Table size and impact on quality and price

[newcomer]

Hello,
I would like to understand if the following pieces for a pair of earrings are a good buy given the parameters -

1) 0.80ct, F, VVS2, 62% depth, 60% Table, Polish-Good, Symmetry-Good, Med to Thick Faceted, None Fluorescence

2) 0.80ct, F, VVS2, 62% depth, 58% Table, Polish-Good, Symmetry-Good, Med to Thick Faceted, None Fluorescence

The price I have recd is in the range of $7600. Is this a good price to pay given that the Table % is on the high end. Also, what is the negative consequence of this larger-than-ideal table size? Is this effect apparent to the naked eye?

Thanks and appreciate any feedback to help this newbie into buying quality diamonds.

 

[Giangi]

$7600!!!!!!

Oh my God, you can easily get a 1ct of the same quality but better cut (even H&A) at the same or lower price. Are you purchasing locally?

 

[valeria101]

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On 3/25/2004 4:18:57 PM newcomer wrote:



Is this a good price to pay given that the Table % is on the high end. Also, what is the negative consequence of this larger-than-ideal table size? Is this effect apparent to the naked eye?
----------------

I would note that 'ideal' measurements taken separately ('ideal table' non-ideal pavilion' etc.) make little sense. It is a combination of parameters that is "ideal", motivated by the optical effect of the diamond. Separate elemnts do not help the overall optical effect.

A pair of F-VS of near 1 ct, AGS0 would be nice for this price.

 

[moremoremore]

is there any reason you wouldn't consider a vs2 instead of a vvs2? Just wondering- you will be able to go bigger...but nothing wrong with going for 'quality' either (even though it's invisible quality!)

 

[valeria101]

As long as you know what 'invisible quality' is for an object with purely aestetic value... why not. I just mentioned VS, since there is no visual difference betwenn VVS and VS stones, upon as close inspection as you may wish.

Regardless, it may be a good idea to see what H&A stones look like before commiting to these: cut quality is also an important aspect of quality. And this one could ber visible to boot. There is no way to tell how these would compare to ideal cut stones given the info available. Would it be posible to see them aside an HOF H&A or some other high quality cut H&A ?

 

[valeria101]

Here's an easy one:

Pair of F-VVS2, ideals, 1.16 ctv. cheap

There seems to be adearth of stones with the specs you want, but you might want to take a look at the D-F, VVS-VS1 inventory at Abazias, there were a few combinations worth taking a look at. These stones do not seem to appear on the H&A serach engine, but represent an option, I guess.

 

[oldminer]

You should take all important parameters together to make any sort of judgment. An incomplete set of parameters is dangerous to use for making buying choices or assumptions about quality. We see GIA graded diamonds all the time that "might be ideal" with great table and depth, but improper, or non-ideal, crown angles or pavilion angles. It is a silent way to misrepresent a stone by omission of facts.

However, it is wrong to say we cannot break down what creates a beautiful diamond by researching and studying the various components of cut that lead to what we judge as "beauty" This is done all the time with other things of beauty and ought to be able to be done with diamonds, too. The new GIA system is going to be parameter driven, I believe, and based on extensive research they have done. If one covers all the bases of what creates the looks of a diamond, one can predict the outcome. It is a matter of how intense and complete the system will be. My own system is not nearly as heavy duty as it could possibly be, but I and many others, have found it useful. Other than direct measurement of light return, scintillation and intensity, the study of parameters are justified and part of predicting the appearance of an unseen diamond.

If you wait just a bit longer, we will be offering direct measurement of light components with the newest of equipment.
Take a look at www.imageminc.com This is something that will soon be a reality in the diamond market.

 

[hoorray]

There are a couple of .81 F vvs1 AGS000, H&A stones available through the PS search engine for about $3600 each, making your pricing seem on the high side since they are not as ideal of a cut and are VVS2.

For earrings, VVS1 or 2 is overkill unless you just want the mental knowledge of knowing they are very clean. You can easily go to SI1 and NO ONE will see the difference. No one can get close to an earring to examine it the way they can a ring, and many SI1s are eye clean anyway. Thus, you can probably get a comparable or better cut pair for less, or a larger pair for the same $$ and improve the overall look by improving the cut if you shop around.

 

[newcomer]

Giangi, thanks for your reply.

The $7600 price is for BOTH the stones. I am under the impression that it is a fair price to consider. Please comment if otherwise. Thank you.

 

[aljdewey]

Newcomer.......

In my opinion, VVS is WAAAAAAAAAY overkill for earrings. Earrings are typically viewed from 2-3 ft. away, and there is *no* way people will see inclusions at that distance.




The thing they *will* see is the sparkle and life from well-cut stones. Honestly, F is overkill too, especially on earrings. Heck, my engagement ring is a AGS0 stone....1.24 cts H, SI2 and it's WHITE and completely eye-clean.




Of course, if you WANT F, VVS, then by all means you should get it.....but I often find the reason people want that is because they've used to seeing inferior cut or inferior quality diamonds in the mall graded by lenient labs. Thus they think they have to have F, VVS in order to get "good quality" stones....and in the mall, I'd say that's probably true.




However, when you work with exceptionally cut stones graded by strict labs like AGS and GIA, the "minimum tolerances" often change greatly. My H-colored e-ring looks whiter than many "F" stones at the mall. Again, the final choice is yours, but just want you to be armed with the information that will get you great stones at a fraction of the cost.




Here is a GORGEOUS pair of G stones that I'd consider if I were the one making the purchase:




.806 Color: G Clarity: SI1 for $3,274...........5.96x6.01x3.68 Depth: 61.5% Table: 56% Crown Angle : 34.9° Pavillion Angle : 40.9° Girdle 1.2-2.0


http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=6946065

.811 Color: G Clarity: SI2 for $2,679...........5.96x6.01x3.70 Depth: 61.8% Table: 57% Crown Angle : 33.9° Pavillion Angle : 41.0° Girdle: 1.2-2.0 http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=6950883

 

[Mara]

I would never pay for VVS clarity for earrings, no one is even remotely close to your head to see the perfection.




Get F VS and it will look the same as VVS with a good cut.




Secondly, those stones are probably not going to be the best cut. I'm not sure what your priorities are but you are spending a large chunk of $$. Be sure that you are getting the BEST for your money. To me that is not VVS but rather a good combination of cut quality, color, clarity, carat.




Continue to do some research before buying. I would keep depth of the stone under 62% and table between 55-58. EX EX polish and symm or at the very least VG VG and no thick girdles. Try to get crown and pavilion angle info too.




Good luck!

 

[diamondsman]

I think that the only thing missing was the diameter on each stone?the price should be around 7000.00 for both.
VVS stones are usually not earring material, with some exceptions of course, the orient usually demands these type of stones as they symbolize purity ,thus wanting the same for their lifes .
If you would like to get bigger stones, you might want to drop to VS quality and you can search for f-g colors.
The tables on the stones should be below 60% and depth 59-62%.

 

[valeria101]

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On 3/25/2004 6:28:46 PM newcomer wrote:



I am under the impression that it is a fair price to consider. Please comment if otherwise. ----------------

Yeah. Obviously this pair is what you want and the price is not all that bad. I wish there was more info on the cut of these - since I am posting here, this shouldn't be a surprise, right? At the moment, there does not seem to be a pair of H&As with exactly these parameters listed here, so I could only guess that the current price could leave room for some premium cut quality. The numbers may not indicate a sure bet, but you are going to see them things and judge wether the high quality material has also got the high standard of treatment it deserves.

I hope your taste for jewelry has not been too much under debate so far

...

 

[newcomer]

Thanks for all the comments.

Its been a week of research that i have put into so far and am now considering VS instead of VVS for the pair of 0.75 to 0.80ct (each) earrings.

I understand the common thresholds at each level for each of the quantitative dimensions (table, crown angle, etc) BUT what I don't have a handle on is: How does the price vary as you vary these parameters. For eg, if the table % moves from 56% to a 59.5% (possibly pushing down the stone from ideal to a premium), what is the corresponding drop in price?

How do you know what is a fair/good price for a set of stones? Having visited retail stores in jewelery bazaars, malls, exclusive stores like Tiffany's, and ofcourse the internet-based wholesalers, I've noticed the price range is extremely large and hence hard to truly understand what is the right price - especially for a newcomer... This is where I personally feel that if I understood the price sensitivity to these variables, then its easier to validate/challenge the sellers point like "but the table is 57% and the culet is none giving excellent characteristics of brilliance and fire and hence our price is $500 more than what you see on the internet".

Finally, is there any superstition about badluck entailed with diamonds that has a scratch or imperfect or inclusions?? Just heard about this and would like to validate this with the experts on this forum.

Appreciate it!

 

[Mara]

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On 3/26/2004 4:36:47 PM newcomer wrote:




Finally, is there any superstition about badluck entailed with diamonds that has a scratch or imperfect or inclusions?? Just heard about this and would like to validate this with the experts on this forum.

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This made me giggle a little. ALL diamonds are imperfect. Even FLAWLESS diamonds have flaws in them. All the grade means is that it is visible under 10x mag. Flawless may take a 40x mag to see it, but it will be in there.

No diamond is perfect.

So any superstition involving bad luck for anyone who buys an imperfect diamond would include every diamond every purchased.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Would the clarity and color range for earring diamonds be a cultural quest??

As the table gets larger, the crown angle changes. That can throw a diamond from a Cut Class 1A into a Cut Class 1B or 2A. Cut is one of the 4 C's in pricing a diamond. The better quality cuts bring higher prices.

There's a nifty tool you can use to help rate the cut quality of the diamonds. Go to www.gemappraisers.com and click on the DIY Cut Grade link in the left hand tool bar. Then you enter the info on your diamond and the DIY will generate a cut grade for you. The Cut Charts will show also for more detailed information.

You can also use the Price Stats link at the top of the page. Enter your carat weight and you can view the various average price ranges for the different Cut Classes.

Part of the pricing variances you are seeing can be attributed to overhead and profit margins. For a small local jeweler, your sale might be the sale of the month. They don't stock diamonds as a rule and have to order them in "On Memo". The jeweler's cost for the diamonds is higher and since it is a large sale, the jeweler may tend to maximize their profit as well. Some places, such as Tiffany's, you are paying partly for the name. Internet Vendors operate on much lower profit margins and turn higher volumes of diamonds. They can price lower because they have lower overhead and they sell more diamonds.

 

[Giangi]

Ooops sorry, I thought they were $7,600 each. If it's 7600/pair, it's not out of the world. But you can find better deals, especially if you come down to SI 1 or SI 2 clarity.