Terri Schiavo case

[bopitaddict]

Date: 3/30/2005 5:12

2 PM
Author: ammayernyc
Here''s a story regarding the pope''s tube vs. Terri Schiavo''s tube:


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151931,00.html

the major difference seems to me is that the pope''s is ''temporary'' and schiavo''s is permanent. one is through the nose to the stomach and one directly to the stomach through the abdomen...

both ultimately accomplishing the same thing.

anyways, back to point, it''s just a sad situation all around for schiavo.

 

[lmurden]

Date: 3/30/2005 5:12

2 PM
Author: ammayernyc
Here''s a story regarding the pope''s tube vs. Terri Schiavo''s tube:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151931,00.html

Oh no, not Fox News!

 

[lmurden]

This is about privacy. If the government can interfere in a family matter like this then what is next. I would never want to be in this situation or to have my loved one go through this. Let it go and get your estate in order! Protect yourself and your family! This media frenzy is not worth it!

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 3/30/2005 10:47:49 PM
Author: lmurden

Date: 3/30/2005 5:12

2 PM

Author: ammayernyc

Here''s a story regarding the pope''s tube vs. Terri Schiavo''s tube:


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151931,00.html

Oh no, not Fox News!

Now you know how many feel when someone links CNN...

 

[mightyred]

They have just announced Terri has passed away.

I hope she can now rest in peace and my thoughts are with her.

 

[lmurden]

Date: 3/31/2005 10

0

1 AM
Author: mightyred
They have just announced Terri has passed away.

I hope she can now rest in peace and my thoughts are with her.

I hope so too!

 

[mrssalvo]

I hope both families can let her rest in Peace and find Peace themselves.....

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 3/31/2005 10:27:20 AM
Author: mrssalvo
I hope both families can let her rest in Peace and find Peace themselves.....

Ditto.

 

[codex57]

May she rest in peace.

I dunno, while I empathize with the parents (no parent wants to lose a child), I think both sides turned into manipulative evil beings that couldn''t say a truthful word about Teri''s condition if they''re lives depended on it.

 

[Jaded Gem]

I know God is watching over Terri now. I'm just disgusted by how politics seem to overrule or infest itself in other peoples' lives. I'm not going to judge Terri's parents or her husband because I don't know what Terri would have wanted. I didn't know her, and I think it is terrible that both parties of the family are still bickering now. Somebody please give that poor woman some peace. I also find it highly ironic that when our current president was Texas' governor, George W. Bush, that he had one of the highest executions in the country; and yet his brother in Florida, Jeb Bush was fighting to keep somebody alive when he didn't know her wishes at all. Notably 152 people had perished when George Bush was governor of Texas. Don't tell me that all these people wanted to die. I also think it was stated that about nine out of the 152 people executed were presumed innocent afterwards. Yet politics is rearing its ugly head again when it comes to persons whose fate is questionable. Why don't we fight for the people who want to live on death row who may or may not be innocent? Shouldn't we give people the right to life guilty or not or even if the innocent is less than one percent of the people sentenced? Aren't we passing judgments on others when we condemn, those who can speak, to death? Isn't that also "playing God?" And then how about women who get raped and choose abortion? Or what if women choose the path of having an abortion because they don't see themselves fit to carry their fetus to term? Shouldn't they get to choose what they want to do with their bodies? Doesn't politics again rear its ugly head into our lives once again? I apologize if I seem random here or off the subject. I guess I was a little worked up from what I see as a discrepancy of our political system and/or leaders not fighting for people who have voiced their opinion to live or their opinion over their own bodies. I know I may get flamed, and I apologize if I am coming off as being rude or off the subject. I apologize if I offended anyone. I'm just speaking my mind. I think there are wolves in sheeps' clothing. I believe that humans are flawed and that nobody is perfect. There are demons in all of us, as well as, angels in us all if that makes sense. I've seen people do selfish things for their own benefit, and I've seen people do good to promote mankind and the human race. Is there a right answer to everything? No, we have our own belief systems, and I respect your decision to disagree with me. I hope you read my rant with the same respect.

 

[movie zombie]

JadedGem,

you have a right to your opinion. that''s what this country is all about.

the best thing to come out of this: awareness of the need for a living will.

the worst thing to come out of this: politicians inserting themselves into the contractual relationship [marriage] between a man and a woman.

the most hypocritcal aspect of all this: T. Delay.

btw, there are many of us who would agree with you.

peace, movie zombie

 

[lmurden]

Date: 4/1/2005 12

8:20 PM
Author: Jaded Gem
I know God is watching over Terri now. I''m just disgusted by how politics seem to overrule or infest itself in other peoples'' lives. I''m not going to judge Terri''s parents or her husband because I don''t know what Terri would have wanted. I didn''t know her, and I think it is terrible that both parties of the family are still bickering now. Somebody please give that poor woman some peace. I also find it highly ironic that when our current president was Texas'' governor, George W. Bush, that he had one of the highest executions in the country; and yet his brother in Florida, Jeb Bush was fighting to keep somebody alive when he didn''t know her wishes at all. Notably 152 people had perished when George Bush was governor of Texas. Don''t tell me that all these people wanted to die. I also think it was stated that about nine out of the 152 people executed were presumed innocent afterwards. Yet politics is rearing its ugly head again when it comes to persons whose fate is questionable. Why don''t we fight for the people who want to live on death row who may or may not be innocent? Shouldn''t we give people the right to life guilty or not or even if the innocent is less than one percent of the people sentenced? Aren''t we passing judgments on others when we condemn, those who can speak, to death? Isn''t that also ''playing God?'' And then how about women who get raped and choose abortion? Or what if women choose the path of having an abortion because they don''t see themselves fit to carry their fetus to term? Shouldn''t they get to choose what they want to do with their bodies? Doesn''t politics again rear its ugly head into our lives once again? I apologize if I seem random here or off the subject. I guess I was a little worked up from what I see as a discrepancy of our political system and/or leaders not fighting for people who have voiced their opinion to live or their opinion over their own bodies. I know I may get flamed, and I apologize if I am coming off as being rude or off the subject. I apologize if I offended anyone. I''m just speaking my mind. I think there are wolves in sheeps'' clothing. I believe that humans are flawed and that nobody is perfect. There are demons in all of us, as well as, angels in us all if that makes sense. I''ve seen people do selfish things for their own benefit, and I''ve seen people do good to promote mankind and the human race. Is there a right answer to everything? No, we have our own belief systems, and I respect your decision to disagree with me. I hope you read my rant with the same respect.

Right on!

 

[tanuki]

I will be among the multitudes dragging out their living wills in the aftermath of this case.

I know when my husband and I did the living will with my attorney a few years ago that I understood that I didn''t want to be on the respirator and I didn''t want the heroic measures but I thought "a feeding tube, that''s OK, it''s not painful and it would keep me from dying and it''s mimimally invasive so what''s the big deal".

Now. thanks to the "culture of life" I realize I need to amend the living will so that I won''t even get a feeding tube. I would hate to be stuck in some institution a vegetable for thirty years because no one could take it out once it gets put in.

But there may be a lag (as there was with my mother in law) between having a stroke and seeing what your potential for rehab will be. The feeding tube was the right thing to do in her case. The problem is that you can''t tell the future when you agree to get the tube.

I know what I would like to see put in my living will if such an event befell me is to have me evaluated by three neurologists and if they all agree that I am in a Persistent Vegetative State (like Terri Schiavo) instead of starving me slowly over two or three weeks to just give me the same respect you would give your old dog or cat and put me to sleep.

But such a request is currently illegal thanks to the "culture of life". So I''m probably not going to take the chance.

 

[lmurden]

Date: 4/1/2005 3:44:48 PM
Author: tanuki
I will be among the multitudes dragging out their living wills in the aftermath of this case.

I know when my husband and I did the living will with my attorney a few years ago that I understood that I didn''t want to be on the respirator and I didn''t want the heroic measures but I thought ''a feeding tube, that''s OK, it''s not painful and it would keep me from dying and it''s mimimally invasive so what''s the big deal''.

Now. thanks to the ''culture of life'' I realize I need to amend the living will so that I won''t even get a feeding tube. I would hate to be stuck in some institution a vegetable for thirty years because no one could take it out once it gets put in.

But there may be a lag (as there was with my mother in law) between having a stroke and seeing what your potential for rehab will be. The feeding tube was the right thing to do in her case. The problem is that you can''t tell the future when you agree to get the tube.

I know what I would like to see put in my living will if such an event befell me is to have me evaluated by three neurologists and if they all agree that I am in a Persistent Vegetative State (like Terri Schiavo) instead of starving me slowly over two or three weeks to just give me the same respect you would give your old dog or cat and put me to sleep.

But such a request is currently illegal thanks to the ''culture of life''. So I''m probably not going to take the chance.

One thing I know for sure is that I would NEVER want to be seen on tv over and over again in that state! It''s just really sad!

 

[ammayernyc]

FYI:

Autopsy: Schiavo Was Not Abused

Terri Schiavo died from dehydration and was not abused before her 1990 collapse, an autopsy report revealed Wednesday.

The report also showed there was no evidence Schiavo was given harmful drugs or other substances before her death. The severely brain-damaged woman, who was at the heart of a right-to-die battle, died March 31, 13 days after being disconnected from her feeding tube.

Jon Thogmartin the Pinellas-Pasco medical examiner, told reporters that Schiavo would not have lived after her feeding tube was removed even if she had been fed or given liquids by mouth.

"Removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed or hydrated by mouth or not," Thogmartin told reporters.

Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, had fought their son-in-law, Michael Schiavo, in court for seven years over her fate. The Schindlers also had wanted to give Terri Schiavo nutrition through her mouth after her tube was removed.

The autopsy revealed there was no conclusive evidence that Schiavo had an eating disorder. The report said Schiavo drank a lot of tea and caffeine could have led to her heart attack in 1990, which resulted in a persistent vegetative state.

"There''s nothing in her autopsy report that is inconsistent with a persistent vegetative state," said Dr. Stephen J. Nelson, a medical examiner who assisted in the autopsy.

Thogmartin also said Schiavo was blind, her brain was half its normal size and she was suffering from severe osteoporosis at the time of death.

"The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain. ... This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

The autopsy was unable to reveal much about what led to Schiavo''s collapse in 1990. Thogmartin said a review of hospital records of her collapse showed she had a diminished potassium level in her blood. But he said that did not prove she had an eating disorder, because the emergency treatment she received at the time could have affected the potassium level.

The cause of her collapse has never been definitely proven, but testimony in a 1992 civil trial indicated that she probably was suffering from an eating disorder that led to a severe chemical imbalance.

The Schindlers, though, don''t believe she had an eating disorder and have accused Michael Schiavo of abusing his wife, a charge he vehemently denied.

Speaking before the report was issued, Michael Schiavo''s attorney, George Felos, said the Schindlers continue to engage in a "smear campaign against Michael to deflect the real issues in the case, which were Terri''s wishes and her medical condition."

Bill Pellan, chief investigator for the medical examiner''s office, said Tuesday that Thogmartin reviewed police reports, medical records and other documents in trying to determine the cause of her brain damage.

During the long legal battle, numerous abuse complaints made to state social workers were ruled unfounded.

Michael Schiavo convinced the courts his wife would not want to be kept alive artificially with no hope of recovery, contending that she made statements to that effect before her collapse.

Her parents doubt she had any such end-of-life wishes and also disputed that she was in a persistent vegetative state. They believed she could get better with therapy.

 

[IrishEyes]

I wonder why she collapsed?

That is such a mystery. Can you imagine just collapsing one day and never "waking up" again? I never thought Michael Shiavo abused her, and I never thought treatment would help her. While it is very unfortunate that she went through this all, and her family, I think that removing the tube was probably the best step....

 

[lmurden]

I''m glad that the husband was vindicated of abuse. I think that it was very unfortunate that things had to play out publically on tv and that there were so many vicious allegations from people who do not know the facts other than what they see or hear on tv!

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 4/1/2005 12:08:20 PM
Author: Jaded Gem
I know God is watching over Terri now. I''m just disgusted by how politics seem to overrule or infest itself in other peoples'' lives. I''m not going to judge Terri''s parents or her husband because I don''t know what Terri would have wanted. I didn''t know her, and I think it is terrible that both parties of the family are still bickering now. Somebody please give that poor woman some peace. I also find it highly ironic that when our current president was Texas'' governor, George W. Bush, that he had one of the highest executions in the country; and yet his brother in Florida, Jeb Bush was fighting to keep somebody alive when he didn''t know her wishes at all. Notably 152 people had perished when George Bush was governor of Texas. Don''t tell me that all these people wanted to die. I also think it was stated that about nine out of the 152 people executed were presumed innocent afterwards. Yet politics is rearing its ugly head again when it comes to persons whose fate is questionable. Why don''t we fight for the people who want to live on death row who may or may not be innocent? Shouldn''t we give people the right to life guilty or not or even if the innocent is less than one percent of the people sentenced? Aren''t we passing judgments on others when we condemn, those who can speak, to death? Isn''t that also ''playing God?'' And then how about women who get raped and choose abortion? Or what if women choose the path of having an abortion because they don''t see themselves fit to carry their fetus to term? Shouldn''t they get to choose what they want to do with their bodies? Doesn''t politics again rear its ugly head into our lives once again? I apologize if I seem random here or off the subject. I guess I was a little worked up from what I see as a discrepancy of our political system and/or leaders not fighting for people who have voiced their opinion to live or their opinion over their own bodies. I know I may get flamed, and I apologize if I am coming off as being rude or off the subject. I apologize if I offended anyone. I''m just speaking my mind. I think there are wolves in sheeps'' clothing. I believe that humans are flawed and that nobody is perfect. There are demons in all of us, as well as, angels in us all if that makes sense. I''ve seen people do selfish things for their own benefit, and I''ve seen people do good to promote mankind and the human race. Is there a right answer to everything? No, we have our own belief systems, and I respect your decision to disagree with me. I hope you read my rant with the same respect.

Just wanted to comment on a coupla things. I repect your position and where you are coming from... In turn I can understand that you should respect the other side as well.

Don''t tell me that all these people wanted to die

Probably not.. neither did the people they killed.

Isn''t that also ''playing God?'' And then how about women who get raped and choose abortion? Or what if women choose the path of having an abortion because they don''t see themselves fit to carry their fetus to term? Shouldn''t they get to choose what they want to do with their bodies?

I do not think the question here should be "Isn''t that playing God?" God gave the creation.. we play God when we murder that creation.

Shouldn''t we give people the right to life

Yes.. shouldn''t we.. or does right to life only mean for the people that you choose?


Why don''t we fight for the people who want to live on death row who may or may not be innocent?

And what about the innocent victimes of the other 147? Who will stand up for them?

I do not beleive that the Government should have been involved in this case. Yet, I do beleive that Terri made her decision with her husband. I do not think he was some evil man who just wanted his wife dead. BADDDD evil man to want to move on with his life, knowing that Terri would not recover. Badd man!!!

As a parent, we are blind to anything that has to do with our children. We will refuse that we are losing them, or have lost them... we love them so much we will find hope in something that does not exsist. That is our lot.. to love so much that we fight to the death for them.

Jaded Gem: I do respect your opinion, although I do not agree.

 

[lmurden]

Date: 6/15/2005 2:38:00 PM
Author: MINE!!

Date: 4/1/2005 12:08:20 PM
Author: Jaded Gem
I know God is watching over Terri now. I''m just disgusted by how politics seem to overrule or infest itself in other peoples'' lives. I''m not going to judge Terri''s parents or her husband because I don''t know what Terri would have wanted. I didn''t know her, and I think it is terrible that both parties of the family are still bickering now. Somebody please give that poor woman some peace. I also find it highly ironic that when our current president was Texas'' governor, George W. Bush, that he had one of the highest executions in the country; and yet his brother in Florida, Jeb Bush was fighting to keep somebody alive when he didn''t know her wishes at all. Notably 152 people had perished when George Bush was governor of Texas. Don''t tell me that all these people wanted to die. I also think it was stated that about nine out of the 152 people executed were presumed innocent afterwards. Yet politics is rearing its ugly head again when it comes to persons whose fate is questionable. Why don''t we fight for the people who want to live on death row who may or may not be innocent? Shouldn''t we give people the right to life guilty or not or even if the innocent is less than one percent of the people sentenced? Aren''t we passing judgments on others when we condemn, those who can speak, to death? Isn''t that also ''playing God?'' And then how about women who get raped and choose abortion? Or what if women choose the path of having an abortion because they don''t see themselves fit to carry their fetus to term? Shouldn''t they get to choose what they want to do with their bodies? Doesn''t politics again rear its ugly head into our lives once again? I apologize if I seem random here or off the subject. I guess I was a little worked up from what I see as a discrepancy of our political system and/or leaders not fighting for people who have voiced their opinion to live or their opinion over their own bodies. I know I may get flamed, and I apologize if I am coming off as being rude or off the subject. I apologize if I offended anyone. I''m just speaking my mind. I think there are wolves in sheeps'' clothing. I believe that humans are flawed and that nobody is perfect. There are demons in all of us, as well as, angels in us all if that makes sense. I''ve seen people do selfish things for their own benefit, and I''ve seen people do good to promote mankind and the human race. Is there a right answer to everything? No, we have our own belief systems, and I respect your decision to disagree with me. I hope you read my rant with the same respect.

Just wanted to comment on a coupla things. I repect your position and where you are coming from... In turn I can understand that you should respect the other side as well.

Don''t tell me that all these people wanted to die

Probably not.. neither did the people they killed.

Isn''t that also ''playing God?'' And then how about women who get raped and choose abortion? Or what if women choose the path of having an abortion because they don''t see themselves fit to carry their fetus to term? Shouldn''t they get to choose what they want to do with their bodies?

I do not think the question here should be ''Isn''t that playing God?'' God gave the creation.. we play God when we murder that creation.

Shouldn''t we give people the right to life

Yes.. shouldn''t we.. or does right to life only mean for the people that you choose?


Why don''t we fight for the people who want to live on death row who may or may not be innocent?

And what about the innocent victimes of the other 147? Who will stand up for them?

I do not beleive that the Government should have been involved in this case. Yet, I do beleive that Terri made her decision with her husband. I do not think he was some evil man who just wanted his wife dead. BADDDD evil man to want to move on with his life, knowing that Terri would not recover. Badd man!!!

As a parent, we are blind to anything that has to do with our children. We will refuse that we are losing them, or have lost them... we love them so much we will find hope in something that does not exsist. That is our lot.. to love so much that we fight to the death for them.

Jaded Gem: I do respect your opinion, although I do not agree.

 

[blueroses]

IrishEyes, her collapse was attributed to the years of strain and damage to her system after years and years of bulimia.

 

[IrishEyes]

According to the autopsy they said they found no indication of an eating disorder.

 

[tanuki]

If her nutrition had been maintained for 15 years thru a G-Tube I can''t imagine what evidence of an eating disorder would be present at the time of her autopsy.

Particularly bulimia - frequent vomiting can damage the enamel of your teeth from the exposure to stomach acids (making your teeth look gray) but that isn''t all that frequently seen compared to the number of people around who are bulimic. I imagine if you brushed your teeth right afterwards it would minimize the exposure to acids to the teeth enough to delay or prevent this anyway.

 

[pearcrazy]

Date: 6/16/2005 11:19:15 PM
Author: IrishEyes

According to the autopsy they said they found no indication of an eating disorder.

Her heart failure was supposedly caused by an electrolyte imbalance brought on by her eating disorder. I don't see how the imbalance would be present in her system 15 years later. From what I've read, doctors 15 years ago made that conclusion based on her blood work when she was first brought in to the hospital after her heart stopped beating. I've treated several people thoughout the years with eating disorders. Only a couple of them showed the distinctive worn enamel pattern that comes with YEARS of bulemia.

Actually Tanuki, brushing the teeth immediately afterwards actually speeds up the process since the brush acts like a sandpaper disc on the acid weakened teeth.

A more telling sign in bulimics and anorexics than their teeth are soft tissue diseases that are usually not present in normal healthy young people such as yeast infections, angular chelosis (cracks in the corners of the mouth from a niacin deficiency), and a shiny bright red tongue and red bleedy gums. All of these conditions also would have resolved after 15 years with proper care in the nursing home.

 

[ammayernyc]

Good lord... leave this man alone! It''s been 15 years!

Probe Sought in Terri Schiavo 911 Call

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush asked a prosecutor Friday to investigate why Terri Schiavo collapsed 15 years ago, calling into question how long it took her husband to call 911 after he found her.

In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, Bush said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m., and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m.

''''Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay,'''' Bush wrote. ''''In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome.''''

Michael Schiavo''s attorney, George Felos, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Friday from The Associated Press. In comments in The Miami Herald, he said Terri Schiavo would not have survived if her husband had not immediately called 911.

''''It''s absolutely preposterous,'''' Felos said. ''''If he had waited 70 minutes she would have been dead.''''

Terri Schiavo died March 31 from dehydration after her feeding tube was disconnected at her husband''s request, despite unsuccessful efforts by her parents, Bush and others to keep her alive.

An autopsy released Wednesday concluded that she had been in a persistent vegetative state and revealed no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused before she collapsed.

It left unanswered the question of why Terri Schiavo''s heart stopped, cutting oxygen off from her brain. The autopsy showed she suffered irreversible brain damage and her brain had shrunk to half the normal size for her age.