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Calliecake said:
@Ella, With all do respect I think you are being wrong here. The overwhelming majority of people on this forum are women.
What is happening now in our country is something major that will impact womens lives for years to come. In some ways telling us this can only be discussed within your set parameters makes me feel like your are also trying to control women. No one has been disrespectful to anyone in this thread. Are we supposed to be good little woman and not state how we feel like it was in 1950?

I would think in the year 2021 women should be allowed to discuss topics that are important to woman, not just kittens and puppies. We are discussing this in hangout, not show me the bling or rockytalk after all. It is a learning experience to place yourself in someone else’s shoes. We should all be doing that on a regular basis.
Click to expand...

Please understand that I am doing my job by enforcing this forum's policies. I am doing my best to allow everyone to speak on this topic and to keep the thread. I am spending much more time than it would take to just remove it and walk away, and yet we are not doing that because we would like you to be able to discuss this important topic.

You are welcome to state how you feel about the law itself, in general about lawmakers who supported this law, the legal parameters around abortion, etc. We simply ask you not to single out particular religions, politicians, or political parties. Please remember that the last time we allowed political threads I regularly was berated and insulted in posts and in emails. That is why we have the policy. Not because we are trying to control women or women's topics.
 
That’s fair.
 
I want Ella's job! :bigsmile: I wouldn't say anything, everything goes! :dance:
 
@Ella, it's too late for me to edit my post #86. Is there a way you can give me access to amend it? If so I'll change "the evangelicals and others" which I assume was a violation of the rules to "they" .
 
@Ella, This topic has bothered me immensely the past few days. I’m really not trying to be disrespectful to you. I’m just mad as hell that this is happening in this country and extremely upset for how this decision will affect women lives. The no exception for rape and incest is just unfathomably cruel.

I don’t want this thread shut down.
 
missy said:
B702DDFC-04E6-4C54-8C72-8B8D370F315B.jpeg

Word.
Click to expand...

THIS. I read every post and this one is so important because it takes a step back to look at the very big picture. hard to believe it happened in this country. Now Texas joins the company of...

Andorra
Angola
Dominican Republic
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Egypt
El Salvador
Gabon
Haiti
Honduras
Iraq
Laos
Madagascar
Malta
Marshall Islands
Mauritania
Micronesia
Palau
Philippines
San Marino
Senegal
Surinam
Tonga

and...

TEXAS

California has wildfires, earthquakes, droughts, sky-high cost of housing, rolling black outs, terrible public school system. But being female in Texas seems to have all that beat.

CA welcomes you. We'll just "rearrange some things, but in the end the more the merrier".
 
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It's pretty damn hard to discuss this without mentioning religion or politics. We've done a pretty good job of it but really, we must call out those responsible, and we all know who they are!
 
Karl_K said:
No matter which side of the abortion issue your on, the law and what it wants to implement should scare the pssss out of you.
The government can not enforce a law so we will let you sue your neighbor for 10k to get you to enforce it.
wtf?!?!?! scary as heck.
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The hellish perversity of it all is compounded by the draconian provision that even if you, the target of the lawsuit, win, you lo$e because
(i) Notwithstanding any other law, a court may not award costs or attorney's fees under the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure or any other rule adopted by the supreme court under Section 22.004, Government Code, to a defendant in an action brought under this section. [emphasis added].​
Subdivision (i) of Section 171.208:
legiscan.com

Texas SB8 | 2021-2022 | 87th Legislature

Bill Text (2021-05-19) Relating to abortion, including abortions after detection of an unborn child's heartbeat; authorizing a private civil right of action. [Effective on 9/1/21]
legiscan.com legiscan.com
 
MollyMalone said:
The hellish perversity of it all is compounded by the draconian provision that even if you, the target of the lawsuit, win, you lo$e because
(i) Notwithstanding any other law, a court may not award costs or attorney's fees under the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure or any other rule adopted by the supreme court under Section 22.004, Government Code, to a defendant in an action brought under this section. [emphasis added].​
Subdivision (i) of Section 171.208:
legiscan.com

Texas SB8 | 2021-2022 | 87th Legislature

Bill Text (2021-05-19) Relating to abortion, including abortions after detection of an unborn child's heartbeat; authorizing a private civil right of action. [Effective on 9/1/21]
legiscan.com legiscan.com
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Wow. So the deputized public can go after anyone and even if they are found innocent they get stuck with court costs and attorneys fees? That is so hard to comprehend. The vigilantes might as well go on a fishing expedition and sue everyone who knows a woman of child-bearing age and hope they “catch” someone who assisted in one way or the other.
 
MollyMalone said:
The hellish perversity of it all is compounded by the draconian provision that even if you, the target of the lawsuit, win, you lo$e because
(i) Notwithstanding any other law, a court may not award costs or attorney's fees under the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure or any other rule adopted by the supreme court under Section 22.004, Government Code, to a defendant in an action brought under this section. [emphasis added].​
Subdivision (i) of Section 171.208:
legiscan.com

Texas SB8 | 2021-2022 | 87th Legislature

Bill Text (2021-05-19) Relating to abortion, including abortions after detection of an unborn child's heartbeat; authorizing a private civil right of action. [Effective on 9/1/21]
legiscan.com legiscan.com
Click to expand...
I honestly dont know what to say that can be said here.
%@#!%#@%@$# ^%&^#!$%$^@$#@ bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep
 
Karl_K said:
I honestly dont know what to say that can be said here.
%@#!%#@%@$# ^%&^#!$%$^@$#@ bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep
Click to expand...
The Act also gives carte blanche to bring a lawsuit against you on the alleged ground that you merely intended, at some point, to aid, abet, perform/induce an abortion -- without actually having aided or abetted or performed/induced one. So sounds as if a Google search alone would suffice. And, your neighbor, say, can wait as long as 4 years to lob that lawsuit with an eye to reaping $$$. How the hell do you defend against that?!
 
Lookinagain said:
Wow. So the deputized public can go after anyone and even if they are found innocent they get stuck with court costs and attorneys fees? That is so hard to comprehend. The vigilantes might as well go on a fishing expedition and sue everyone who knows a woman of child-bearing age and hope they “catch” someone who assisted in one way or the other.
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I think that’s the intent. Intimidate anyone involved in providing abortions into quitting bc they can’t afford to keep fighting the lawsuits.
 
:eek-2:
If someone “aids or abets” an abortion in Texas but lives in another state, can Texas punish them? For example, say you live in New York but donate to an abortion fund that pays for procedures that violate SB 8. Can you be sued?

The text of the bill does not limit its geographic scope in this regard, so the answer may well be yes, at least in theory. Giving money for the specific purpose of “aiding or abetting” a Texas abortion likely establishes the minimum contacts necessary for a Texas court to assert jurisdiction over an out-of-state resident.

slate.com

What We Know—and What We Don’t—About How Texas’ Abortion Ban Will Be Enforced

The law is packed with alarming ambiguities.
slate.com slate.com
 
When those psycho antichoice groups jam up the court system, it will be anarchy here. I just can't believe this enforcement policy is going to survive the courts. There is too much room for abuse.

ETA it shouldn't be allowed to be on the books as it is a gross twisted law but I believe the enforcement mechanism will be where it fails.
 
Gussie said:
When those psycho antichoice groups jam up the court system, it will be anarchy here. I just can't believe this enforcement policy is going to survive the courts. There is too much room for abuse.

ETA it shouldn't be allowed to be on the books as it is a gross twisted law but I believe the enforcement mechanism will be where it fails.
Click to expand...
I'm hopeful that their attempt to make this law "bullet proof" does them in and strangles the court system to the point that it takes years and years to get a defendant into court, and by then, maybe we will have a reasonable decision by the Supreme Court finding this law unconstitutional. One can only hope.
 
thank you for having this post and allowing this discussion. I am an Australian and horrified by it all and feel a bit helpless watching it unfold. It is important to be able to discuss this sensibly.
 
I don't have much to say as it's too much for me to even think about.
It causes my blood to boil and my heart to shrink & I turn into something with a rage so animalistic and raw.

I don't know how this actually was put into effect but I have found a group that seems to be legitimate *but please do your own research on them as I cannot be 100% certain* who are funding women's travel expenses including lodging to travel out of state to obtain the abortion they so desperately need & have a right to undergo.

https://instagram.com/fundtexaschoice?utm_medium=copy_link

Above is the link to their Instagram page, where you do not have to have a profile to look at; there in the bio you will find a linktree link that will take you to a page where you can donate to their cause & efforts!!
 
Can the great “jerks” of Texas go after anyone who has donated money to help these women? If I donate from the state I live in can they sue me for $10,000? I’m going to call Planned Parenthood to find out what can be done to help. I imagine they are already putting plans in place to help women.

Just so I’m perfectly clear I’m in no way calling you a jerk @Gussie.
 
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Calliecake said:
If I donate from the state I live in can they sue me for $10,000?
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It would be considered "aiding/abetting" under the Textaliban law. I don't even know if it's safe to assume that donor info is safe from hackers. The unknown implications of this travesty provide a good foundation for paranoia.
 
Matata said:
It would be considered "aiding/abetting" under the Textaliban law. I don't even know if it's safe to assume that donor info is safe from hackers. The unknown implications of this travesty provide a good foundation for paranoia.
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This is nuts.
Also nobody would know who donated unless you proclaim it.
 
Matata said:
It would be considered "aiding/abetting" under the Textaliban law. I don't even know if it's safe to assume that donor info is safe from hackers. The unknown implications of this travesty provide a good foundation for paranoia.
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@Matata , I’m getting creeped out just thinking about it. Do you think Planned Parenthood is working on something so people can help in a way that would prevent these people from coming after us?
 
Calliecake said:
Can the great “jerks” of Texas go after anyone who has donated money to help these women? If I donate from the state I live in can they sue me for $10,000? I’m going to call Planned Parenthood to find out what can be done to help. I imagine they are already putting plans in place to help women.

Just so I’m perfectly clear I’m in no way calling you a jerk @Gussie.
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:lol: I know what jerks you're talking about!

This is what I mean by total chaos in the courts though. Can I, as a Texan, donate to Planned Parenthood or any fund to help Texas women get the services they need? From what I have read, even writing or searching on the internet about it can be considered to have the intention of aiding or abetting.

Those crazy people could probably sue me for writing this.
 
LemonMoonLex said:
This is nuts.
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It can get nuttier. Remember in 2019 a woman was indicted for manslaughter because she miscarried after being shot? The charges were dropped and never should happened.
 
Calliecake said:
Do you think Planned Parenthood is working on something so people can help in a way that would prevent these people from coming after us?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I'd want to find out if there are privacy laws protecting donor info and if so, would those laws still hold related to SB 8. Planned Parenthood provides extensive services to men and women so unless a check specifically stated "for abortion services" or something like that, I don't see how anyone could prove a donation was aiding/abetting. Under SB 8, the onus to prove it wasn't for abortion would probably be on the donor -- it's a lose/lose situation. I'm not a lawyer and my opinion doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
 
I was watching a heartbreaking interview with the founder of Whole Women's Health, who successfully won a Supreme Court case against a Texas law in 2016. She had such sad stories to share (See @missy post #82). I wrote to both my Senators and my Congressman during the broadcast. I kept it short and simple: "What happened in Texas with SB8 is frightening and sets a precedent for other states to follow. Women's healthcare and abortion rights MUST be protected! Roe v Wade needs to be codified NOW!"

FYI, The Women's Health Protection Act now has 216 co-sponsors, including 48 Senate co-sponsors. You can Google it, since I'm not supposed to mention names or something. (But there's a Rep. from Pasadena, CA and a Sen. from CT very involved in it.)
 
Gussie said:
When those psycho antichoice groups jam up the court system, it will be anarchy here. I just can't believe this enforcement policy is going to survive the courts. There is too much room for abuse.

ETA it shouldn't be allowed to be on the books as it is a gross twisted law but I believe the enforcement mechanism will be where it fails.
Click to expand...

This, hopefully!
 
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