The Cleveland Kidnappings

[madelise]

UGH, I am SO upset at that man that owns the house! HE IS SO DISGUSTING! Him joining the search team for one of the girls? And asking his son (who wrote an article on one of the girls) if he's heard anything? WTF?





What a f-ing bastard.

 

[Polished]

Civilised people set the standards of how crime is punished; we don't bring ourselves down to the level of the low lifes.

Also with these control freak, low lifes one notes, ultimately the woman trumps them - the women of the Cleveland kidnappings, Natascha Kampusch, Elisabeth Fritzl to name just a few. Elisabeth Fritzl's abominable father bombarded her with letters from jail, begging for some kind of contact. Ultimately control and power doesn't last.

I read Room and I think it was a worthy subject for examination. How would you fill in your time in such a situation? how would you cope with the abuse? how would you plan your escape? However, I think it is going to a place where only those who have been through the experience personally could meaningfully throw light on the subject. I just hope the women of the Cleveland kiddnappings are able to move forward and do so in their own way. Natascha chose to tell her story, Elisabeth Fritzl chose the path of complete privacy and her children had their identities changed. She appears to be one hell of a strong woman.

 

[Mayk]

Put them in jail... Not in solitary confinement... In the general population! Even the criminals will find their crimes unforgivable. I wonder what jail justice would be like for these monsters. Locked up and tortured seems mild but they would be getting time to let the wheels of justice work while living in a place of fear!

 

[AGBF]

I don't like that my tax dollars are keeping the perpetrators housed and fed for life in prison. They do not deserve even that.

Yup, execute them tomorrow w/o a trial.

I am glad that our system of justice didn't dispense with the trial. The two brothers of Ariel Castro have been released. The police believe he acted alone. If they didn't commit the crimes, it would have been unjust for them to have been executed because they were related to the criminal who did.

AGBF

 

[chrono]

I strongly believe in a fair trial, no question about that. Unfortunately, no system in perfect, no matter how we wish it so.

 

[VRBeauty]

I'm so glad the women and girl were released, and there aren't enough kudos to go around for the neighbor who made that happen. As thoroughly evil and reprehensible as the whole thing is... the guy is "normal" enough that he went through life for all those years holding a job, interacting with family and neighbors, apparently with no one suspecting that he had such a horrible double life. Totally chilling and unbelievable.

I'm guessing it's not a capital crime, however.

 

[Tuckins1]

This is a perfect example of the type of "person" who should just be taken out back and put down. He's broken, sick, and completely un-fixable. He's a monster... Makes me wish we had more of an "eye for an eye" type of justice system!

 

[iheartscience]

I don't like that my tax dollars are keeping the perpetrators housed and fed for life in prison. They do not deserve even that.

Yup, execute them tomorrow w/o a trial.

I am glad that our system of justice didn't dispense with the trial. The two brothers of Ariel Castro have been released. The police believe he acted alone. If they didn't commit the crimes, it would have been unjust for them to have been executed because they were related to the criminal who did.

AGBF

Ditto.

He's a despicable person, but calm it down everyone. Wishing for someone to be anally raped in jail is a bit much.

 

[Circe]

I'm so glad the women and girl were released, and there aren't enough kudos to go around for the neighbor who made that happen. As thoroughly evil and reprehensible as the whole thing is... the guy is "normal" enough that he went through life for all those years holding a job, interacting with family and neighbors, apparently with no one suspecting that he had such a horrible double life. Totally chilling and unbelievable.

I'm guessing it's not a capital crime, however.

If the stories of the dead woman and the murdered children turn out to be true, I think it will be.

I'd also say ... my god, our system confuses me sometimes. Ten years of torture for no reason other than the sheer pleasure of torture strike me as meriting the death penalty a lot more than, say, cleanly shooting somebody in the execution of a robbery.

 

[VRBeauty]

I'm so glad the women and girl were released, and there aren't enough kudos to go around for the neighbor who made that happen. As thoroughly evil and reprehensible as the whole thing is... the guy is "normal" enough that he went through life for all those years holding a job, interacting with family and neighbors, apparently with no one suspecting that he had such a horrible double life. Totally chilling and unbelievable.

I'm guessing it's not a capital crime, however.

If the stories of the dead woman and the murdered children turn out to be true, I think it will be.

I'd also say ... my god, our system confuses me sometimes. Ten years of torture for no reason other than the sheer pleasure of torture strike me as meriting the death penalty a lot more than, say, cleanly shooting somebody in the execution of a robbery.

Good point - we don't know much of what happened yet.

 

[kenny]

I strongly believe in a fair trial, no question about that. Unfortunately, no system in perfect, no matter how we wish it so.

I agree.
It is tragic when the innocent are punished or the guilty go free because the truth did not emerge from the process.
I'm especially disappointed that the rich get better lawyers than the poor so they win more often.
That's not justice.

But the system is better than in some other countries and it's all we have.

 

[AGBF]

I don't like that my tax dollars are keeping the perpetrators housed and fed for life in prison. They do not deserve even that.

Yup, execute them tomorrow w/o a trial.

I am glad that our system of justice didn't dispense with the trial. The two brothers of Ariel Castro have been released. The police believe he acted alone. If they didn't commit the crimes, it would have been unjust for them to have been executed because they were related to the criminal who did.

Ditto.

He's a despicable person, but calm it down everyone. Wishing for someone to be anally raped in jail is a bit much.

Actually, I can understand that, Thing! (Wishing it, I mean, not sentencing him to anal rape, which would be cruel and unusual punishment.) What I oppose is not The Thought Police, but a lynch mob. I really fear the mob mentality. I fear that a group of outraged citizens is capable of deciding that-for instance-three brothers whose pictures were in the newspaper committed a crime and that they should take action for it, as Dancing Fire suggested, without a trial. If a day later the newspaper is proven to have gotten the "facts" wrong, you have two men who committed no crimes dead, lynched by a mob. That's not justice.

AGBF

 

[iheartscience]

I don't like that my tax dollars are keeping the perpetrators housed and fed for life in prison. They do not deserve even that.

Yup, execute them tomorrow w/o a trial.

I am glad that our system of justice didn't dispense with the trial. The two brothers of Ariel Castro have been released. The police believe he acted alone. If they didn't commit the crimes, it would have been unjust for them to have been executed because they were related to the criminal who did.

Ditto.

He's a despicable person, but calm it down everyone. Wishing for someone to be anally raped in jail is a bit much.

Actually, I can understand that, Thing! (Wishing it, I mean, not sentencing him to anal rape, which would be cruel and unusual punishment.) What I oppose is not The Thought Police, but a lynch mob. I really fear the mob mentality. I fear that a group of outraged citizens is capable of deciding that-for instance-three brothers whose pictures were in the newspaper committed a crime and that they should take action for it, as Dancing Fire suggested, without a trial. If a day later the newspaper is proven to have gotten the "facts" wrong, you have two men who committed no crimes dead, lynched by a mob. That's not justice.

AGBF

No I agree with you Deb...you said it much better than I did.

 

[JillyC]

Such a heinous crime. Those women will need a lot of help to move on from all of this. What a great Mother's Day gift for the families.

But I agree with toning it down. We have the criminal justice system in order to stop gut reaction judge/jury/executioner mobs.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I want to puke.

So extra yucky crimes mean we become a lynch mob and abandon our justice system?
Shame on y'all.

Please trust our system to administer justice.

Kenny I am with you on this.

I share everyone's abhorrence of this situation. I share the desire for punishment.

But I have read about far too many cases of wrongful conviction to ever support such retribution This case seems clear cut. But many other cases that seem clear cut at the time and where a severe penalty is applied... even a death penalty... turn out to be false convictions!

Two such cases that absolutely break my heart:

http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/centralparkfive/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost:_The_Child_Murders_at_Robin_Hood_Hills

I can't stomach what these men did, and many other horrible acts. But I am even more fearful of wrongful conviction. And wrongful conviction happens much more frequently than this type of terrible kidnapping/torture case.

 

[monarch64]

Such a heinous crime. Those women will need a lot of help to move on from all of this. What a great Mother's Day gift for the families.

But I agree with toning it down. We have the criminal justice system in order to stop gut reaction judge/jury/executioner mobs.

I agree. But...we've had cases like O.J. Simpson, and Caysee (however you spell her name) Anthony, etc. who have apparently beaten the system and gone free even though it was pretty darn clear that they committed terrible crimes. I can totally understand why people don't want to tone it down. That said, I am one of those who is all for letting the judicial system do its thing and will patiently watch to see how this plays out. We had friends over for dinner tonight and the post-dinner conversation got pretty heated as we were discussing the Cleveland Kidnapping case. I think the brothers knew something; one of our guests thought they knew nothing. It was a very interesting discussion.