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TANZANITE w/ small nick...PROBLEM need help ASAP!

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Hello all,



Calling those of you who are experts on Tanzanite: I need help ASAP!!!!! I have a problem and would really appreciate opinions.



Around the end of December I purchased a loose gem 13.42 carat cushion cut Tanzanite from a seller in Florida. We have never met (I''m in CA) but she seemed very knowledgeable /professional and I thought that she was trustworthy.



As soon as the Fedex box arrived, I opened it with her on the phone. After the first few minutes of examining the gem, I immediately noticed a small triangular nick on the face of the stone, near the window. I could see it with my naked eye, without even having to get my loupe out. I told her about it and she was surprised, saying that she had not seen a nick on it and that she examines all her merchandise very carefully. I later called my husband over and aked him: "Can you see a nick on this stone?" After looking at it from an average distance for a few seconds, he pointed it right out. So, my point is that it can be seen, and it may show up later on after the stone is set. The nick is fairly small, but when the light hits it, it is noticeable and it''s not in a place where it could be covered by the setting later.



Here is my dilemma: she offered the stone to me at $225 per carat, which is definitely a good price for the size and cut and color. I would say that the color is not the "very deisrable" blue w/ purple color, but leans more toward the purple spectrum. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the fabled "block D" color (I almost hate sayng that since the term is so widely abused in the gemstone world), I give it a 6 - 7. The stone is pretty, nicely cut and nice sparkle, other than this noticeable flaw. I agreed to purchase it, but told her that I would like to return it to her for her professional evaluation as to whether or not the flaw would affect the resale value, and also so that she could see about having it repolished. When we first talked about this stone, she said she would make me a good deal, so I was going to buy it to either keep for myself, or to have set in a pendant that I design and sell to a client later. She asserts that even with the flaw I should be able to sell it for $400-$500 per carat minimum. I am not so sure, given it''s less desirable color, plus the flaw, and seeing market prices from reputable ebay sellers for better color are running around $500-$600 per carat.



I returned it to her on 12/21. Here we are in early Feb and she still has the stone and my $3K. She has only communicated with me ONCE since Jan 1 - and that was to return one of my many phone calls / email. We completed another transaction on a Tanzanite that I bought to re-sell to a client of mine in late December, and it''s like ever since I paid her all monies owed, she is taking her leisurely time. On a side note: that transaction went okay, except that she gave me first right of refusal on the stone (a 7.23 cushion cut with BEAUTIFUL color), then went back on her word AFTER I had already showed it to my client and gotten a verbal commitment to buy, because she was also showing it to her client, and her client wanted it as well. After we went around and around, she finally agreed to send the stone to me so I could complete the sale, but changed the original price she quoted me from $650 per carat to $700!!!!! GRRRRR. But, I digress.



Back to the problem: I paid her pomptly (same day) for this flawed Tanzanite. I returned it promptly (within 48 hrs, Fedex insured). She has had it since 12/23. Allowing some extra time for the holidays to blow over, it still has taken WAY TOO LONG for her to get this wrapped up. Last I heard from her was 1/16 (she returned MY call). I finally got so concerned that I sent her a letter that she signed for on 1/30 and did not respond to. I waited another week (more than ample time to hear from her) and on Saturday, I finally called my bank and initiated a refund, as well as filed a PayPal complaint, because we completed the transaction thru PP. Total time since I returned the stone has been 7 weeks!!!!! Of course, I heard from her the NEXT day via email (and the nerve, she chastised me for not calling her instead of filing the complaint). Um, okay: YOU have MY $$ AND my gem, and I have heard from you exactly ONCE since December 30, and you are MAD at ME???? Sorry - a little venting.

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I can''t tell my hubby since he would look at me and declare me completely stupid.
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She wants to Fedex the stone back to me unpolished (b/c now she is "mad" and just wants to give me my stone back). Here''s what I need to know: in any of your knowledgeable and experienced opinions, would a nick on the front of a Tanzanite of that size devalue the stone?? If so, how much? I would not want to keep the stone if I cannot sell it for more than I paid due to this flaw - and I would expect to sell it for a nice profit, not a measly one. Of course, I would have to either find someone who can repolish it (which affects the weight), or disclose it to future clients.



I need to decide TODAY if I am going to allow her to ship the Tanzanite back to me w/ the flaw and thus cancel my refund with the bank or if I am going to hit "send" on the email that I already typed telling her to just forget the whole thing. As far as I know, she is planning to ship tomorrow.



I am attaching 3 pics - 1 from the mine, 2 that she took.



Thanks in advance for whatever help/ opinions you can give me - wish I would have thought of asking the Pricescope community earlier!



1342cushfront.jpg
 
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another of the seller''s photos - hope this one uploads better.

1342cush2.jpg
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Do you know for a fact that they are even really Tanzanite?

Im rather dismayed that you dont know your stuff more and your presenting these to clients on the word of an ebay vendor who is proving to be less than trustworthy.
 
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Trying again - I am having SERIOUS problems with my computer!!

This is a pic from the seller

1342CushionTanzaniteSide.jpg
 
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Date: 2/6/2006 5:04:26 PM
Author: strmrdr
Do you know for a fact that they are even really Tanzanite?

Im rather dismayed that you dont know your stuff more and your presenting these to clients on the word of an ebay vendor who is proving to be less than trustworthy.
Yes, the stone is certainly Tanzanite, based on my experience in the idustry - but obviously only a lab-certified appraisal can guarantee this.

I''m sorry if you read in my post that I am not knowledgeable. While I am not a certified gemologist, I have worked in the jewelry (retail) industry for years. Due to family situations, I have not been able to complete my GIA coursework (gem2300) but hopefully that will happen in the next 24 months. I will say that I know more about diamonds than Tanzanite, but I am not exactly unedcuated, either. However, I don''t feel qualified to make a judgement call on this particular flaw and there aren''t any master gemologists in the city in which I live - lots of jewelers, but after some of the appraisals and shoddy workmanship I have seen over the last few years, I don''t have confidence that they know more than I do!

I do feel stupid for trusting her to give me an honest evaluation of a stone that she is selling to me. If I had been smart, and less trusting I would have sent it out to a cert appraiser for a third party opinion. Instead, I thought we could handle it between us.

Lastly, to clarify, she is not an ebay seller, although I do watch the market on ebay just to see what various stones are selling for. Not all ebay sellers are shady, but I agree that one must view with a healthy dose of skepticism. And this stone was a purchase for ME, not a client.

Thanks for your help.
 

DiamondExpert

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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1,245
Wow! Think about it...is this someone you really want to do business with?!

She''s walking all over you, filling you so full of BS you can''t think straight, and then essentially telling you that YOU are the problem and has esentially stolen $3000 from you in the process!!

You''re being victimized before your very eyes!

I''m sure she''s got lots of other "moves" under her belt, but you shouldn''t stick around to see what they are.

Contact the attorney general''s office in the state where her business is registered, and file a complaint...even if you do get your $ back!

Don''t worry about how mad she gets...that''s her problem, not yours!!
 

LuvThatBling

Shiny_Rock
Premium
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122
I am not a tanzanite or jewelry expert, but I am an eBay seller. You made a couple of big mistakes, on the eBay end of things:

1. Pay with a credit card. You said that your bank is initiating a refund, and I think that is your best bet now. If you pay for a credit card, it is much easier to dispute the charge and you are much more likely to get your money back.

2. File a complaint with PayPal sooner, rather than later. Seven weeks is MUCH too long. You should have filed within 30 days. If it were me, I would have filed within a week of the seller''s receipt of the merchandise.

To be honest, your seller sounds horrible and I wouldn''t use them again. There are so many good, honest & ethical sellers on eBay that you shouldn''t have to deal with someone like this.
 
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Gary, LTB,

Thank you for taking the time to weigh in on my problem. It is hard to humble oneself and confess publicly that you have made some dumb choices, esp when you should know better.
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I think Gary is right - sometimes things are SO obvious, but we just don''t want to see them.. I am an honest person and it''s really important to me to be honorable in business dealings (after all, my reputation is all I have), so I never want to see it when someone else isn''t. This vendor is someone that I "met" through other industry sources and I spent months getting to know her on the phone and thru email before I ever purchased anything to test her knowledge and credibility, as well as the true quality of the stones she sells. Tanzanite that is graded "extra fine" is somewhat difficult to find, especially on a consistent basis, so you need to really make sure that your supplier is GIA certified (which she is) and genuinely understands the nature of the stone. In the area that I live in, there aren''t a lot of resources for either good gemstone/diamond suppliers or even qualified independant appraisers, so I end up having to forge relationships in other cities. I usually try to stick to the same coast, so I can at least travel there easily if need be.

That being said, I guess it''s painfully obvious that while she may know her rocks, she ain''t conducting business they way I would.



Perhaps in my ramblings, I did not make it clear that my main question was regarding the value of the stone, relative to color, size, cut, and considering the flaw that is noticeable.... not necessarily how to get my money back (I just mentioned the $$ b/c I am REALLY torqued that she has had the nerve to hold up my funds for so long). I am confident that my bank can/will take care of the refund issue, especially since I have made sure to document all our interactions relative to this purchase.

I really posted the question b/c I thought perhaps there might be some master gemologists lurking on this board and that I might be able to pick their brain(s) about the type of flaw and whether or not I should have even gone through with the sale to begin with. I have two choices: let her ship the stone back to me as-is (and obv not do business with her again), or just wash my hands of the whole thing and go through with getting a refund. Getting the stone back makes me nervous since without a cert gemologist''s opinion, I can''t be sure if the flaw materially affects it (Tanzanite is very soft, so a small nick could very well be a problem) and/or if it will hurt me later when I set it into a pendant for possible resale (this could be years down the road, as busy as I am). I guess I was just looking for a qualified opinion to validate my worries that I should can this whole thing, not only because of her lackadasical behavior, but also because this flaw might be a real problem, and without an appraisal I didn''t have much to go on.

The obviously smart thing to do (in hindsight) would have been to tell her I would pay to have it appraised, ship the darn thing out to a third party appraiser, and THEN pay her if it checked out OK; I would either have peace of mind or my money. Instead, b/c she IS a certified gemologist, I sent it back to HER to have it repolished by her lapidary guy, but once communication from her slowed to a halt, I started to realize that I am in a bad position here. DUMB! I just relaxed my guard b/c in the big scheme of things, this wasn''t a huge $$ transaction (but still) and I thought she was a trustworthy professional based on the months that I had spent getting to know her. Gary you''re right: why would I want to do business with this person in the future??

LASTLY: this is NOT - I repeat NOT - an ebay sale!!!! I am really getting beat up on that!
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Please! It already hurts enough!
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Date: 2/7/2006 2:48:08 AM
Author: strmrdr
Id contact Richard Sherwood for an opinion.
He is the appraiser I trust most when it comes to colored stones.
He will do work for the trade, some wont.

https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/profile/myprofile.asp?userID=1376
strmrdr -

Thanks much. I could use a good colored gemstone appraiser...I normally don''t get a lot of requests from clients for the colored gemstones - but lately I have had quite a few requests for Tanzanite and tourmaline and sapphires of all colors. I know their popularity has been rising in the last few years. Personally, I LOVE all types of gemstones, and can''t wait to get back on track to finish my GIA courses so I can be certified in this area.

It''s so much better to get someone on referral - less hassle on "trial and error". Have you used him personally? Just curious.

Didn''t I see a post from Richard saying that he had just lost his wife to an illness?
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Yes his wife passed on from cancer recently :{

I havent used his services myself yet but I will when I get around to buying the ruby I want.
Iv known him for a long time on here and he knows his stuff and he has many happy clients here.
Some where around here there is a thread where he talks about his background in colored stones and its impressive.

While your looking for a new source you may want to talk to Richard M.
another favorite and a good guy.
A small sample of his work is here:
http://com.pricescope.com/photos/martin_designsart_cut_gems/default.aspx
 
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Wow, that is so sad about Richard S''s wife. He seems way too young to have had to lose a wife to cancer. I know what that''s like. Watched my mother put up a valiant fight, but the cancer won in the end. It is a helpless feeling to watch it eat up someone you love. My heart goes out to him.

I will also check Richard M''s link tomorrow....

So, WHAT in the world are YOU still doing up?? I thought I was the only nut who actually sits staring at a computer screen typing in the wee hours.

Maybe later you will share more about your ruby? I LOVE them - ahhhhh the color! God really outdid Himself on that gemstone. So much history, romance and sensuality with that gem. I too would love to own a beautiful one someday...so many gemstones, so little time (and money, LOL). One of my estate brokers down in LA has a lovely 8ct star ruby ring with baguettes and pear diamonds around it - beautifully hand-made from an era long gone. Perfect star on the ruby, and wonderful color. I have been bugging him for at least a month to memo it to me so I can talk myself into buying it - but I think he''s on to me, so he keeps "forgetting". (The trick is to not buy your own product, but I am still struggling with that business advice.)

Somewhere, I have a pic of a WONDERful 12.25ct heart-shaped certified Burma ruby pendant surrounded by about 1 ct of F/G diamonds - it is amazingly beautiful! I SO wish I could add that one to my collection!! I will see if I can figure out how to post it for you tomorrow.

Okay, I am supposed to be getting up in 5 hrs to work out with a friend. I flaked on her today, so better not try any lame excuses like not getting enough sleep or she will be ticked.
 

LuvThatBling

Shiny_Rock
Premium
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122
Sorry for the confusion. I forget about all of the people who use PayPal independent of eBay. My advice still stands though about dealing with PayPal. I'm sorry that this transaction has been such an ordeal for you & I hope it is resolved quickly.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/7/2006 4:28:46 AM
Author: youknowyoureobsessed
Wow, that is so sad about Richard S''s wife. He seems way too young to have had to lose a wife to cancer. I know what that''s like. Watched my mother put up a valiant fight, but the cancer won in the end. It is a helpless feeling to watch it eat up someone you love. My heart goes out to him.

mine too


I will also check Richard M''s link tomorrow....

kewl

So, WHAT in the world are YOU still doing up?? I thought I was the only nut who actually sits staring at a computer screen typing in the wee hours.

Im a natural night owl but lately iv been sleeping in 2 hour shifts.
sleep 2 hours, play on the net for an hour then sleep some more


Maybe later you will share more about your ruby? I LOVE them - ahhhhh the color! God really outdid Himself on that gemstone. So much history, romance and sensuality with that gem. I too would love to own a beautiful one someday...so many gemstones, so little time (and money, LOL). One of my estate brokers down in LA has a lovely 8ct star ruby ring with baguettes and pear diamonds around it - beautifully hand-made from an era long gone. Perfect star on the ruby, and wonderful color. I have been bugging him for at least a month to memo it to me so I can talk myself into buying it - but I think he''s on to me, so he keeps ''forgetting''. (The trick is to not buy your own product, but I am still struggling with that business advice.)

hehehe I hear you, Im would like about a 2-3ct bright red ruby heart with strong red flourecence, Id bezel mount it and make up a box for it with a black light for use as a night light when it isnt being worn


Somewhere, I have a pic of a WONDERful 12.25ct heart-shaped certified Burma ruby pendant surrounded by about 1 ct of F/G diamonds - it is amazingly beautiful! I SO wish I could add that one to my collection!! I will see if I can figure out how to post it for you tomorrow.

yum cant wait to see it

Okay, I am supposed to be getting up in 5 hrs to work out with a friend. I flaked on her today, so better not try any lame excuses like not getting enough sleep or she will be ticked.

work out? what that hehehehehehe, iv been doing some weight lifting lately as part of my theropy for my elbow, I want to get back into it once my elbow is fixed.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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23,295
Date: 2/7/2006 8:59:07 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Hey, Obsessed is shipping me the tanzanite.


Thanks for the referral, Storm.


Can''t wait to see the stone.

kewl
Your welcome.
 
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Date: 2/7/2006 9:30:11 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/7/2006 8:59:07 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Hey, Obsessed is shipping me the tanzanite.


Thanks for the referral, Storm.


Can''t wait to see the stone.

kewl
Your welcome.
Yes, thanks Storm - loved talking to Richard, he will certainly be an asset to me and a nice guy to boot!

Sending my "problem child" out to him Monday....

Hey, I didn''t forget about the pic of the heart-shaped ruby/diamond pendant, I have just been SOoooo busy with V-day around the corner! I am also having problems with my computer - it is doing some really funky stuff to my pics. Time for a new one *sigh* I hate shopping for computers so many options it''s like buying a car only not as much fund and it ends up giving me a headache. Stay tuned - I will drop you a line when I find it and post it!!! Pray that my evil computer doesn''t crash in the meantime!
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Have a GREAT weekend, and thanks again for the advice and assistance -

P.
 
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