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The Big Buy - Help!

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toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
Hi Everyone,

I''ve just joined so I thought i''d introduce myself first... i''m a chinese guy who grew up in Australia and have now been living in London for the year and a half. I''ve been seeing my gf for a while now and its getting time to pop the question, so first step.. get the diamond and ring.

Seeing as i''m in London, We thought we''d shoot over to Antwerp and take a look over there (going on the 30th of March!). At first, i''ve done a bit of research and looked at the 4 C''s and great, i can get my head around that lol. We''ve even tried a few rings on her and realised that a .7 - 1.0 carat ring actually looks better on her hand than a huge chunky one which is excellent as its easier on the pocket lol! Anyway, roughly i was looking for a round .7 carat, D colour, VS1.

And then I saw the HRD, GIA etc gradings. yikes
. heh heh. Anyway, i''ve contacted a few people and got the specs from one dealer which looked good at first (here it is now)

Date 12/06/2006
Shape Round
Carat 0.70
Color E
Measurements 5.66 - 5.70 mm x 3.58 mm
Purity VVS2
Proportion Very Good
Finish Good


Girdle thin 2.5% faceted
Culet pointed
Table Width (%) 59
Crown height (%) 15.5
Pavilion Depth (%) 45

Fluorescence Nil
Price/Carat 4130

Ok so apparantly the proportion is very good.. however when i stuck the numbers into the diamond cut analysis, it comes up in the blue region so that''s a 5 or 6? That''s bad right? Am i reading this thing right? I dont really want to say the dealer''s name because of the advertising regulations on this web site etc.. but i''ve seen a post by someone on this web site in 2001 saying that their cuts weren''t the best and might make them seem flat. Does this match up with what you guys think as well?

Thanks everyone!

Toast
 

toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
Hi Belle, thanks for that.. i''m assuming that all these prices are in USD?

I''ve certainly found some that fit what i''m looking for and the price is within my budget... but i would have thought that i''d get a better deal in antwerp since apparantly 50% of the world''s diamonds go thru there? hmmm... Also, its kind of sentimental for me if i get it in the EU
.

I notice that HRD ratings aren''t often included here.... do they grade a bit lower than GIA etc? hmmm maybe i should read up some more .

Gotta love these smileys...
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
Date: 3/8/2007 12:29:03 PM
Author: toast21

Hi Belle, thanks for that.. i''m assuming that all these prices are in USD?
you are most welcome, and yes, they are usd

Date: 3/8/2007 12:29:03 PM
Author: toast21

I''ve certainly found some that fit what i''m looking for and the price is within my budget... but i would have thought that i''d get a better deal in antwerp since apparantly 50% of the world''s diamonds go thru there? hmmm... Also, its kind of sentimental for me if i get it in the EU
.
i wouldn''t be so certain about getting a better deal but be sure to do your research and see how you can make out.
if you are set on buying in antwerp, perhaps you could contact paul-antwerp of www.craftedbyinfinity.com he doesn''t sell directly to the public but he might be able to steer you in the right direction.

Date: 3/8/2007 12:29:03 PM
Author: toast21

I notice that HRD ratings aren''t often included here.... do they grade a bit lower than GIA etc? hmmm maybe i should read up some more .
you don''t see a lot of hrd grading reports around here but from what i understand, they are a reputable and stringent lab in their own right.
and definitely keep reading!
you have the answers at your fingertips!


Date: 3/8/2007 12:29:03 PM
Author: toast21
Gotta love these smileys...
agreed!
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Toast,

Consider consulting with these guys to "butter up" your search for some quality purchases.

Not sure if you have to do any backwards engineering to consider one of their options, but two, for example (neither nailing it...so I''d engage them directly for that) are this & this, both found here on Paul''s site.

Regards (& welcome to Pricescope),
 

toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
Hi Regular Guy and belle,

ok so i''ve shot off an email to paul via his web site ... fingers crossed :).

I have to admit that i''m a little overwhelmed with this whole process, but am VERY interested in going to antwerp as part of a holiday. I guess part of the issue is that i dont have a tangible idea of what''s "better" a slightly inferior stone with a better cut or a better stone with a cut not as good.. I''ve taken a bit of a look around here in London but every jeweller uses different lighting, etc. I''m SURE i''m not the first one to go crazy over this process heh heh.


Actually to be honest, i''m an engineer, so i guess i went crazy a long time ago, this is more or less reinforcing it
.
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
Date: 3/8/2007 5:16:51 PM
Author: toast21
Hi Regular Guy and belle,

ok so i've shot off an email to paul via his web site ... fingers crossed :).

I have to admit that i'm a little overwhelmed with this whole process, but am VERY interested in going to antwerp as part of a holiday. I guess part of the issue is that i dont have a tangible idea of what's 'better' a slightly inferior stone with a better cut or a better stone with a cut not as good.. I've taken a bit of a look around here in London but every jeweller uses different lighting, etc. I'm SURE i'm not the first one to go crazy over this process heh heh.


Actually to be honest, i'm an engineer, so i guess i went crazy a long time ago, this is more or less reinforcing it
.
it is a little overwhelming but i can tell that you are going to be just fine.
i'm not worried at all.
just make sure you take your time and learn all you can. ps is an amazing resource, so you're already way ahead of the game!


hehehe....i like your new avatar! is that toastbob squarepants?
 

toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
lol belle, you picked it in one! I got my cousin to make this avatar for me. Basically my nickname was toast, and i came to London to travel the EU. So i figured a good nick would be travelling toast and asked my cousin (graphic designed) to make me a picture that looked like sponge bob square pants. But to sub in a toast for the sponge, and to put in a backpack with the aussie flag on it ;-).

One question belle.. based on the specs of that first diamond i put up... would you say that''s a bad choice?
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
Date: 3/8/2007 6:32:36 PM
Author: toast21

lol belle, you picked it in one! I got my cousin to make this avatar for me. Basically my nickname was toast, and i came to London to travel the EU. So i figured a good nick would be travelling toast and asked my cousin (graphic designed) to make me a picture that looked like sponge bob square pants. But to sub in a toast for the sponge, and to put in a backpack with the aussie flag on it ;-).
cool! i love it


Date: 3/8/2007 6:32:36 PM
Author: toast21

One question belle.. based on the specs of that first diamond i put up... would you say that''s a bad choice?
basically....yes.


you can do much, much better

psphotopic_59.jpg
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Date: 3/8/2007 5:16:51 PM
Author: toast21
Hi Regular Guy and belle,


ok so i''ve shot off an email to paul via his web site ... fingers crossed :).


I have to admit that i''m a little overwhelmed with this whole process, but am VERY interested in going to antwerp as part of a holiday. I guess part of the issue is that i dont have a tangible idea of what''s ''better'' a slightly inferior stone with a better cut or a better stone with a cut not as good.. I''ve taken a bit of a look around here in London but every jeweller uses different lighting, etc. I''m SURE i''m not the first one to go crazy over this process heh heh.



Actually to be honest, i''m an engineer, so i guess i went crazy a long time ago, this is more or less reinforcing it
.
Toast,

A better cut is almost ALWAYS more important than an inferior cut. Get the best cut you can afford, that''s where almost all the sparkle comes from and an ideal cut diamond will almost always look much more lively than a lower cut. In my opinion CUT is the most important C of all!

Best of luck!
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
of course, minor facets are assumed in these mock-ups but you get the basic idea....
btw...depth is 63% which can explain why it's facing up smaller than it should

psphotopic_60.jpg
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
examples of better .....

psphotopic_63.jpg
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
aset

psphotopic_64.jpg
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
the simulated idealscope and aset (respectively) above are assuming optical symmetry (big assumption there!) and are only as reliable as the information given. so, they are meant as just an ''overview'' ...nothing more.
 

toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
hey belle, are there any guidelines to tell me what i should be looking for in those photos? :).. When i first saw them i was like.. wow.. then i thought what the heck am i looking for? lol how do i tell a good one from a bad one?


Also, the program that you use.. is it freeware and isthat available somewhere for download? That would probably be ideal for me as i could take my laptop to antwerp and plug in the values and see for myself as opposed to just takng their word for it and getting suckered in


Thanks for the clarification neatfreak.. i suspected as much but just needed the nod before i go off blazing my own trail on the wrong assumption heh heh
 

toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
Ok just got sent the specs of another stone.. this one looks a little better - any thoughts?

Carat Weight : 0.7 Carat
Color Grade : D
Carity Grade : VS1
Cut Grade : Excellent
Polish : Excellent
Symmetry : Excellent

MEasurements : 5.70 - 5.76 x 3.54
Table : 54.5
Crown Height - Angle : 16% - 35
Pavilion Depth - angle : 43% - 40.7
Girdle Thickness : Medium (Faceted)
Culet : Pointed

So for the depth % i''ve just divided 3.54 by 5.76... is that right? should i have used 5.7? hmmm.. so by my readings, that comes up as a 1.2... does that mean its not an AGS0?
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
13,324
Diam Calc is about 300.

if you're going to view stones, you don't need DC. Buy an Ideal Scope instead.

3.54 / 5.73 = 61.8%

HCA and AGS are different from each other.

But 1.2 is a very safe HCA score.
 

toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
excellent.. yep i thought that the ideal scopes would be expensive.. but its only $85.. so that''s like £50 for me. That''s a cheap investment to make sure i get a good rock :)

Thanks for that Julien... Just a quick question... to get AGS0, does that mean it needs to get sub 1 on this scale that we''re using or are the two scales not comparable?
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
13,324
no, they are not the same at all; HCA uses averaged angles to predict performance, AGS has ray-trace. but they do complement each other.
You can look if the x (in HCA) that marks the crown and pavilion angle, for a given table, falls within the box that would indicate an AGS 0 candidate, but stones that fall in the box may not get 0 if submitted to AGS, and there are stones outside the box that get 0.
 

toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
aahhh gotcha, thanks Julien. When looking at a diamond thru an ideal scope.. does it look very much like the pictures above? ie i should just look for red and dark objects and only want small white near the outsides of the diamond?

One more thing... when i look at a diamond.. do i put it down on its table? i imagine it'd be too hard to sit it on the culet :)
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
Date: 3/9/2007 6:36:27 AM
Author: toast21

When looking at a diamond thru an ideal scope.. does it look very much like the pictures above? ie i should just look for red and dark objects and only want small white near the outsides of the diamond?
yes, it should look basically like the images above. well....not like the first one!
ew!
here''s more about the idealscope http://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp it will be invaluable in your search.

Date: 3/9/2007 6:36:27 AM
Author: toast21

One more thing... when i look at a diamond.. do i put it down on its table? i imagine it''d be too hard to sit it on the culet :)
you will actually look at it through the table (that''s where the light return is coming from) since you will be looking at loose stones, you will be using a pair of tweezers to hold the diamond and look at it.
you can look here http://diamondscope.pricescope.com/ (very bottom left) for the video titled ''idealscope''
it is a short video on how to use the idealscope. you can get a really good idea of what you will be seeing when you use it.
 

toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
Ok at first i was scratching my head trying to figure out the differences between the two pictures in easy rules, but i've got it now :). I'll check out the video when i'm at home and will figure out how to use this baby when i get it! Thanks heaps for that belle.

So i've heard abotu AGS0.. is there an AGS1, 2 etc? or is it like.. if they meet the requirements then AGS will certify them? and is that the same with HRD?

Sorry if i sound like a complete novice but uhh i am


On the other hand, if someone's coming to London and wants some coffee tips... i can certainly help out there :)
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
Date: 3/9/2007 10:19:08 AM
Author: toast21

Ok at first i was scratching my head trying to figure out the differences between the two pictures in easy rules, but i''ve got it now :). I''ll check out the video when i''m at home and will figure out how to use this baby when i get it! Thanks heaps for that belle.
yeah...sorry about throwing that stuff out there right off the bat. it was a lot to digest. you can keep nibbling on the info for awhile and if you have any other questions, please, please don''t hesitate to ask.

Date: 3/9/2007 10:19:08 AM
Author: toast21

So i''ve heard abotu AGS0.. is there an AGS1, 2 etc? or is it like.. if they meet the requirements then AGS will certify them? and is that the same with HRD?
yes, there is ags1, 2, 3, 4....etc.... ags will grade anything but cutters know how well their stones are cut and the crappers aren''t going to get sent to ags. they will send them to another lab that doesn''t grade by cut or performance. basically, stones are sent to the lab that will make them look the best on paper.

now...you can still do very good getting a stone from ags that is not a ''0''. there are stones that take a hit in the ''finish'' grade (polish/symmetry) that still get a ''0'' in light performance. the overall polish and symmetry aren''t crucial to light performance, so a stone with ''excellent'' polish or symmetry instead of ''ideal'' would still be a great choice.
just make sure you get that ''0'' in light performance.
 

toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
yep that certainly does help a lot belle... i think a lot of stones that i''ll bump into in Antwerp may be HRD graded like the first specs that i posted here. I noticed that they dont have a 0, 1, 2, 3 etc grading..
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
Date: 3/9/2007 11:06:25 AM
Author: toast21
yep that certainly does help a lot belle... i think a lot of stones that i''ll bump into in Antwerp may be HRD graded like the first specs that i posted here. I noticed that they dont have a 0, 1, 2, 3 etc grading..
eh...don''t worry about it. you''ll have your idealscope.


keep reading, learning and asking questions and you''ll do fine.
 

toast21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
13
hmm ok so i''ve been searching the diamonds on this site based on what i''m looking at and the prices look a lot cheaper than what i''ve been getting quoted. The only thing i can think of is are these prices excluding VAT / GST? All prices i''ve been quoted so far are at Antwerp VAT and if i remove that, then the prices are pretty much the same...

However, if the prices here are inclusive of VAT, then it might be more worthwhile for me to order from one of these sites and get them to ship it over...
 
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