Testing whether a consumer can buy a nice fancy (EC)

[emeraldken]

First post...

After about 1 Jillion hours of research on Emerald Cuts last week, I finally found the stone I feel is a winner. Last night I learned through articles here that the odds are really against me getting a great stone. I bought it today, so I''ll know by Wednesday!

Here are the specs:

GIA Certified Emerald Cut

1.33 ct
H VS1
7.52 x 5.24 x 3.70 (1.44 L/W ratio)
Table 64%
Total Depth 70.6%
Girdle slightly thick - thick
Crown Height 15%
Crown Angle 33.5 deg
Pavillion Depth 51%

Polish Excellent
Symmetry VG
Culet none
Flourescence none


That''s basically a 1A cut rating in every single category but the depth (slightly deep), which is 3A. Overall AGA score using their grading tool is 2B.

If this stone turns out to be anything but amazing, I''ll be the first one to admit that buying by the numbers is flawed.

By the way, this stone (assuming I like it!) will be set in a Tacori 2620 EC MD P (thanks emeraldlover1 for showing me the perfect ring!) as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife. She has been on my case for a year now to "update" her Marquise that I painstakingly picked out with the same diligence 20 yrs ago. That''s a 1.01 D Si1 with near perfect proportions set with two stepped rows of baguettes each side. Doing the research for this new stone/ring helped me get over the disappointment that the original ring was no longer...loved. I guess I''m the sentimental one. Oh well, she''s worth it!

I''ll let you know how it goes from here.

 

[zhuzhu]

What a sweet husband you are! EC is my favorite cut in the world and I hope this will turn out to be as beautiful as the numbers indicate! Don''t forget to come back with pictures!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I hope you love it!

Why did you decide to "risk" going by numbers only anyways? Many vendors can help you out with little increase in price.

 

[emeraldken]

Date: 3/30/2010 12:41:28 AM
Author: dreamer_d
I hope you love it!

Why did you decide to ''risk'' going by numbers only anyways? Many vendors can help you out with little increase in price.

I did ask the vendor''s opinion. It was a pretty short conversation -- he pretty much said there''s nothing to dislike about the stone. His words were "you may find equal, but you won''t find better." I did have him provide a Sarin (more #''s!) after his opinion just so I''d know the crown height. Was bracing myself for a letdown there as I thought "here comes the reason this stone is priced so well." Pleasantly surprised at the 15%.

This vendor also has a legit 100% refund policy, so the risk is really only $35 shipping. Given the near perfect cut and solid, GIA color/clarity specs, I felt i''d just spend the $35 and get it into my hands. IF I had opted for some of the other stones -- each with their own little issue here and there -- I''d have definitely turned up the help requests. Lord help the person who has to deal with me if this stone doesn''t cut the mustard!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/30/2010 12:55:19 AM
Author: emeraldken

Date: 3/30/2010 12:41:28 AM
Author: dreamer_d
I hope you love it!

Why did you decide to ''risk'' going by numbers only anyways? Many vendors can help you out with little increase in price.

I did ask the vendor''s opinion. It was a pretty short conversation -- he pretty much said there''s nothing to dislike about the stone. His words were ''you may find equal, but you won''t find better.'' I did have him provide a Sarin (more #''s!) after his opinion just so I''d know the crown height. Was bracing myself for a letdown there as I thought ''here comes the reason this stone is priced so well.'' Pleasantly surprised at the 15%.

This vendor also has a legit 100% refund policy, so the risk is really only $35 shipping. Given the near perfect cut and solid, GIA color/clarity specs, I felt i''d just spend the $35 and get it into my hands. IF I had opted for some of the other stones -- each with their own little issue here and there -- I''d have definitely turned up the help requests. Lord help the person who has to deal with me if this stone doesn''t cut the mustard!

What frame of reference would you use to know how it compares to other ECs?
How will you even know if its good or great?

 

[emeraldken]

Date: 3/30/2010 12:40:24 AM
Author: zhuzhu
What a sweet husband you are! EC is my favorite cut in the world and I hope this will turn out to be as beautiful as the numbers indicate! Don''t forget to come back with pictures!

Thanks! We went into this exercise thinking Princess Cut, but after seeing emeraldlover1''s ring it quickly became clear to both of us that nothing but an Emerald Cut would do. Just so darn elegant -- just like my wife. I know she''s gonna be ga-ga over it, which makes it worth the substantial dent in the wallet.

 

[bgray]

I have an EC and I think nothing compares! Clearly I am biased. Personally I think you can somewhat safely buy by the numbers if you have enough numbers and you have a fair return policy as a back up. The main potential issues are more aesthetic: corners (how clipped or short), the overall shape (which you can generally know by the ratio) and the faceting (is there something unusual) ....The stone looks like it will be a winner-keep us posted.

 

[Lula]

Date: 3/30/2010 12:58:55 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover
What frame of reference would you use to know how it compares to other ECs?

How will you even know if its good or great?

I'm curious about this, too. I mean, I hope the stone is a good one, of course. But what will your frame of reference be to know, without comparing it to other stones?

Several posters here have emerald cuts that fall outside those numbers, and they are lovely. The numbers help, but comparing the stone's performance against other stones seems to be crucial with fancy cuts to help you select a stone that has the look you want.

Are there some quality jewelry stores in your area where you can take your stone to compare it to others? Or did you view emerald cuts in person before you found this stone online, so that you knew what you wanted in specs?

 

[emeraldken]

Date: 3/30/2010 12:58:55 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/30/2010 12:55:19 AM
Author: emeraldken

Date: 3/30/2010 12:41:28 AM
Author: dreamer_d
I hope you love it!

Why did you decide to ''risk'' going by numbers only anyways? Many vendors can help you out with little increase in price.

I did ask the vendor''s opinion. It was a pretty short conversation -- he pretty much said there''s nothing to dislike about the stone. His words were ''you may find equal, but you won''t find better.'' I did have him provide a Sarin (more #''s!) after his opinion just so I''d know the crown height. Was bracing myself for a letdown there as I thought ''here comes the reason this stone is priced so well.'' Pleasantly surprised at the 15%.

This vendor also has a legit 100% refund policy, so the risk is really only $35 shipping. Given the near perfect cut and solid, GIA color/clarity specs, I felt i''d just spend the $35 and get it into my hands. IF I had opted for some of the other stones -- each with their own little issue here and there -- I''d have definitely turned up the help requests. Lord help the person who has to deal with me if this stone doesn''t cut the mustard!

What frame of reference would you use to know how it compares to other ECs?
How will you even know if its good or great?

I went to a half dozen local B&M''s initially to compare Princess appearance with Emeralds. Also to compare carat size. Ended up looking at maybe 20 Emeralds total, so I feel I have a decent eye for them now. It was very easy for me to tell the decent from the garbage I saw. Didn''t see anything that I felt was great. I''ll have to put my buyer''s justification aside when I see this stone. However, I''ll also be taking it to a reputable local jeweler here in Atlanta for their assessment prior to sending it to Tacori (through them). I fully expect them to be uber-critical of the stone as I''ve told them I can return it. I figure if they can''t shoot it down when comparing it to their proposed apples-apples alternatives, then it must be good.

Also, I''ve studied some of the imagery out there -- ASET, Idealscope, etc. to get a better feel for what good performance in an EC looks like. Hopefully that will help somewhat as I study the performance with my own eyes.

At the end of the day...I know the metrics are excellent, so if it passes my pretty critical eye test, I''m not sure what else I really need to feel good about it. One thing I know for sure is that my wife will be far less critical and should no doubt love it if I consider it a keeper.

 

[Lula]

Date: 3/30/2010 1:13:34 AM
Author: emeraldken

Date: 3/30/2010 12:58:55 AM

Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/30/2010 12:55:19 AM

Author: emeraldken

Date: 3/30/2010 12:41:28 AM

Author: dreamer_d

I hope you love it!


Why did you decide to 'risk' going by numbers only anyways? Many vendors can help you out with little increase in price.

I did ask the vendor's opinion. It was a pretty short conversation -- he pretty much said there's nothing to dislike about the stone. His words were 'you may find equal, but you won't find better.' I did have him provide a Sarin (more #'s!) after his opinion just so I'd know the crown height. Was bracing myself for a letdown there as I thought 'here comes the reason this stone is priced so well.' Pleasantly surprised at the 15%.


This vendor also has a legit 100% refund policy, so the risk is really only $35 shipping. Given the near perfect cut and solid, GIA color/clarity specs, I felt i'd just spend the $35 and get it into my hands. IF I had opted for some of the other stones -- each with their own little issue here and there -- I'd have definitely turned up the help requests. Lord help the person who has to deal with me if this stone doesn't cut the mustard!

What frame of reference would you use to know how it compares to other ECs?

How will you even know if its good or great?

I went to a half dozen local B&M's initially to compare Princess appearance with Emeralds. Also to compare carat size. Ended up looking at maybe 20 Emeralds total, so I feel I have a decent eye for them now. It was very easy for me to tell the decent from the garbage I saw. Didn't see anything that I felt was great. I'll have to put my buyer's justification aside when I see this stone. However, I'll also be taking it to a reputable local jeweler here in Atlanta for their assessment prior to sending it to Tacori (through them). I fully expect them to be uber-critical of the stone as I've told them I can return it. I figure if they can't shoot it down when comparing it to their proposed apples-apples alternatives, then it must be good.


Also, I've studied some of the imagery out there -- ASET, Idealscope, etc. to get a better feel for what good performance in an EC looks like. Hopefully that will help somewhat as I study the performance with my own eyes.


At the end of the day...I know the metrics are excellent, so if it passes my pretty critical eye test, I'm not sure what else I really need to feel good about it. One thing I know for sure is that my wife will be far less critical and should no doubt love it if I consider it a keeper.

Yes, that matches my experience -- it's rare to see a good-looking one. And I know the duds when I see them, even if I can't explain what it is about their cut that makes them a dud.

It sounds like you did your research. I'm curious, because, as you said, this has been a topic of discussion here recently, and the detailed description of your search may help someone else. I agree, your wife will be thrilled. I'm looking forward to seeing the photos!

 

[Gypsy]

I KNOW a consumer can buy a nice fancy. I''ve done it. And I''ve helped people do it.

I think a more accurate title for this thread is... can someone buy a nice fancy based on numbers alone.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I would suggest that you take the diamond to a reputable *independent* appraiser near you. It costs little and it might be just that extra bit of information to help you out. The jeweler you mention has too many competing motivations -- perhaps sell you a diamond, sell you a setting etc.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/30/2010 1:18:08 AM
Author: Gypsy
I KNOW a consumer can buy a nice fancy. I''ve done it. And I''ve helped people do it.

I think a more accurate title for this thread is... can someone buy a nice fancy based on numbers alone.

DITTO.

 

[emeraldken]

Date: 3/30/2010 1:07:27 AM
Author: sarap333

Date: 3/30/2010 12:58:55 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover
What frame of reference would you use to know how it compares to other ECs?

How will you even know if its good or great?

I''m curious about this, too. I mean, I hope the stone is a good one, of course. But what will your frame of reference be to know, without comparing it to other stones?

Several posters here have emerald cuts that fall outside those numbers, and they are lovely. The numbers help, but comparing the stone''s performance against other stones seems to be crucial with fancy cuts to help you select a stone that has the look you want.

Are there some quality jewelry stores in your area where you can take your stone to compare it to others? Or did you view emerald cuts in person before you found this stone online, so that you knew what you wanted in specs?

The one shortcoming I''ve felt so far with the process I''ve been using is that it isn''t good at allowing me to find that excellent, but not highly rated (and potentially less expensive) stone. Because of my fear of getting a dud, I passed on some otherwise nicely spec''d stones that had a slightly large (70%) table, or the table slightly larger than the depth, etc.. I have no doubt that I passed on some beauties solely because of the numbers. However, I was very pleased when I found this particular stone with almost no "apologies" to overlook -- ON PAPER. The fact that it was priced attractively, even compared to other stones with spec issues, was the bonus that caused me to go ahead and pull the trigger to take a look.

I know, I know -- if it sounds too good to be true...so I''m semi-bracing for a letdown. Again -- this is a test, and only a $35 test. If it fails, I''ll learn and move on. Frankly, though, I''m pretty optimistic!

 

[emeraldken]

Date: 3/30/2010 1:18:08 AM
Author: Gypsy
I KNOW a consumer can buy a nice fancy. I''ve done it. And I''ve helped people do it.

I think a more accurate title for this thread is... can someone buy a nice fancy based on numbers alone.

Ha -- I thought of that title, but wondered if all the extra words might get chopped off and leave the title less descriptive than without it. I also kinda wanted it to match-up with the wording of the sticky thread at the top of the forum.

Regardless, my goal is simply to log my experience in case it might be helpful to someone else down the road -- as so many other''s posts have been helpful to me.

 

[emeraldken]

Date: 3/30/2010 1:21:43 AM
Author: dreamer_d
I would suggest that you take the diamond to a reputable *independent* appraiser near you. It costs little and it might be just that extra bit of information to help you out. The jeweler you mention has too many competing motivations -- perhaps sell you a diamond, sell you a setting etc.

That makes a lot of sense. I''ll definitely do that as well.

 

[luckyme502]

GIA Certified

1.05 ct
J VVS2
6.6 x 5.07 x 3.30 (1.30 L/W ratio)
Table 60%
Total Depth 65.1%
Girdle medium
Crown Height
Crown Angle
Pavillion Depth

Polish Excellent
Symmetry VG
Culet none
Flourescence none

These are the specs on my EC and I love it! I think it sparkles and looks awesome! I have seen many EC diamonds in my life, because they are my favorite! I also spent months looking for a great stone and ordered it sight unseen online. It has a wonderful 30 day return policy, so I wasn''t too worried. I must have called them a dozen times though.

Good luck with your search and I hope you find your perfect EC!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/30/2010 1:22:57 AM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 3/30/2010 1:18:08 AM
Author: Gypsy
I KNOW a consumer can buy a nice fancy. I''ve done it. And I''ve helped people do it.

I think a more accurate title for this thread is... can someone buy a nice fancy based on numbers alone.

DITTO.

Thritto. And my belief is that you would have to get very lucky to buy a good EC by the numbers, it isn''t impossible but so many times I have seen these shapes with good basic numbers, see it in person or an image and its a wreck - faceting off, dark, dull....

Ken, I hope you love it when it arrives and as you have looked at others and hopefully know what you like, that it matches what you are looking for!

 

[emeraldken]

Date: 3/30/2010 5:10:30 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/30/2010 1:22:57 AM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 3/30/2010 1:18:08 AM
Author: Gypsy
I KNOW a consumer can buy a nice fancy. I''ve done it. And I''ve helped people do it.

I think a more accurate title for this thread is... can someone buy a nice fancy based on numbers alone.

DITTO.

Thritto. And my belief is that you would have to get very lucky to buy a good EC by the numbers, it isn''t impossible but so many times I have seen these shapes with good basic numbers, see it in person or an image and its a wreck - faceting off, dark, dull....

Ken, I hope you love it when it arrives and as you have looked at others and hopefully know what you like, that it matches what you are looking for!

If someone can tell me how, I''ll gladly change the title to clear up the confusion. I''ve looked around, but don''t see where I have that option.

I think the suggestion to take the stone to a totally independent appraiser is the one that stands to remove most of the subjectivity from this exercise. Of course the first gate this stone has to get through is my own eye test. I feel like I can be pretty objective in this type of situation. I''m not so set on being "right" about this stone that I''ll glass over and call it anything other than what it appears to me.

One area of appearance that''s a little confusing to me is the light and dark contrasting of these step cuts. In one respect it is appealing to have that contrast -- and some stones with heavy contrast have looked good to me. However, I''m not sure what''s text book in that respect. What I''m thinking as I wait for the stone is that I really want symmetry of the contrast (ie, I don''t want to see one side with a long, dark area while the other doesn''t). Also, I don''t want the overall impression to be lots of dark. Beyond that, I''d like to see some nice, broad flashes when rolling from side to side and to/fro. My gut tells me I''ll know it when I see it.

 

[emeraldken]

Date: 3/30/2010 2:34:24 AM
Author: luckyme502
GIA Certified

1.05 ct
J VVS2
6.6 x 5.07 x 3.30 (1.30 L/W ratio)
Table 60%
Total Depth 65.1%
Girdle medium
Crown Height
Crown Angle
Pavillion Depth

Polish Excellent
Symmetry VG
Culet none
Flourescence none

These are the specs on my EC and I love it! I think it sparkles and looks awesome! I have seen many EC diamonds in my life, because they are my favorite! I also spent months looking for a great stone and ordered it sight unseen online. It has a wonderful 30 day return policy, so I wasn''t too worried. I must have called them a dozen times though.

Good luck with your search and I hope you find your perfect EC!

Very nice specs! Quite close to miine. I find it interesting how the J emeralds keep performing, despite the general position that an EC must be particularly excellent on color. Again, that''s where I feel my selection process is flawed -- I don''t get to see these nice, one-metric-off stones to consider.

Glad you like yours. I hope to be happy with mine (OK, HERS).

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/30/2010 9:22:57 AM
Author: emeraldken

Date: 3/30/2010 5:10:30 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/30/2010 1:22:57 AM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 3/30/2010 1:18:08 AM
Author: Gypsy
I KNOW a consumer can buy a nice fancy. I''ve done it. And I''ve helped people do it.

I think a more accurate title for this thread is... can someone buy a nice fancy based on numbers alone.

DITTO.

Thritto. And my belief is that you would have to get very lucky to buy a good EC by the numbers, it isn''t impossible but so many times I have seen these shapes with good basic numbers, see it in person or an image and its a wreck - faceting off, dark, dull....

Ken, I hope you love it when it arrives and as you have looked at others and hopefully know what you like, that it matches what you are looking for!

If someone can tell me how, I''ll gladly change the title to clear up the confusion. I''ve looked around, but don''t see where I have that option.

I think the suggestion to take the stone to a totally independent appraiser is the one that stands to remove most of the subjectivity from this exercise. Of course the first gate this stone has to get through is my own eye test. I feel like I can be pretty objective in this type of situation. I''m not so set on being ''right'' about this stone that I''ll glass over and call it anything other than what it appears to me.

One area of appearance that''s a little confusing to me is the light and dark contrasting of these step cuts. In one respect it is appealing to have that contrast -- and some stones with heavy contrast have looked good to me. However, I''m not sure what''s text book in that respect. What I''m thinking as I wait for the stone is that I really want symmetry of the contrast (ie, I don''t want to see one side with a long, dark area while the other doesn''t). Also, I don''t want the overall impression to be lots of dark. Beyond that, I''d like to see some nice, broad flashes when rolling from side to side and to/fro. My gut tells me I''ll know it when I see it.

Only admin can do that Ken with changing thread titles, but I wouldn''t worry if you are happy with the help you are getting!

 

[emeraldken]

I happened to be at the mall today, so I popped into a couple of jewelers. One had a max .25 ct EC. The other had up to a .5 EC. Both were in rings. Nothing special. Neither had any obvious shortcomings either.

Also got a call from another mall jeweler who had three stones (1-1.5 ct) brought in for my review. Forgot they were going to do that... I''m going to look at them tomorrow both out of courtesy and in case me estone turns out to be a dud. It will at least give me more comparison points.

 

[MrsBettyBoop]

Hey Ken, I was just wondering what were your thoughts on the diamond now that you''ve seen it?

 

[marcy]

I love EC. When I was looking I looked at quite a few before they pulled out one that got my attention. Good luck. I can''t wait to see what you get.