Suspicious - piece of mind required.

[stephen]

I visited a respected local jeweller recently who showed me several diamonds. One stone in particular caught my eye and I learnt that it was 1.87 carats, colour H/I, clarity VVS1 and brilliant cut. I negotiated a price of £4,800 (7,515 USD) however, I insisted that the stone be graded. Prior to being dispatched it was noticed that the stone (which was secondhand and had been bought from an estate)had been slightly damaged. An additional £150 ($235)was charged to repair the damage.

Today I received a fax from the jeweller attaching a copy of the British Gemmological Institute Certificate. Their findings were:
Weight: (after repair) 1.75 CT
Colour: 8 (K)
Clarity: A5 (VS2)
Shape & Cut: Round Antique Cut
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Measurements - 7.56mm x 7.72mm x 4.81mm
Proportions:
Crown Height: 18.32%
Pavilion Depth: 38.35%
Table Width: 45.94%
Girdle: Medium Faceted
Cutlet: Small
Fluorescence: Medium
Comments: None

I am can normally spot it when someone is trying to take advantage, however, the chap I talking to is part of a respected family that has been in the town for many many years. Nevertheless, it concerns me that he never noticed the diamond was damaged (albeit slightly)and his opinion of the colour and clarity were significantly out. He is not willing to negotiate on price as the stone has already been entered in to the Bonhams Auction and he remains confident that he will get his price. He is not proposing to enter the diamond with its certificate.

Does the diamond still represent good value? I am disappointed that I am not getting the deal I thought I was but I am still willing to proceed if considered approriated.

Many Thanks - Stephen

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

I am can normally spot it when someone is trying to take advantage, however, the chap I talking to is part of a respected family that has been in the town for many many years. Nevertheless, it concerns me that he never noticed the diamond was damaged (albeit slightly)and his opinion of the colour and clarity were significantly out. He is not willing to negotiate on price as the stone has already been entered in to the Bonhams Auction and he remains confident that he will get his price. He is not proposing to enter the diamond with its certificate.

STEPHEN-INTERESTING STORY. I WOULD STRONGLY CONSIDER THAT YOU GO WITH YOUR GUT ON HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT YOUR TRANSACTION SO FAR WITH THIS DEALER.A COLOR GRADE UP OR DOWN IS ONE THING BUT H/I TO K. tHAT'S 2-3 GRADES DIFFERENT. ALSO THIS INDIVIDUALS INTENT ON ENTERING THE STONE INTO AUCTION WITHOUT THE GRADING REPORT GIVES HIM THE ADVANTAGE OF MISREPRESENTING THE STONE BECAUSE THERE IS NO DOCUMENTATION. FOR THE STATS YOU POSTED YOU CAN DO BETTER ON PROPORTIONS COMPARED TO PRICE. KEEP IN MIND TOO THAT THIS DIAMOND IS OF A DIFFERENT CUTTING STYLE AND YOU CAN GET A BETTER STONE WITH MORE SPARKLE AND BETTER COLOR WHICH MIGHT FALL INTO A SIMILIAR PRICE RANGE. I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT PURCHASE FROM THIS INDIVIDUAL.

-JOSH RIOUX
SITKA, ALASKA

Does the diamond still represent good value? I am disappointed that I am not getting the deal I thought I was but I am still willing to proceed if considered approriated.

Many Thanks - Stephen

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Hi Stephen. There's a couple extenuating factors regarding the pricing here.

First, you're in Great Britain, and from my experience diamonds and jewelry in general tend to cost more there than in the US. Secondly, you're purchasing from a "bricks & mortar" jeweler, who has a higher cost of doing business than internet dealers, with a resulting higher markup.

Keeping those factors in cosideration, I would say the price is "fair". Not the deal of the decade, but he's not hosing you either.

I'd feel a little more comfortable if he were willing to give you a bit of a break, considering the history of the transaction.

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Diamond Specs: Stone1 Stone2 Stone3
Ct Weight 1.73 1.73 1.73
Color K K K
Calarity VS2 VS2 VS2
Depth 58.8% 62.8% 60.6%
Table 55% 55% 57%
Lab GIA GIA GIA
Polish Very-Good Very-Good Good
Symettry Very-Good Very-Good Good
Measurements 7.87x7.91x4.64 7.66x7.72x4.83 7.76x7.86x4.73

Price: $5748 $6750 $7266

Stephen-I did a price search on pricescope. Keep in mind also that these stones have better specs and proportions than the one you listed. Rich is right but why settle for fair when you can get a better cut stone at a comparative price with a GIA cert? You have many more options available...

Take-er easy-

Josh Rioux
Sitka, Alaska

 

[stephen]

Thanks for responding.

I'll give it a miss.

Stephen

 

[Rank Amateur]

H to K is quite a jump and would make me wonder about other exaggerations. Maybe he'll tell you the setting is 18K when it's really 14k.

 

[Mara]

This is a disturbing experience to say the least. Not only was the jeweler misrepresenting the stone, but once you got the certificate and found out that the stone was not what he said...he is not willing to negotiate or even recognize that he was wrong it sounds like. Esp since you said that he will sell the stone via auction and get his asking price and is NOT planning on notifying anyone that the cert you got says differently. That's shady. If he were reputable, he'd own up to the mistake and adjust his price AND the specs on the stone accordingly for either you or a future buyer. Not try a new selling tactic without disclosure of the new findings.

Run from this one, and use what you have learned to be more savvy next time. At least you caught onto this BEFORE you purchase and had the stone for 5 years and had no recourse to fix the problem. Good luck!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

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I'll give it a miss.
-----------

I've heard the expression "I'll give it a go", but never the expression "I'll give it a miss".

What's that mean? That you're going to "pass" on it?

Josh is making some good points about the options available to you. There's no reason that you couldn't order a diamond in from an internet company. There's several ultra-reliable, high-standard companies right here on this forum that could send you a diamond that would knock your socks off.

I have to admit I don't care much for the sound of this jeweler. The part that really gets me is withholding information. That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[stephen]

On 4/5/2003 11:47

3 PM Richard Sherwood wrote:

-----------
I'll give it a miss.
-----------

I've heard the expression "I'll give it a go", but never the expression "I'll give it a miss"

What's that mean? That you're going to "pass" on it?
____________________

Exactly. I have seen the term used elsewhere, although from your comment I guess the saying must be largely unique to the British.

Your query reminds me of a visit to the States. My aunt had lent me her car and during one trip another motorist was seeking acknowledgement that he could pull out in front of me. Aware of different driving practices I asked my passenger whether I should "flash him". In England this means to briefly shine your headlights, which implies consent. My passenger (assured that I clearly had no intention of exposing myself on a public highway or anywhere else for that matter) couldn't stop laughing.

Once again, thank you all for your comments.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Hahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DiehardSearcher]

Maybe pointing out the obvious, but the price comparisons Josh gave you were for Round Brilliant Cuts I believe. The stone you are asking about is a Round Antique Cut.

I do not know whether this make's Josh's examples more or less relevant, but they are not apples-to-apples.