about the stones, which can be replaced later on, but I''d like her to keep the same ring.
5) Links, anyone?
6) Not according to diamondseeker2006, or this article: http://www.hooverandstrong.com/articles/?id=84
 
Date: 1/19/2006 3:06:24 PM
Author: TheDoctor
Hmm...so many questions.
For starters, I have a fair amount of experience with 19 K from Imperial Smelting in Canada.
I have never had a case of nickel dermatitis with any of my client''s rings. Very non-reactive, with the nickel content being under 20%

The mount that she likes is very common. So, is she very common? Perhaps she hasn''t seen enough mounts.

Sure, anyone can make it. Not in pure palladium, though. Pure palladium is too soft. 14 K or 18 kpalladium whites are also pretty soft if palladium is the only alloy used.

Platinum, if the smith is competent, will be your first choice. 19 k is a great alternative, and much harder than platinum.

You should stick with corundum, (other stones can be compromised by daily wear) either genuine or synthetic, but the white sapphires will look very cloudy soon after being worn, just because they don''t refract the way that diamonds do. You see every speck of dust, or skin-oil smear.
If she must have 3 stones, choose the colous carefully. You don''rt want the ring to look like something other than an engagement ring.

Not sure about her issue with diamonds, but is her repulsion based on their appearance, or are there political reasons?
Nothing will give you longer, more trouble-free service than diamonds, even tiny ones.
See my earlier post about the pure palladium. It''s being done.

Thanks for the tip on the white sapphire. Is corundum the only alternative you can think of that won''t appear cloudy? What about a supersim, like a Van Graf or an Asha? What can you tell me about a corundum? How hard is it? How brittle, etc.?

You see, that''s just the thing: she DOES want the ring to look like something other than an engagement ring. I''ve had this conversation with her. She simply isn''t locked into other people''s perceptions about what an engagement ring is "supposed" to look like.

I should explain that she doesn''t hate diamonds per se. She simply doesn''t like colorless stones. They don''t do anything for her, unless they are accenting a colored stone. As for chosing another colorless stone over a diamond, the fact that diamond are rare and expensive mean nothing to her, so I''m not going to break the bank when she''d be as happy with a CZ. (I exaggerate slightly with the CZ reference, but you get my point.) I might swap them out for diamonds later, but not now.
 
No, pure palladium isn''t being done. It, like platinum, is being alloyed with 5% other metals. I think it''s a good choice if the price point is correct.

I was looking at green stones:

Here''s a nicer green sapphire from The Natural Sapphire Company, just over 2cts. (They had some deeper green ones, but they were quite large.)
U120_1_TH


Here''s a tsavorite from Pala Gems. The brightness is a bit deceiving, but nice back-lit tsavorites really can look like this:
5260.jpg


And here''s a fine Russian demanoid from Pala, which is also the green of one''s finest emerald dreams, but which also shines more brightly than a diamond.
5390.jpg
 
Date: 1/19/2006 3:58:13 PM
Author: firebirdgold
I''m not sure what your budget is, but if you can afford it I''d go with Platinum. Just less worries about her corroding the ring since she''ll be wearing it pretty much 24/7. You can find some nice natural green sapphires, but it might be challenging to locate medium-sized round ones. (I happen to really like bluish-green sapphires, but I think that may be from ocean deprivation out here in the desert.)
28.gif


If you''re looking at synthetics, how about moissanite? It''s harder than sapphires, shiny, and very sparkly but not in that weird CZ way. It also comes in a nice green color that would probably cost you under $200 for a 5mm gem. Note: I do not have extensive experience with Moissanite, I just think it''s worth considering if you''re already looking at man-made gems.

I''ve seen a really attractive version of that ring on the eye-candy thread on the SMTR forum.
30.gif
I think it''s my favorite ring I''ve seen on PS yet. It was a custom job from whiteflash.com, and this is the original link. I hope I''m not violating any protocal by adding that pic to my post? You''d obviously have to talk to the owner of the ring.
TheRing85248.jpg
I can afford platinum in that ring I posted, but probably not from your average jeweler. $1,000 is about my cap for the ring itself. I''d go for it, but I''m afraid of that gunmetal gray effect (aka the "soft patina" that jewelers keep raving about).

As for the mois, I wasn''t aware they made a green. What I was aware of was that their whites are green in natural light. I gave them some serious consideration, but the last thing I want is a nice green center stone with green-tinted sims on the sides.

I really like that ring. Keep the photos coming... I might end up bringing a bunch to someone who works with palladium.
 
Phoenix,

That was a great link that you posted about the palladium..very interesting! I have also seen some pure palladium settings on other jeweler''s sites such as Winfield''s, so I know they are available. I''d say that if she has allergies, I''d really consider the palladium. It would really be nice to hear from someone who has one. Although I will tell you, now that I think about it, that two of our children had high school rings made from palladium. At that time, the palladium was less than gold, and they wanted silver color rings. They didn''t wear the rings once they went to college, but I think the rings looked great. I really didn''t know what palladium was at the time, but I was happy that the cost was less. But from the prices I am seeing now, palladium seems to be a little higher than gold.

My understanding is that sapphires and rubies are corundum. That site I gave you earlier has descriptions of most colored gemstones. I would have a stong preference for a sapphire if it was for me, since it is harder than the semi-precious gems. Maybe she wouldn''t mind little side diamonds?
21.gif
That combination would be gorgeous in that setting she likes.

http://www.gemstone.org/gem-by-gem/english/sapphire.html
 
Ok, I meant pure palladium as in 95%...just as we refer to pure platinum meaning at least 95%. I guess everything has a little alloy in it.
 
Hest, I get the idea you are very familiar with the green stones! Those are beautiful!
 
Okay, I''m putting on my practical hat now. If $1K is your budget, and if your GF would rather you spend as little as possible and doesn''t care about origin, then yes, I''d just go with synthetics. The 950 palladium alloy is probably a good way to go if you can find someone to manufacture that setting. If not, palladium white gold. You definitely don''t want to go with silver because of the tarnishing issue.
 
I sincerely would rather have a beautiful metal wedding band than synthetic stones in an engagement ring. But alas, it is not for ME!!
 
Date: 1/19/2006 5:40:25 PM
Author: Hest88
No, pure palladium isn''t being done. It, like platinum, is being alloyed with 5% other metals. I think it''s a good choice if the price point is correct.

I was looking at green stones:

Here''s a nicer green sapphire from The Natural Sapphire Company, just over 2cts. (They had some deeper green ones, but they were quite large.)
U120_1_TH


Here''s a tsavorite from Pala Gems. The brightness is a bit deceiving, but nice back-lit tsavorites really can look like this:
5260.jpg


And here''s a fine Russian demanoid from Pala, which is also the green of one''s finest emerald dreams, but which also shines more brightly than a diamond.
5390.jpg
Okay, you got me. I know it isn''t pure palladium, but I use that term to differentiate from palladium WG.

That natural sapphire is darker than most I''ve seen, but is still demonstrating what I''d call cloudiness. I suppose it isn''t necessarily "cloudy" by a gemologist''s definition, but that''s how I''m describing how it fails to refract light. I just looks dull.

By the way, I just reread your earlier post and realized what a bafoon I made of myself. "Or even a dematoid." Now I get you.

The tsavorite isn''t bad. There is something about it that looks totally different than a simulated emerald, though. Maybe I''m just not used to seeing that color with that cut.

"The green of one''s finest emerald dreams."
1.gif
You''d be a good salesman. But seriously, this one is definitely too light. Also, I know you can''t judge by photos, but it just looks like a lime-colored CZ to me. It looks too glitzy without any depth. (Forgive my very novice review, but that''s the reaction I get.)
 
Date: 1/19/2006 5:52:18 PM
Author: Hest88
Okay, I''m putting on my practical hat now. If $1K is your budget, and if your GF would rather you spend as little as possible and doesn''t care about origin, then yes, I''d just go with synthetics. The 950 palladium alloy is probably a good way to go if you can find someone to manufacture that setting. If not, palladium white gold. You definitely don''t want to go with silver because of the tarnishing issue.
$1k is for the ring. I can go another $500-1000 on the stones. Believe it or not, her silver not only doesn''t react with her, but also never seems to tarnish. But I have to draw the line somewhere. No silver engagement ring.

I''ve heard passing mention on bench jewelers'' sites about laminates and clear coats. What''s the story on that? I''m picturing some wonderful invisible sealant that works so well I could get her loop of scrap metal and she wouldn''t react to it.
 
Since posting previously, I''ve been floating about looking into palladium 950 and it sounds pretty promising. According to the pro-palladium sites it has good color, good price, decent hardness, and it self-polishes so it shouldn''t go all gun metal gray. I wonder what''s wrong with it? I have an e-ring in my nearish future and I think that''s what I''ll, er, suggest to the bf. $1k is probably his mounting budget as well. I think maybe whiteflash works with palladium? Or maybe it was that someone saw a vatche x prong in palladium on wf? Too many posts.... overload..

Oh, and thenaturalsapphirecompany.com has several green sapphires around the 1.5 carat range. There''s a really sparkly one for under $400. I, uh, maybe spend a little too much time on that site.
12.gif
 
Date: 1/19/2006 5:48:01 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Phoenix,

That was a great link that you posted about the palladium..very interesting! I have also seen some pure palladium settings on other jeweler''s sites such as Winfield''s, so I know they are available. I''d say that if she has allergies, I''d really consider the palladium. It would really be nice to hear from someone who has one. Although I will tell you, now that I think about it, that two of our children had high school rings made from palladium. At that time, the palladium was less than gold, and they wanted silver color rings. They didn''t wear the rings once they went to college, but I think the rings looked great. I really didn''t know what palladium was at the time, but I was happy that the cost was less. But from the prices I am seeing now, palladium seems to be a little higher than gold.

My understanding is that sapphires and rubies are corundum. That site I gave you earlier has descriptions of most colored gemstones. I would have a stong preference for a sapphire if it was for me, since it is harder than the semi-precious gems. Maybe she wouldn''t mind little side diamonds?
21.gif
That combination would be gorgeous in that setting she likes.

http://www.gemstone.org/gem-by-gem/english/sapphire.html
Ah, yes. Now I remember learning about corundum. Does anyone know how the durability of the non-moissanite supersims compare with sapphire? What are my options other than Van Graf and Asha (the latter never looked quite right to me).

I''m positive she wouldn''t mind diamond in the least. My problem is that she also wouldn''t mind a couple chips of Austrian crystal, so I have a hard time spending the extra dough on something she won''t appreciate. I suppose I could go with low-grade diamonds, but I don''t want the sidestones to be much smaller than the main stone. While I''m not picturing a boulder in the center, I certainly wouldn''t want something smaller in diameter than, say, a 1/3 carat diamond.
 
Does anyone know how the durability of the non-moissanite supersims compare with sapphire? What are my options other than Van Graf and Asha (the latter never looked quite right to me).
They are very, very soft. I''ve seen them after a few years of wear and they get completely scratched up, even though they look impressively diamond-like in the beginning.

I"m sorry, but I have no idea how well those coatings work. I don''t know anyone who''s gotten it done.
 
Date: 1/19/2006 6:11:52 PM
Author: firebirdgold
Since posting previously, I''ve been floating about looking into palladium 950 and it sounds pretty promising. According to the pro-palladium sites it has good color, good price, decent hardness, and it self-polishes so it shouldn''t go all gun metal gray. I wonder what''s wrong with it? I have an e-ring in my nearish future and I think that''s what I''ll, er, suggest to the bf. $1k is probably his mounting budget as well. I think maybe whiteflash works with palladium? Or maybe it was that someone saw a vatche x prong in palladium on wf? Too many posts.... overload..

Oh, and thenaturalsapphirecompany.com has several green sapphires around the 1.5 carat range. There''s a really sparkly one for under $400. I, uh, maybe spend a little too much time on that site.
12.gif
Hahaha... "What''s wrong with it?" That''s how I feel about 19k white gold.
Paladium is cheap because it''s relatively abundant (i.e. not precious). The price is starting to climb, though, because it''s en vogue and a handful of boneheads have been doing some heavy-duty speculating.

Whoah, that website is intimidating. Do you have links to the individual stones you were mentioning, just so I can get a good idea of how dark green & non-"cloudy" I can get with a natural?
 
Do you have links to the individual stones you were mentioning, just so I can get a good idea of how dark green & non-"cloudy" I can get with a natural?
Go to the "Search" function and choose "Unique" and then "Green." There are only 3 short pages so you can easily scan through the choices.
 
Date: 1/19/2006 6:11:52 PM
Author: firebirdgold
Since posting previously, I''ve been floating about looking into palladium 950 and it sounds pretty promising. According to the pro-palladium sites it has good color, good price, decent hardness, and it self-polishes so it shouldn''t go all gun metal gray. I wonder what''s wrong with it? I have an e-ring in my nearish future and I think that''s what I''ll, er, suggest to the bf. $1k is probably his mounting budget as well. I think maybe whiteflash works with palladium? Or maybe it was that someone saw a vatche x prong in palladium on wf? Too many posts.... overload..

Oh, and thenaturalsapphirecompany.com has several green sapphires around the 1.5 carat range. There''s a really sparkly one for under $400. I, uh, maybe spend a little too much time on that site.
12.gif
I know Vatche has palladium settings because I saw one on Wink''s site today. I think it''s just too new for many people to have it yet. It is in the platinum family and supposedly stays better looking than platinum and doesn''t have to be plated like white gold, so if all that is true, I''d think it would be immensely popular once it catches on.
 
Date: 1/19/2006 6:25:57 PM
Author: Hest88

Do you have links to the individual stones you were mentioning, just so I can get a good idea of how dark green & non-''cloudy'' I can get with a natural?
Go to the ''Search'' function and choose ''Unique'' and then ''Green.'' There are only 3 short pages so you can easily scan through the choices.
Got it... thanks. Nothing round, and nothing dark. They probably don''t heat treat.
 
There's a rather interesting one that's listed as olive color, as well.
And U441 is a very nice color if a tad lumpy in cut.
U441_1_0810200535332PM


Emeralds are often blue-green
CG5mn.jpg


edited: ok, never mind, not really similar in color.
 
Date: 1/19/2006 6:30:25 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I know Vatche has palladium settings because I saw one on Wink''s site today. I think it''s just too new for many people to have it yet. It is in the platinum family and supposedly stays better looking than platinum and doesn''t have to be plated like white gold, so if all that is true, I''d think it would be immensely popular once it catches on.
I''m mostly sold on a custom palladium ring (I think), but am still worried about potential allergies. Maybe I''ll get her some palladium earrings for Valentines Day. She leaves earring in 24 hours a day for days at a time. If she can handle having it in her ear for a week, I''m hoping she can handle having it on her finger for a looooong time.
 
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