Tail of a princess’s girdle

[strmrdr]

Looking at this plot it looks like this diamond has a knife-edge girdle along a large portion of one side.
This prompted me to email the vendor of the diamond whiteflash.com and more specifically Lesley H and Brian and asked what the deal was with this diamond and why it made the cut for their expert selection section.

 

[strmrdr]

In reply they sent me this excellent photo essay that shows the actual details of the diamonds girdle.
It shows that the plot is not a good representation of the actual diamond.
Note that the girdle is only extremely thin on the corner.
When asked what it would be rated as if the corner wasn’t extremely thin the reply was:

"We're guessing that if the extra thin corner wasn't there the grading would be adjusted to thin - ext. thick."

 

[strmrdr]

There is disagreement among the experts here if an extremely thin girdle on any part of the girdle is acceptable.
One camp says no its not worth the risk the other says that as long as it’s a corner it can be protected well enough by the setting.
Quoting Brian from whiteflash.
“I understand that the word "extremely thin" would elicit concern, but with regards to this particular diamond the girdle is fine. The extremely thin refer to the corner and, in my opinion, this is not dangerous provided that the seat of the prong is cut correctly when setting. (please note my PROVIDING). Most chipped girdles occur from poor setting.

Now if the actual girdle itself is extremely thin then, yes, this could be a problem if the person who wears such a ring is very active.”


My non-expert take on it is that it is a very important consideration when selecting a diamond and im not sure I would be comfortable knowing it could be a problem.
There might also be insurance issues down the road.
At the very least it has to be very carefully considered.
I would be much more comfortable with a med. girdle on a princess diamond.

 

[strmrdr]

This photo and the next one shows why this diamond was selected for the expert selection section by whiteflash.

Per Brian:
"Note the images of the symmetry. The stone is square. Also note the X in the pavilion and from the crown - this shows good symmetry. I am not looking at symmetry like GIA they are grading meetpoint symmetry"

 

[strmrdr]

This one speaks for itself.

 

[strmrdr]

The sarin data for the diamond.

 

[strmrdr]

The images were provided by whiteflash.com and used with permission.

Thank you Lesley and Brian for taking the time out of your very busy day to answer my questions and prepare the photos.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hey Strm!

Thanks for sharing the information from you correspondence with Brian. He's always so wonderful to fully explain and spend time teaching about diamonds.

Personally, if I were looking for a princess cut, I wouldn't have a problem with this one. As Brian said, the thin part of the girdle would be mounted under a prong. If the mounting is done properly, there shouldn't be a problem. If the thin part were on an exposed edge, where it could get dinged, then I'd be worried.

Gorgeous IS too!! This princess should be a great performer!!

 

[verticalhorizon]

Those photos and notes were amazing! Kudos to Whiteflash.

 

[valeria101]

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On 4/19/2004 8:38:41 AM strmrdr wrote:



There is disagreement among the experts here if an extremely thin girdle on any part of the girdle is acceptable.

“ Most chipped girdles occur from poor setting. Now if the actual girdle itself is extremely thin then, yes, this could be a problem if the person who wears such a ring is very active.”

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From this, I understand that whatever issues ths stone mght have, are ging to show either during setting or wear, now that the piece got off the wheel in one piece

. So.... the disagreement among experts might well depend on whom do you ask - the cutter or the setter! The main message about this particular stone seems to be that, unlike other in the same boat ( = same words on the cert), there is a simple setting solution for this one. Just don't plan of having it reset very often

This stone does many things very well - so the one bit of extra care to have it set seems waranted. It may be prudent to avoid all "extra-thin" notes altogether - and this stone is a good example of what one would be missing...

 

[strmrdr]

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On 4/19/2004 9:53:17 AM verticalhorizon wrote:

Those photos and notes were amazing! Kudos to Whiteflash. ----------------

I agree the photos are awesome I spent over an hour studying them.
You never really see a diamond from those angles unless you loup/scope a lose diamond which not many people get the chance to do.

.....................................
fwiw I do know the difference between tale and tail my blood pepsi level was just really low this morning. It takes a while to get the level up to the required %50 by volume and lately it hasnt hit that level till noon.
But it is a nice play on the word princess I suppose :}

 

[moremoremore]

Nice light return!!!! But it makes me a little crazy....all this talk ot table less than depth.....crown height....By the #s, that looks soso. The picture tells an entirely different story! UGH!!!!

 

[strmrdr]

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On 4/19/2004 4:07:23 PM moremoremore wrote:

Nice light return!!!! But it makes me a little crazy....all this talk ot table less than depth.....crown height....By the #s, that looks soso. The picture tells an entirely different story! UGH!!!!

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Take a deap breath and back slowly slowly slowly away from the computer.
You can do it, there you go,
Now go outside and walk around the block.
Feel better?

 

[pqcollectibles]

----------------
On 4/19/2004 4:07:23 PM moremoremore wrote:

Nice light return!!!! But it makes me a little crazy....all this talk ot table less than depth.....crown height....By the #s, that looks soso. The picture tells an entirely different story! UGH!!!!

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So true, MMM. The Cut Charts only go so far with fancies and then the eye and the Ideal Scope take over.

 

[strmrdr]

btt for those that missed these great pictures.

 

[strmrdr]

The pictures here are good enough that this needs a BTT for those who havent seen them.
Thanks WF :}

 

[pyramid]

strmdr

Where did you find the first graph picture, did you have to ask for it or is that diagram shown on whiteflash diamond pages for each diamond?

 

[JohnQuixote]

Pyramid - the girdle profile is an extended Sarin option - not on every page.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Strm - One day after I came onboard with WF I had a question about princess girdle thickness and Brian had me search for this thread. Nice presentation.


Pertinent Update: As of 2005, AGS is allowing the chamfering of corners or points to improve durability. The standard is defined as follows:

"For diamonds that have sharp corners or points, e.g. princess, pear,marquise, heart, etc. chamfering is allowed to the extent that it improves durability without obviously changing the shape of the stone."

See diagram - in order not to change the diamond's shape the chamfers must be minute.

"Note: The standard was purposefully meant to be subjective."

(Copyright AGS 2005, used with permission)