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Table and depth question

Sopranojla

Sopranojla

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
132
Is a princess cut with a table of 75% and a depth of 71.5% too far off for the stone to have a decent cut/fire? I have read that the table %should be smaller than the depth % in order to be considered a well-cut stone. Is there any case where the numbers are as close as these are that the stone will still give off decent fire?
 
It takes more than just the table and depth consideration to figure out if it is a well cut stone. Go for an AGS0 stone to cut out the guesswork or you'll have to look at the pictures and ASET.
 
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure what an AGS0 is. Also, since I'm dealing with a jeweler in the diamond district, there are no ASET images.

Is it possible with those numbers the stone might not be a total dud? I realize seeing the stone will help, but its 2.5 hours away and the only stone my jeweler has (that I'm interested in) so I'm not sure I want to make the trip for something that isn't worth it.
 
Thank you, JulieN. How will or how do I know what AGS rating rhe diamomd falls under? This is a dealer in a little booth in te diamond district who does not have these reports available.
 
I would not buy any diamonds without a lab memo as who knows what I'll be getting. Only AGS will give such ratings to diamonds sent to them for grading. Ask the vendor / dealer to find you only princess cut stones graded by AGS which gets the AGS0 grade and your work is done.
 
Absolutely agree with Chrono. Without the proper grading reports you will have no way of knowing what you are purchasing or what you should be paying for it. As important as the lab report is, where it comes from is even more important. GIA and AGS are the most accurate and consistent in the world, however GIA doesn't grade cut on fancy shapes, which is a good reason to follow Chronos advise and look for an AGS0 princess to eliminate any further guess work.

We see thread after thread here of people who purchased a stone without lab reports or with a lab report from EGL or some obscure lab only to find out later that the diamond that was sold to them as a G VS1 is actually a K SI2. You don't want this to happen to you. Only buy with a report and with a full money back return period!
 
I'm sorry, I should have stated that the stone I am considering is a GIA stone, but like mentioned above, they do not grade cut.

That being said, I am tied into my diamond dealer exclusively because he will take back my diamond and provide credit in the amount of what was paid for my stone. This stone is what he has available and not so eager to go out and find other stones (he is a little on the older side).

Because I was seeking some choice in stones, I did contact another diamond dealer in the area that friend's of ours use, but he would not take my stone as trade, but consignment (so to speak), which means I will lose money on the stone. I suppose some sort of compromise will have to be made as to this issue of table/depth% and I am kind of torn. I will just go and look at the stone in person and make up my mind that way.
 
Table and depth will tell you next to nothing about the cut of the stone. Two princess cut stones can both have small tables and good depth but one can be a sparkler while the other a dog. There are so many more facets and angles to consider that are not listed on the lab memo and these in combination is what affects how sparkly it is.
 
Chrono, you are right so I think viewing it is the next logical step. I did a search on PS for a princess and I found some Signature Ideal cuts where the table is slightly larger than the depth (similar to the one I listed), so maybe there is hope for my potential stone. Thanks for your help!
 
And herein lies the "problem":
1. You are driving 2.5 hours to see a single diamond, which might end up a dud (aka waste of time). Your chance of it being ideal cut is slim. Most diamonds sold are of very poor to average cut. Pricescope is a small niche in the diamond market which is why it is so much easier to find extremely well cut diamonds at the select vendors that are often recommended.
2. Can you see a diamond and tell if it is well cut, average, or a dud? Are your eyes well trained enough to see the difference without any tools? I once thought I was good enough (sans tools) and it turned out that I was only looking at a slightly above average cut stone.
3. Here's an example of the risk of buying fancy cut stones purely by the numbers. I will use James Allen as an example since I love looking at emerald cut stones. Even when I eliminate several tens to hundreds of stones by the depth and table size, and GIA graded only ECs, I only found 2 or 3 top performers within a wide carat weight, colour and clarity range after looking at each individual picture and video of the diamond (down to around 30 stones or so). This task is not so easy as you think.
 
1). I'm driving to NYC to spend the day with a friend and visit some fun places and, while I'm there, I'm going to swing into my diamond guy to see what he has.

2). I spoke with him yesterday and he does have a few other stones (not princess) that I would like to see as well. While I am obviously not a professional nor do I have a professinal eye, I do have an ASET which I will bring and use. I will also take the knowledge that I learn here (my reason for posting) and I'll do the best I can with what I've got both informationally and finacially.

3). No one is carving in stone the fact that I will come home with a diamond the day I go; it may take a few more calls and trips to the city. And, as stated before, due to financial reasons, he is my only real choice for purchasing a new diamond so whatever I get will have to come from him.
 
Your expectations are realistic. Have fun and enjoy the day!
 
Apologies if you've already answered this...but can your jeweler not call in a few more stones for you to view? I would think it would be very easy for him considering that he is in the diamond district. Having a few stones to compare side by side and with ASET will help you make a better and more informed decision.

Enjoy your day and good luck! =)
 
Christina, I am with you on that sentiment!! You would think that he would do that for me...and I have asked him to do i, toot. But every time I request that, he launches into a spiel about all the other stones in his inventory. Im not sure if its because he is older and perhaps winding down in the induarty or what.

The other dealer I called (he would take my stone on consignment not trade like the jeweler mentioned above) is willing and able to get me a few stones to see. I'd much rather that, but with consignment, my budget will be blown. But, just to gain experience and not miss a possible opportunity (you never know!) I'm going to still see him when I go, too.
 
Because if he sells the stones from his inventory, he is getting more liquidity since financially, he has tied up his funds with what he currently holds. Basically, he is pushing you to get something he already has, hoping that by promising to take your stone in at your original cost, you will be reluctant to look elsewhere.
 
Sopranojla said:
Is a princess cut with a table of 75% and a depth of 71.5% too far off for the stone to have a decent cut/fire? I have read that the table %should be smaller than the depth % in order to be considered a well-cut stone. Is there any case where the numbers are as close as these are that the stone will still give off decent fire?
Click to expand...

Table 75% is most likely not the most firey or bright stone, doesn't matter what the depth is that indicates a short crown.
Theoretically you can have a bright princess with no crown at all, but in practice 99.9% of stones are not great with large tables.

The reason why it is repeated so often here that you can't judge a fancy by the numbers is that there will always be someone who has niche taste or trying to validate the "bargain" they got so even the outlier stones have a "chance" of being acceptable to someone especially if they haven't seen finer makes.
 
I am learning that the reality on my end is that I do not have the budget for what I would like (Signature ideal in the carat range I need), so compromise is something that I have to weigh out in terms of the 4Cs.
 
Chrono--you make a good point. I am going to look elsewhere and if the margin of loss isn't too great (one can only hope for a miracle!!), I will strongly consider buying from someone other than him. I'm trying to keep my options open and not take a huge loss.
 
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