Survey

[Hest88]

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On 6/27/2003 1:40:16 PM LawGem wrote:
What many of us ARE against is the MISTAKEN notion that Tiffany's diamonds are 1) cut by them, and therefore (2) are of better quality than can be obtained elsewhere.
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Yep. I never have problem with someone saying, "I'm buying from Tiffany because I admit I love the blue box and the Tiffany name, even though I know I can get a better deal elsewhere." (I buy certain name brands purely because I'm attached to the name myself.) Truth is, though, that most ppl out there know as much about diamonds as any mall customer, and think the name Tiffany automatically means they're buying the best.

 

[mike04456]

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On 6/27/2003 2:19:11 PM aljdewey wrote:

It's been asserted that Tiffany's setting is made by Vatche, and others have noted that while it is rumored, it's unsubstantiated by documentation. Same thing for me on the Lucida.

Out of curiosity, LawGem, are you aware of any such documentation?

----------------

Indeed I am. They hold U.S. Patents 6,363,745 and D463,315 on the Lucida:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,363,745.WKU.&OS=PN/6,363,745&RS=PN/6,363,745

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=D463,315.WKU.&OS=PN/D463,315&RS=PN/D463,315

The first is for the specific facet arrangement, the second is for the overall design.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 6/27/2003 11:12:35 AM Paul Varjak wrote:

Actually, they manufacture over half of thier own jewelery in six manufacturing plants around the world, and will be producing about 75% in coming years with the new Rhode Island facility now on line. They have proprietary design agreements with Picasso, Peretti and Schulmberger as well as other inhouse designers and craftsman.

Source: WR Hambrecht & Co Research Report

----------------

That simply is not true. They are a retailer. The peretti stuff is farmed out & she owns the design. They sign there name to the silver - yet, their archives are full of touchmarks which denote, gorham, etc. Heck, this dopey glass vase I received as a wedding gift (20 years ago) from Tiffany was made in Poland (not known for their exceptional quality glass).

This information is from years of handling Tiffany & Co. (*not* to be confused w/ Tiffany Studios) items. In the first part of the century, Tiffany & Co. indeed made & designed many jewelry items. They had one holloware line that was deemed "Special Hand Work" which was all hand-crafted. The majority of their silver was not manufactured by them even back then. As the years went on less & less design & crafting was done at Tiffany's.

If you want to pay more for the name, so be it. Better quality *can* be found elsewhere.

 

[Mara]

Nice eye LawGem...tease!

I agree entirely, Hest!! The ignorance is what bothers me about the whole brand name discussion. If someone does the research, knows the ins and outs, and still makes the decision, great!! When Kayla bought her pretty wedding band from Tiffany instead of WF....we all agreed it looks darn nice. But she did the research and made the educated choice, what was right for her. I don't think anyone disputes that. It's the 'they wouldn't have such a great rep if they didn't have only the best stuff' that drives me nuts, esp since I have seen 61% tabled Tiffany stones, not exactly AGS 0 (though nothing wrong with a larger tabled stone!). Plus being in marketing, I know the power of a strongly built brand name--it can work wonders for the reputation of a company and the sales!

 

[wayne_227]

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On 6/24/2003 1:06:53 PM icey wrote:

What says 'i love you' more Tiffany or Cartier e-rings?If you're gonna go on about how expensive they are, save your time...----------------

Man, some of your are really dense... Did you even read the original post? "If you're gonna go on about how expensive they are, save your time..." Helllooooo???? Half the replies I read on here talked about saving money. Sheesh.

Instead of saving money for a better honeymoon or your kids college, how about working a little harder and getting a higher paying job so you can afford both?

The question was simple, but let's see if I can make it more simple. Q: If every other jeweler on the planet were shut down, and the only two left were Tiffany and Cartier, which of those two, and only those two, do you think would say 'I love you' more?

 

[Griffin]

"Red box" or "Blue box"? How 'bout the same ring with a better quality stone and still more than enough money left over to decide "red car" or "blue car"....

If someone is more caught up in the "name" than the ring, I'd say it's a good warning that they are too superficial to want to propose to in the first place. Run.

 

[Griffin]

>Q: If every other jeweler on the planet were shut down, and the only two left were Tiffany and Cartier, which of those two, and only those two, do you think would say 'I love you' more?<

Which says I love you more?

Obviously, to your way of thinking, the one that is the most expensive clearly means the most love.

I repeat my sentiments about shallow people. Don't get married, get sterilized. Or does Tiffany's not offer that service?

 

[Obsessed]

someone is more caught up in the "name" than the ring, I'd say it's a good warning that they are too superficial to want to propose to in the first place. Run.

That phrase offends me. My 'soon to be Fiance' really loves the Tiffany Lucida. She was born into a poor family, but has since studied, and worked herself into a good middle class living, supporting her parents and less fortunate siblings. Never has she splurged on such indulgences as LV handbags, BMWs, nor even B.Republic clothing that's not on sale. Although she is modest, she grew up admiring the Tiffany e-rings. Call it marketing success, but does that make her shallow? I am gonna get the little blue box and make her dream come true. I would have to say that most girls don't dream about GIA certs. Plus i did a poll with female co-workers, classmates, etc, and found out the following:

1) 40% would be torn between a bigger/better stone vs Tiffany.

 

[sumi]

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On 2/8/2004 6:38:14 PM Tkimmba wrote:

Never has she splurged on such indulgences as LV handbags, BMWs, nor even B.Republic clothing that's not on sale. ----------------​

TOTALLY off topic, but......BR sure does have a great sale rack though! I usually go straight to the sales rack in the back and then work my way toward the front of the store.

It's a little something I got used to during my starving student law school days.​

 

[Obsessed]

continued...

2) 90% said a tiffany ring would make them very happy.
3) 10% said Tiffany is too expensive(although they would not complain if given one)
4) and a few said "will you be my BF" or "do you have a brother?"

You can't deny the intangible value that Tiffany brand has. I wonder how many of you would think that BMWs and Mercedes are waste of money. You can get that $25K Kia with all the stuff thats in a benz and save $20K, right?

 

[Obsessed]

TOTALLY off topic, but......BR sure does have a great sale rack though! I usually go straight to the sales rack in the back and then work my way toward the front of the store. It's a little something I got used to during my starving student law school days.

No, not off topic. I was trying to make a point that someone who does not brand worship, CAN think that a Tiffany ring is special. I apologize if you felt that I was criticizing someone for paying full price at BR or buying a BMW. I am one of those people too, so 'its all good.'

 

[wayne_227]

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On 6/27/2003 2:51:04 PM LawGem wrote:

----------------
On 6/27/2003 2:19:11 PM aljdewey wrote:

It's been asserted that Tiffany's setting is made by Vatche, and others have noted that while it is rumored, it's unsubstantiated by documentation. Same thing for me on the Lucida.

Out of curiosity, LawGem, are you aware of any such documentation?

----------------

Indeed I am. They hold U.S. Patents 6,363,745 and D463,315 on the Lucida:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,363,745.WKU.&OS=PN/6,363,745&RS=PN/6,363,745

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=D463,315.WKU.&OS=PN/D463,315&RS=PN/D463,315

The first is for the specific facet arrangement, the second is for the overall design.

----------------

Please clarify your point here. Both of those patents are owned by Tiffany & Co. So this would verify that it is NOT made by Vatche?

 

[wayne_227]

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On 2/8/2004 6:45:43 PM Tkimmba wrote:

continued...

2) 90% said a tiffany ring would make them very happy.
3) 10% said Tiffany is too expensive(although they would not complain if given one)
4) and a few said 'will you be my BF' or 'do you have a brother?'

You can't deny the intangible value that Tiffany brand has. I wonder how many of you would think that BMWs and Mercedes are waste of money. You can get that $25K Kia with all the stuff thats in a benz and save $20K, right? ----------------

Right on!!! Nothing speaks better than a good 'ol survey. I think you're right on with your comments TKim. Don't let these people bother you. They are just Tiffany-haters. Nothing you say will change their minds. But it's fun to prove them wrong.

 

[Griffin]

>I wonder how many of you would think that BMWs and Mercedes are waste of money. You can get that $25K Kia with all the stuff thats in a benz and save $20K, right?<

Faulty logic. Theres a qualitative difference between a Kia and a BMW. There you pay more for quality. Quality is not the issue, name is.

A more accurate analogy would be this;

You can buy a BMW at a "generic" BMW dealership for $60,000
- or -
You can buy the same BMW with a "Tiffany's" keychain from Tiffany's storefront for only $350,000

You also assume we are all just jealous, wanting the name but too poor to afford it and bitter about it.
Maybe the reason I have been able afford things like a BMW is that I'm just not stupid enough to buy diamonds at Tiffany's.

 

[Obsessed]

ybe the reason I have been able afford things like a BMW is that I'm just not stupid enough to buy diamonds at Tiffany's.

I was stupid enought to buy a Tiffany diamond for my fiance. But I still have a BMW, my fiance an Audi. I just sacrificed by forgoing the sports package which more than makes up for the Tiffany premium. I am sure you know that an armrest on some BMW is optional.... Why not buy an Audi, which has alot more standard equipment? Don't say performance is better on a BMW cuz you probably don't drive well enough to benefit from it anyways. Panache is the real answer. Tiffany has plenty of that over generics. I can't believe you buy yourself a BMW, but won't pay extra for a once in a lifetime purchase for the woman you love? I retract that statement if you're talking about casual diamond shopping.

 

[Obsessed]

blockquote>You can buy a BMW at a "generic" BMW dealership for $60,000
- or -
You can buy the same BMW with a "Tiffany's" keychain from Tiffany's storefront for only $350,000


Poor Analogy... you must have scored a 400 on the SAT verbal.

 

[Griffin]

Actually, a very appropriate analogy.

Repetitively insulting peoples intelligence and competence are poor substitutes for logic. If you lack the capacity for rational thought or debate please refrain from posting.

 

[sumi]

come ON guys! this AGAIN?

Nobody's changing anyone's opinion and this thread has just come down to personal attacks (from both sides). Let's just let this thread sink to the bottom where it belongs. (Yes, I realize the irony is that by posting, I've bumped it up)

 

[Obsessed]

To Sumi & Griffin

Ok Ok.... I apologize. I just love how emotional people get in these Tiffany forums. I am just kidding about the SAT insult. To make thing better I will admit to the following: I had doubts about my Tiffany purchase. I bargained like crazy when i bought my car and other significant purchases and would have loved to have found a great deal on a e-ring. But in the end, I did it for my fiance. It was just not pleasant hearing that a girl is "shallow" and "unworthy of proposing to" for reacting differently to a Tiffany ring than another. Many of you regulars have to realize that some of us are droppin in on these forums for the first time and probably the last time after the whole engagement thing passes. Like myself, alot of guys want compellings reasons to try to save money, find a better diamond, etc, but also want reassurance when the ring has to be branded(only because the particular women in their lives love them). Anyways, I got that assurance that my choice was right from many of you. Even the heated arguments were informative in a unique way. Thanks all!

 

[Nicrez]

Damn right Sumi!

As for BMW's... My family is an absolute Beemer fam. We know the quality, engineering and feel of a beemer blindfolded. My boyfriend HAD a BMW, but sold it, so he could get me a nicer ring and save for wedding/home/kids, etc... It was a sweet 7 series, fully loaded to the hilt!

I would NOT buy an Audi over a BMW, it is not even a comparison. No. Audi has wonderful cars, and I give them credit for some styling but to compare them is ludicrous! Just like comparing a Tiffany's Lucida band and a Vatche. No. Tiffany's diamond however, is subject to comparison based on price, color and clarity. Since there are no close generic "cuts" like the Lucida (Lucere is somewhat close), the Lucida STONE has it's own category.

I walked into Tiffany's with the man to find my colorless, VVS1 2ct stone I wanted. He swore after months of hardcore searching for a similar look, we should just go to the source. Tiffany's only had G's and H's to show me at twice the price. TO US, it was NOT worth the price. Like some people don't know how to appreciate german engineering, and tightness, so they are happy with something else. It's called preference and use, and NO ONE can dictate or argue anyone else's.

So now I don't have a BMW, or a Tiffany's ring (although my promise ring and many other items ARE from Tiffany's). Am I sad? No. I WILL have a nice house and more money in the bank for little ones when they arrive at that schooling age. It's called priority, and at our young ages, I am damned proud to say give me that any day over marketing and branding.

And my choice, I like Tiffany's over Cartier, because their styling is too severe and less feminine. Plus the added benefit of bragging rights, as everyone else knows Tiffany's.

Fashion terms: It's like getting a Alexander McQueen gown versus a "Alexander McQueen for" Givenchy gown. The Givenchy name lends itself a larger price tag, although the designer is EXACTLY the SAME GUY!

"Can't we ALL just get along?!" - Rodney King

 

[festivities]

Hi ICey,

I think letting her pick out the ring herself (either brand) says "I love you" more than the ring makrer.

Just my two cents.

 

[blanquita]

Date: 6/27/2003 2:53:46 PM
Author: fire&ice

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That simply is not true. They are a retailer. The peretti stuff is farmed out & she owns the design. They sign there name to the silver - yet, their archives are full of touchmarks which denote, gorham, etc. Heck, this dopey glass vase I received as a wedding gift (20 years ago) from Tiffany was made in Poland (not known for their exceptional quality glass).

This information is from years of handling Tiffany & Co. (*not* to be confused w/ Tiffany Studios) items. In the first part of the century, Tiffany & Co. indeed made & designed many jewelry items. They had one holloware line that was deemed ''Special Hand Work'' which was all hand-crafted. The majority of their silver was not manufactured by them even back then. As the years went on less & less design & crafting was done at Tiffany''s.

I don''t think you read what Paul had pasted from Tifany''s 10k, nor do I think (even with years of experience) you know what you are talking about.

The quote stated that " Ms. Peretti and Ms. Picasso retain ownership of copyrights for their designs and of their trademarks and exercise approval rights" Of course Peretti owns the design, it''s simple stated, no one is arguing that. The pieces are "farmed out", as you so eloquenty put it, to keep up with demand. I know for a fact her pieces are made in Spain, a choice Peretti wanted & demanded and Tiffany complied w/ her wishes. The majority of Tiffany silver jewelry is manufactured in Rhode Island. All their high-end jewelry (gold w/ stones, schlumberger, fancy stones, etc) are all set in New York or at their facility in New Jersey. They have all their smiths there. And yes, I agree that they do not cut their own stones. Although, did anyone get a chance to see that uncut diamond they had in their blue book? Wow, the possiblities!

Second, of course their silver from the mid-1800s isn''t stamped "Tiffany", they wern''t silver manufacturers yet! All their silver came from England, but ALL silver holloware and flatware came from England. That''s where everyone did their shopping back then!!! Nobody wanted "American" silver, they wanted the "name brands" that all the European aristocrates had! Tiffany didn''t even make it''s first flatware pattern until 1870. This "special hand work" label is new to me (I''m a dealer), never heard of it. Anything that is stamped "Tiffany & Co. Makers" is made by their silversmiths and are considered "collectable", the rest is made for them (by vendors that are exclusive to them, meaning they are contacted to produce only for them). However, only silver holloware snobs would really care.

As far as getting a vase from Tiffany''s 20 yrs ago marked "Poland", I''m suprised considering Tiffany just started manufacturing their own crystal 10 yrs ago. Before they only carried Bacarrat, Val St. lambert, Reidel, Orefors, and Lalique. No place even close to Poland. However, now they carry mostly their own brand of crystal and a majority of it is made in some random country, like Poland (even Germany!), but I think it''s because they just found a manufacturer who can make a nice piece cheap for them. They are, after all, a publicly traded company! Gotta keep those Ops expenses down and make the shareholders happy!

All in all, I don''t think they have done too bad for a company that started out as a stationery manufacturer!

Sorry for getting off the subject, but it does seem to happen quite a bit on here. By the way, I love the "legacy" rings at Tiffanys....

 

[diagem]

I think they are both great Jewelry Companies...

Tiffany is a little more mass-produced than Cartier, buth both their QC are considered high!!!

When it comes to one-of-a-kind jewelry, I would give Cartier a better rating for the Gems they can offer..., as far as the metal works I would give Tiffany the higher rating.

But for e rings i assume they are pretty equall!!!

 

[valeria101]

Wait a minute... this thread is rather old ... 2004

 

[lornajs]

Neither says "I love you" more, but there is something special about getting a piece of jewellery from Cartier or Tiffany''s. More so from Cartier (but that may be because Tiffany''s pieces are so widely copied. In Hong Kong - where I live - Tiffany''s style stuff is everywhere, including fake pieces (fashion jewellery) for bargain basement prices.
Cartier, in my opinion, has some wonderful, unique design pieces . Pieces of jewellery that will become modern classics over time.
Having said that, I''d never buy a solataire or traditional type ring from Cartier. These types of pieces are over-priced and easily replicated / copied.

 

[pricescope]

Blanquita, welcome to the forum.

 

[aljdewey]

Blanquita, welcome to PS.

One of the things you''ll find helpful as you peruse the archives: the date of the posts located in the bottom right hand corner of each post.

As you can see, this thread has been dormant for nearly two years. Half of the participants aren''t even here anymore.

The post you replied to (by Fire&Ice) is nearly a full three years old.

You might find it more enjoyable to peruse the current threads where discussions are active and lively.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/9/2006 2:51:01 AM
Author: blanquita

Date: 6/27/2003 2:53:46 PM
Author: fire&ice

----------------


That simply is not true. They are a retailer. The peretti stuff is farmed out & she owns the design. They sign there name to the silver - yet, their archives are full of touchmarks which denote, gorham, etc. Heck, this dopey glass vase I received as a wedding gift (20 years ago) from Tiffany was made in Poland (not known for their exceptional quality glass).

This information is from years of handling Tiffany & Co. (*not* to be confused w/ Tiffany Studios) items. In the first part of the century, Tiffany & Co. indeed made & designed many jewelry items. They had one holloware line that was deemed ''Special Hand Work'' which was all hand-crafted. The majority of their silver was not manufactured by them even back then. As the years went on less & less design & crafting was done at Tiffany''s.

I don''t think you read what Paul had pasted from Tifany''s 10k, nor do I think (even with years of experience) you know what you are talking about.

The quote stated that '' Ms. Peretti and Ms. Picasso retain ownership of copyrights for their designs and of their trademarks and exercise approval rights'' Of course Peretti owns the design, it''s simple stated, no one is arguing that. The pieces are ''farmed out'', as you so eloquenty put it, to keep up with demand. I know for a fact her pieces are made in Spain, a choice Peretti wanted & demanded and Tiffany complied w/ her wishes. The majority of Tiffany silver jewelry is manufactured in Rhode Island. All their high-end jewelry (gold w/ stones, schlumberger, fancy stones, etc) are all set in New York or at their facility in New Jersey. They have all their smiths there. And yes, I agree that they do not cut their own stones. Although, did anyone get a chance to see that uncut diamond they had in their blue book? Wow, the possiblities!

Second, of course their silver from the mid-1800s isn''t stamped ''Tiffany'', they wern''t silver manufacturers yet! All their silver came from England, but ALL silver holloware and flatware came from England. That''s where everyone did their shopping back then!!! Nobody wanted ''American'' silver, they wanted the ''name brands'' that all the European aristocrates had! Tiffany didn''t even make it''s first flatware pattern until 1870. This ''special hand work'' label is new to me (I''m a dealer), never heard of it. Anything that is stamped ''Tiffany & Co. Makers'' is made by their silversmiths and are considered ''collectable'', the rest is made for them (by vendors that are exclusive to them, meaning they are contacted to produce only for them). However, only silver holloware snobs would really care.

As far as getting a vase from Tiffany''s 20 yrs ago marked ''Poland'', I''m suprised considering Tiffany just started manufacturing their own crystal 10 yrs ago. Before they only carried Bacarrat, Val St. lambert, Reidel, Orefors, and Lalique. No place even close to Poland. However, now they carry mostly their own brand of crystal and a majority of it is made in some random country, like Poland (even Germany!), but I think it''s because they just found a manufacturer who can make a nice piece cheap for them. They are, after all, a publicly traded company! Gotta keep those Ops expenses down and make the shareholders happy!

All in all, I don''t think they have done too bad for a company that started out as a stationery manufacturer!

Sorry for getting off the subject, but it does seem to happen quite a bit on here. By the way, I love the ''legacy'' rings at Tiffanys....

I suppose it is you that should read my post. I stand behind everything I said. Where did I say anything about the mid 1800''s - clearly you have no idea when the Arts & Crafts Movement began and ended. And, very surprised you say you are a dealer and have never heard of "Special Handwork" line. Save the aesthetict movement stuff - (made by Gorham) & any one of a kind commision work - it''s the most prized & most expensive. There were PLENTY of silver manufacturers in the next 1/2 of the 1800''s & the first part of this century - Gorham (founded in 1831 - started full scale manufacturing around 1861), Whiting, Durbin, Kerr - which by the way the later three were aquired by Gorham around 1907....the list goes on and on. That is where Tiffany & Co. *bought* their silver from to sell in their store. You are incorrect that all of our silver came from England. American silver manufacturers were alive & well. I don''t know where you get the information that they made their own silver (cept commissions, special hand work & a few other items). And, they weren''t made by others who were only to do work for Tiffany. Gorham happily made items stamped with their hallmark. They happily made items for Tiffany - yes, some exclusively - some not. Receipts from those companies are out there to prove it.

Also funny that you are questioning the Tiffany Vase marked Poland - 22 years ago. My time line is something I would remember. I received the vase AS A WEDDING GIFT. Yeah, you are right - I have no idea when that would have been.

The vase is still here in our house w/ the Poland mark. They have to put the mark as import rule.

Oh, and I own a Perriti heart belt. It is clearly marked w/ Italian hallmarks.

And, this dopey thread is 2-3 years old. I just visited the 5th ave store in November. I certainly didn''t see many items manufactured by Tiffany. I didn''t see any of their own glass. Just some artist commmisions , and murano & swedish manufacturer''s w/ some pretty bad tourist stuff mixed in.

Do they make some of their own stuff (especially gold/platinum) in their own *manufacturing* plant? Did they make some incredible hand work over the years? Do they have talent in hiring "commisioned" designers? Sure - but the majority of items they sell are not made by them. Makes them a retailer. Heck, they were owned by Avon at one point.

Oh, and one other thing - they didn''t begin life as a stationary store. They began life as a small country store - which one of the items they stocked happened to be stationary. They sold a mirage of STUFF. They began life as a retailer. It wasn''t until 1850 that their focus shifted to selling silver & jewelry. American silver was alive and well.