Take 3 (or 4) on the ‘ol Asscher hunt

[the_mother_thing]

I’ve been corresponding with David at DBL for almost two weeks about a couple of diamonds in my search for an asscher. He has been a real gem to deal with, patiently answering my questions, providing videos, ASET, etc. (and diamonds aside, he’s really a hoot to talk with on the phone). This was a far more personal approach than I’ve had with the other two vendors I’d been working with on this search, and I sincerely appreciate that!

During our discussions and browsing his site, I stumbled upon this: 1.77ct F SI1 Tycoon Cut Diamond

This diamond really caught my eye, as it seems to capture everything I love about my favorite cuts (chunky facets, fire, steps, brightness) but all in one ‘Asscher-ish’ cut. But I am really stumped by the minimal information - even on PS - about this ‘Tycoon’ cut (mind you, I’m not really a ‘brand’ person, but that’s what it’s called, so ...). Seems there are only a handful of decade+ old threads where they’re mentioned, but really no details (I suppose because they were still so new back then and I guess they don’t cut them anymore?). And I only found one other thread where someone had the cut-cornered square version (seems most of the others were more traditional elongated-Emerald shaped).

There’s not a lot of information about them anywhere it seems, so hoping others may chime in with their thoughts, especially if they’ve ever seen one of these cut-cornered square shaped tycoons before.

DBL video:

ASET images, although the diamond seems slightly tilted:


I’ll have to assess the clarity when I have it in hand later this week/weekend, but I think that’s my only concern with it at this point, as David confirmed the girdle won’t be an issue for setting. The actual and virtual facets seem to work really well together (to my eyes at least, in the video) at masking the couple of tiny crystal freckles it has.

Thoughts?

 

[Matthews1127]

I love this stone!!! Even in spite of the tilt, there is so much consistency across the stone, and the ASET looks very promising!
From the video, I wouldn’t have even known there were inclusions!!

If you’re able, @Karl_K, please do chime in!!!
Fingers crossed this is your stone, @the_mother_thing!!!!

 

[Heathcat24]

Ohhhhhh... what an interesting, AMAZING stone! SUCH a unique find! I can't wait until you see it in person! Both my hubby and I loved the video! (I said, "You MUST see this diamond!")

 

[AV_]

Stupendous play of light pattern & interesting faceting details; what more to ask for!

Then, I hear one can rename their diamonds upon purchase.

 

[Karl_K]

Disclaimer: as everyone knows I worked for DBL for a while and David and I are still friends.
I have played with a few Tycoon cuts in person and they were not my cup of tea, but that does not mean they wont be yours.
They just didn't appeal to me.
They really need to be seen in person to know if you like them because they are not like anything else.
This one seems pretty typical of them.

 

[OoohShiny]

Interesting!

The chunky faceting is cool - I'll look forward to hearing what you think of it in person!

It could be worth confirming with David if he would be happy to consign it for you - you know, worst case scenario planning, in case you changed your mind six months down the line! lol

 

[Nikki1415]

The diamond looks so cool!

 

[the_mother_thing]

Thank you so much for chiming in @Matthews1127 @Heathcat24 @AV_ @Karl_K @OoohShiny & @Nikki1415

I think one of the other things that speaks to me about this diamond is that it’s not like a ‘traditional’ asscher but it retains some asscher qualities. And the movement around the diamond ... I can’t wait to see it in person to know if that uniqueness & allure in the videos is as appreciable IRL. And I get that - much like other non-traditional shapes/cuts - some may love/not love them, and that’s okay (so long as I love it).

Karl - of the ones you’ve seen/played with, were they mostly the elongated/EC version or did you see a few cut like this one?

Here’s the only thread I could find where someone owned & posted the squared cut-corner version.

 

[OoohShiny]

Looks like there a video of an EC version of the Tycoon cut on youtube:

and even a 'Royal Tycoon Asscher', which I presume has the 3c/5p faceting of the Royal Asscher but with the rotated crown of the Tycoon cut?

To ask the question, will this purchase be a 'once and done' diamond or something that you might upgrade in the future?

I only ask because, as with all 'speciality' cuts, the market for them is (sadly) smaller, because apparently the general population want to 'follow the crowd' and only buy MRBs until the end of time so if you need to sell it to fund an upgrade, a sale may take some time, I would reckon.

Not wishing to put a downer on your potential purchase, but just to flag it up so you take it into consideration (if you haven't already)!

 

[Matthews1127]

Looks like there a video of an EC version of the Tycoon cut on youtube:

and even a 'Royal Tycoon Asscher', which I presume has the 3c/5p faceting of the Royal Asscher but with the rotated crown of the Tycoon cut?

To ask the question, will this purchase be a 'once and done' diamond or something that you might upgrade in the future?

I only ask because, as with all 'speciality' cuts, the market for them is (sadly) smaller, because apparently the general population want to 'follow the crowd' and only buy MRBs until the end of time so if you need to sell it to fund an upgrade, a sale may take some time, I would reckon.

Not wishing to put a downer on your potential purchase, but just to flag it up so you take it into consideration (if you haven't already)!

The fact that this cut was patented and created in 1999 begs the question as to why it did not become more popular, outside of the usual, “it’s not a brilliant cut diamond”.

Even the princess cut took off in the market faster and longer than the tycoon... which puzzles me.

I agree with Karl that this is definitely a cut that you either love or hate. I am in the “love” category. It’s very unique, and reminiscent of antique style faceting, with a modern twist.
I hope this thread creates some conversation, and sparks more interest in this cut. I’d love to see it join antique and vintage cut stones in their come back. The market needs more diversity!!

Perhaps, @diagem could weigh in on his opinion regarding this particular cut....???

 

[the_mother_thing]

@OoohShiny I have seen those videos; believe me, I have been combing the internet & YouTube trying to find info. I guess what I meant by the lack of info available is that there just don’t seem to be a lot of actual owner reviews/posts about them, making it hard to know the possible pluses and minuses seen in person.

To answer your question, it’s not a diamond I’d look to ‘upgrade’ down the road. And it’s not really an upgrade for my other two. I’m not an ‘upgrader’ so much as I’m a ‘side-grader’ ... I like having options, and do tend to gravitate toward unique options. It will pretty much be a matter of - when I see it - I’ll either love it or not love it; if it’s the latter, I won’t keep it. Yes, it’s possible I may want or need to sell it down the road, and if so, consignment or private sale would be an option and may even be difficult. I’ve thought about that, considering it is a unique cut and consequently, the market may be slim. But given my affection for it thus far, I think it’s worth seeing in person first to see if I love it; and if I do, that’s a risk I’ll need to accept. In my case, assuming I love/keep it, if I ever had to sell for financial reasons, I’d likely offload my more ‘mainstream’ options, as they’d be far easier to sell & replace at a later point in time.

I do appreciate you pointing these factors out, as I believe they are very important considerations with any diamond purchase, but especially a ‘non-mainstream’ choice such as this.

 

[the_mother_thing]

The fact that this cut was patented and created in 1999 begs the question as to why it did not become more popular, outside of the usual, “it’s not a brilliant cut diamond”.

Even the princess cut took off in the market faster and longer than the tycoon... which puzzles me.

I’ve thought about those same things ... I can only imagine maybe it was a combination of the price commanded at the time for the ‘brand’ and most likely a very poor marketing strategy. Personally, I think it’s a stupid and perhaps even sexist name for the cut ... and ya’ll know I’m the LAST person to play that card.

Think about it ... “Princess” seems far more appealing & marketable, as does round ‘brilliant’, and there’s a certain ‘romance’ to anything antique/old. Tycoon - IMO - frankly almost sounds sleazy/slimy (at least, that’s what/how I associate it in my head). And when you figure - especially around the early 2000s - diamonds were still largely an emotional purchase and a ‘woman’ thing (still are in most circles). But with a name like ‘Tycoon’, it seems targeted more towards men, and that doesn’t feel/seem like a good marketing strategy, especially nowadays.

Not everyone can get past those types of perceptions, even if they happen to love the cut itself. Thankfully, I don’t give a hoot what it’s called, so long as it’s sparkly, fiery, bright, etc.

ETA: To clarify, I’m not suggesting it’s a bad thing to target men with diamond marketing AT ALL! My point was just the reality that they were/maybe still are a small niche segment of the broader market, so the success would reasonably appear to be somewhat limited as a result.

 

[tyty333]

I like the cut (I think...would like to play with it in person). Its got the asscher-ish look but more chunky facets like an old cut. Very interesting.
I think the only way to really know is to see and play with it in person. So glad you ordered it. Looking forward to your opinion. Post more pics
if you can!

Edit...think of the Octavia. That's a gorgeous cut but in the real world of diamonds there are very
few out there. Doesnt mean you and others wont like it though!

 

[Matthews1127]

@OoohShiny I have seen those videos; believe me, I have been combing the internet & YouTube trying to find info. I guess what I meant by the lack of info available is that there just don’t seem to be a lot of actual owner reviews/posts about them, making it hard to know the possible pluses and minuses seen in person.

To answer your question, it’s not a diamond I’d look to ‘upgrade’ down the road. And it’s not really an upgrade for my other two. I’m not an ‘upgrader’ so much as I’m a ‘side-grader’ ... I like having options, and do tend to gravitate toward unique options. It will pretty much be a matter of - when I see it - I’ll either love it or not love it; if it’s the latter, I won’t keep it. Yes, it’s possible I may want or need to sell it down the road, and if so, consignment or private sale would be an option and may even be difficult. I’ve thought about that, considering it is a unique cut and consequently, the market may be slim. But given my affection for it thus far, I think it’s worth seeing in person first to see if I love it; and if I do, that’s a risk I’ll need to accept. In my case, assuming I love/keep it, if I ever had to sell for financial reasons, I’d likely offload my more ‘mainstream’ options, as they’d be far easier to sell & replace at a later point in time.

I do appreciate you pointing these factors out, as I believe they are very important considerations with any diamond purchase, but especially a ‘non-mainstream’ choice such as this.

If you ever decide to sell (pending purchase, of course), I would be interested in this stone. Please consider a private purchase before consignment, as this would make such an interesting, added statement to my collection. Obviously, available funds at the time would determine if I am capable, but I’d love first dibs at this rock, if you ever decide to part with it.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Thanks @Matthews1127 I will definitely keep that in mind; and yes, of course you may have dibs! (Hugs)

 

[OoohShiny]

@OoohShiny I have seen those videos; believe me, I have been combing the internet & YouTube trying to find info. I guess what I meant by the lack of info available is that there just don’t seem to be a lot of actual owner reviews/posts about them, making it hard to know the possible pluses and minuses seen in person.

To answer your question, it’s not a diamond I’d look to ‘upgrade’ down the road. And it’s not really an upgrade for my other two. I’m not an ‘upgrader’ so much as I’m a ‘side-grader’ ... I like having options, and do tend to gravitate toward unique options. It will pretty much be a matter of - when I see it - I’ll either love it or not love it; if it’s the latter, I won’t keep it. Yes, it’s possible I may want or need to sell it down the road, and if so, consignment or private sale would be an option and may even be difficult. I’ve thought about that, considering it is a unique cut and consequently, the market may be slim. But given my affection for it thus far, I think it’s worth seeing in person first to see if I love it; and if I do, that’s a risk I’ll need to accept. In my case, assuming I love/keep it, if I ever had to sell for financial reasons, I’d likely offload my more ‘mainstream’ options, as they’d be far easier to sell & replace at a later point in time.

I do appreciate you pointing these factors out, as I believe they are very important considerations with any diamond purchase, but especially a ‘non-mainstream’ choice such as this.

It sounds like you are approaching this very sensibly

I like that you are looking at it for its beauty and because you might well love it, rather than as something that could be upgraded later - I think it's pretty cool to commit to something at the risk of future loss, I think it shows a strong ethic to embracing the present and the joy it can bring, rather than worrying too much about a future that may or may not happen!

I can't wait to hear what you think of it!

 

[the_mother_thing]

It sounds like you are approaching this very sensibly

I like that you are looking at it for its beauty and because you might well love it, rather than as something that could be upgraded later - I think it's pretty cool to commit to something at the risk of future loss, I think it shows a strong ethic to embracing the present and the joy it can bring, rather than worrying too much about a future that may or may not happen!

I can't wait to hear what you think of it!

Thank you! That is exactly how I’m approaching it ... and really every jewelry purchase. It’s surely not for investment purposes, and I know I will never be a person who jumps on the proverbial upgrade train. I can’t envision any scenario in my future where I’d be comfortable sporting larger diamonds that I have now ... unless I hit the lottery, in which case I probably wouldn’t care about costs & losses so much. And tht’s not to take away from those who do want/have larger diamonds. Different strokes for different folks & all.

 

[AV_]

Digressing,

The shape of the table reminds a French cut - which begs the question - what would this look like married to French sides? (might there be some nearby at DBL)

 

[Matthews1127]

Digressing,

The shape of the table reminds a French cut - which begs the question - what would this look like married to French sides? (might there be some nearby at DBL)

My thoughts, precisely!!! This cut is reminiscent of Frenchies and the Peruzzi Cut, to me....

 

[the_mother_thing]

Digressing,
The shape of the table reminds a French cut - which begs the question - what would this look like married to French sides? (might there be some nearby at DBL)

Maybe I can show/let you know tomorrow or Saturday, as you’re reading my mind.

 

[AV_]

Maybe I can show/let you know tomorrow or Saturday, as you’re reading my mind.

Thank you very much indeed!

(if it can work out, of course)

 

[Karl_K]

Karl - of the ones you’ve seen/played with, were they mostly the elongated/EC version or did you see a few cut like this one?

Some of each.

 

[Karl_K]

DeBeers forced site holders to come up with patented cuts.
What they did is find some gemstone cuts and slap "in diamond" patents on them which was legal at the time and added a good story.
There were required to spend x amount of dollars to advertise them.
The threw so much money at them that there was advertising for a local jeweler carrying them paid for by the cutters advertising budget.
Given the market here that is nuts.

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

I love that it’s so unique and interesting!

Is it priced similarly to traditional Asschers?

Fingers crossed for you that your search is almost concluded.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I love that it’s so unique and interesting!

Is it priced similarly to traditional Asschers?

Fingers crossed for you that your search is almost concluded.

Thank you; my fingers are crossed for the same. I really hope it meets/exceeds my expectations because if it does not, I will be suspending this project for awhile, maybe till next year.

The short answer on pricing is I think ‘yes’. But pricing was a really difficult question to answer in this case, but a fair question for sure that I think I considered smartly. In the absence of finding any actual T-cut comps, I pulled a sampling of 10 traditional Asschers from an online retailer’s site that range from 1.6 - 1.9 cts, F color, and clarity grades SI2 - VS2, and I paid just below the median of that sampling (if I did my math correctly; pretty sure I did).

But it’s not fair to fully compare it to a ‘traditional’ asscher of like specs (color, clarity, etc.) because the cut is not the same, so that factors in as well. In some regards, I think that’d be like comparing Octavia pricing to ‘traditional’ Asschers, or August Vintage euro rounds to ‘traditional’ rounds. Specialty cuts command some price premium. In addition to it being a specialty cut, there also seems to be a pretty limited ‘supply’ of them, given they don’t appear to be cut anymore. I searched all over trying to find a comp, and I could not find a single T-cut diamond like this one for sale, and only 3-4 of the emerald-shape version T-cuts set in rings.

So, all things being equal ‘on paper’, even though I blew my intended budget a good bit, I think the price was still pretty good/fair if one likes/loves the cut. Only my eyes can really confirm that for me when I see it ... if I don’t love it, it wouldn’t matter if it’s priced 50% less than ‘comparable’ Asschers. If I do love it, then I think I will have done quite well for a specialty cut diamond.

We’ll see tomorrow.

 

[Karl_K]

I can tell you the ones I looked at were marked at what I thought at the time was an outrageous price.
There were certainly offered at a huge premium even considering b&m pricing.

I can't comment on current comps without over stepping.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi Karl!
Just curious- when was it that you saw these stones?

 

[Karl_K]

Hi Karl!
Just curious- when was it that you saw these stones?

Early 2000s

 

[the_mother_thing]

I only have a few minutes but wanted to share that the diamond did arrive this morning ... right before the start of a mtg, so it killed me that I had to wait to check it out.

First impressions: it’s F$%#ing amazeballs! Very lively with incredible fire flashes. The most striking thing I noted immediately was that there is a depth to the diamond that a camera (still or video) cannot capture; rather, it really must be observed with both eyes to see & appreciate. The depth is 61.6, but it looks like it is a mile deep. Mesmerizing! The other thing that immediately caught my eye was all of the lovely chunky flashes of brightness and color. It really is kinda like someone paired the chunkiness of an OEC with an asscher cut. Again, simply mesmerizing! Looking deeper at it, I love how the chunky flashes jump out while the virtual facets dance around behind them as it moves. The size is perfect and right where I wanted to be. And I love the kind of ‘contrasty’ look the diamond has when it moves. Everything about it really just plays beautifully together ... like a well-choreographed ballet of light, fire, etc. that the camera just does not capture/do justice.

Gut instinct is: this one is a keeper, though I reserve the right to continue observing it over the next few days in various light settings to see how it behaves. Today is the only day I know for sure we’re gonna have good bright sunlight, after which we have several cloudy days forecast.

The reason I feel it’s a keeper is because - funny as this sounds - I’m so overwhelmed by the first-impression performance and what my eyes see, and I am not ambivalent about what I spent for it. That 5th C (cost) is always near the top of my criteria/priorities when considering a diamond purchase, and there’s always an undefinable balance I need to strike. With the other Asschers I’d bought/seen, within moments of laying eyes on them, the first thought that ran through my head was, “That’s it? I spent $X for this?” I did not have that same reaction with this one ... even after blowing my planned budget a good bit to acquire it.

Here are a couple of quick videos taken with either my iPad Pro or iPhone, so probably not the best quality. All I can say is - IMO - this diamond performs better than any pic/video. I really believe this is a legit case of ‘seeing is believing’!

Indoors - Natural indirect lighting only (beige walls)

Indoors - Natural direct & indirect lighting w/some French cuts

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Glad this worked out for you sounds like the magical "heart flutter moment"