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Surface area vs. carat weight: which matters more?

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tmitchell

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
11
Ladies...when you ask for a specific carat size, is that likely because you want to make sure a diamond looks "big enough"?

Why do I ask? My girlfriend and I have been dating since college (about 4 1/2 years now). The other day she (casually) mentioned how she is easy to buy for and really just wants a princess or radiant around 1.5 ct. From my own research, this seems HUGE (and expensive). I think anything about 1 ct would look more than "big enough". I respect that she wants something that wont get lost on her size 7.5 finger, but have a sense she is mesmerized by carat and doesn't understand that size is what really matters. Not to mention that fire and brilliance ought to be at the top of the list as well.

So, given my budget (around 5k), should I aim for maximizing surface area? Should I go for an excellent/ vg cut J or K?
She's never mentioned the other 3 C's and I'm sure I know more about diamonds at this point than she does...not to mention it's on my tab.
Any advice of tactic is appreciated. How can I let her know it's not all about ct weight??
 
I don't want to put words in her mouth but if she actually knew what well-cut 1.5ct stones cost something tells me she'd dial back expectations. I don't know if you can get away with spending "just" 5K, but you can get a well-cut diamond in the H-I color range with eye clean SI1 clarity in the $4-5,000 range. What you'd then do is find a setting that gives you some extra spread as far as finger coverage. Halo style settings are very popular for that sort of thing, if you're into them. Personally though, I don't think anything .75ct or larger will get "lost" on a size 7.5 finger. I slipped on my future fiance's size 9 ring with a .94ct AVC in a solitaire style setting on my size 11 hands (as far as it would go, anyway) and the diamond looked pretty sizable. Not huge or WOWZA or anything, but realy nice. I would just make sure you don't skimp on cut. When the cut isn't great, then size matters a lot more because it looks like most other diamonds out there. When the cut is awesome, by the time a would-be hand inspector gets close enough to check out the goods then the resulting fireworks show will be more than enough to impress.
 
Send her here ;))
 
yeah, she probably just doesn't know that much about cost/diamonds. Or...she might really prefer a dead, lifeless large stone to a smaller well cut one...perhaps you can show her some videos of diamonds, or take her browsing?
 
I'd wager most people don't have any idea that different carat weights and face up size aren't the same thing. My sister does this all the time, when one of her friends got engaged, she's told me, "It's a round, about the same size as your ring." But mine is a half carat square radiant, so that means their stone is probably more like a third of a carat since rounds face up bigger than square cuts. Any chance your girlfriend would like an oval or pear? They face up bigger than other cuts and cost less per carat than other cuts. :naughty:
 
Assuming multiple diamonds are all great cuts with great performance, as a girl, I'd care more about visual surface area. Make it look bigger! My friend has a princess cut that is 1 carat, but since it faces up smaller compared to a round brilliant, her close girlfriends ask her "Are you SURE that's a 1 carat?" which I think is rude :( But this is something I definitely noticed. Same thing happened to my other friend who has a 2 carat radiant cut. Other girlfriends (who typically have round brilliants), would ask if it was smaller than 2 carats... :shock:
 
That's exactly what I'm thinking. I mean, when have you heard of someone proposing and then the girl says, "wait, excuse me, I must examine the carat weight first"...As long as it looks big and shiny and bright, that's what's going to matter (I hope).
 
Troublesome question.
If someone doesn't know any better and just wants a 1 ct then weight matters more.
If someone doesn't know any better and just wants a face up diameter of 6mm then that matters more.

But more important, both of these priorities ignores cut quality.
Good cut results in a diamond (of any weight or surface area) giving a better light show, being more beautiful, and looking brighter and larger.

If you took the weight vs. surface area trade off to the extreme imagine wasting a huge 200 carat rough diamond to polish it into a 1 carat diamond that was cut to be as flat and as thin as paper.
It would face up HUUUUUGE for the 1-carat, probably larger than a quarter. :naughty:
But it would not put on any light show, or have a desirable pattern, or any pattern at all. ;(
To get a pleasing pattern with good optical properties that result the best light show a diamond must have depth and complex facet angles.

On the other hand, to get the best light show a diamond must be cut with light performance as the priority, rather than ending up as heavy as possible or having any particular surface area (face up diameter).
Good cut means grinding away more rough, which is one reason well-cut diamonds usually cost more.
 
Surface area (actually face up area), carat weight, and good cut are related.
If the face up size is too high or low for the carat weight then the cut is bad.

This is an oversimplification when you get closer to the optimum face up size for weight but is more true when you get far away from the optimum face up for weight.
It is a quick way to weed out the most poorly cut diamonds, very shallow and very deep.

But also keep in mind a diamond having optimum face up for that weight is not a guarantee of good cut since the girdle may have been place too high or low, or the facets themselves could be out of place.
 
She is, most likely, concerned about SURFACE AREA.

Case in point: My g/f was gaga over a stone at her local jeweler. She even sent me a pic staying 'WOW, can you believe this is only 2 carats?!?!?!?!' If you search my forum posts, I've posted pictures of this stone, and it is agreed that it is a HUGE 2 carat stone (2.02 to be exact). It measures 8.46 x 7.63 to be exact.

She was QUITE happy with this size, and I was budgeting in the 2.5 ct range anyway. After MUCH shopping around, and learning loads here on PS, I discovered that this stone was cut very shallow (53% depth). I ended up with a stone that was much deeper, thus much better light performance, and it is a 2.43 ct. Similar surface area (8.5x7.5), but 68% depth vs 53%.

She wanted surface area, plain and simple. Hopefully it is what she wants!
 
I'm on going to disagree. I don't think anyone's comments are correct when applied to your lady as none of us ARE your lady.

Here's the fact... you need to talk to her. Square cuts face up at 5.5-5.8 at a carat. Rounds (which cost more per carat) face up at 6.5. So to get the same look as a one carat round you DO need 1.5 carats.

For all we know she was told this and remembers it and what she wants is the surface area... and knows the corresponding carat weight is the way to get it.

Look...before I knew what diamonds cost I wanted a bigger stone too. My husband told me our budget and we went to research what we could get. When I learned that cut is what matters and understood that having a well cut smaller stone is better FOR ME than a larger poorly cut stone... the decision was easy.

But THE POINT IS that my husband didn't assume I had no clue. He treated me like the adult ... the partner I am and told me HEY THIS IS WHAT I CAN AFFORD, and allowed me to reset my expectations accordingly.

It seems to me you are embarrassed by your budget ( which you shouldn't be) and are trying to make yourself feel better by assuming she's ignorant so you can justify ignoring what she has said. That is rotten and immature. If she is you partner then treat her that way. Tell her your budget and bring her here... so both of you are equally informed and can make a very adult decision together.
 
madelise|1323892906|3081575 said:
Sorry to intrude but, this is much better than a J or K, and isn't quite 1.5 YET, but the side stones take care of covering up the whole finger ;)

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.c...incess-Cut/20398235_SDc2jp#1614170906_TZpx4dN

it's the 2nd one here:
http://jewelsbyericagrace.com/modern_and_estate_jewelry_page_2
Click to expand...
WHOA. At first glance that seems like EXACTLY what he should buy in this situation. Geez. That sounds like a steal. Didn't look at the cert though. Is it Clarity Enhanced?


ETA: It's even the right size!!!!! :appl:
 
I'm going to agree both with Gypsy and the JBEG recommendation.

I think you need to ask her and not assume that she doesn't know what 1.5 carats looks like. More likely, she doesn't know what your budget is or what 1.5 carats COSTS.If you expect something in particular and get something else, it could be disappointing- it could also feel bad coming from your loved one who couldn't just be straight with you about one of the biggest purchases in your life so far. Many girls can look at a diamond and give an approximate size but can't give a dollar value since that depends on much more than the size. I would take her to a few jewelry stores, but be prepared to tell her that a well-cut 1.5 carat radiant might be out of budget in a jewelry store and perhaps look at other shapes that face up larger (oval, pear). I think second-hand may be your best bet to make her happy and stay within budget -
The recommended stone from jewelsbyericagrace looks nice. I didn't see anything about being clarity enhanced...? Did I miss it?
 
I've known a lot of girls/women who make an internal determination as to what their boyfriend SHOULD spend on the ring, based on the old 2 months salary "rule".

So it's very possible that she DOES know how much a 1.5 ct stone costs & thinks that's within grasp. Despite your internal or external calculation of what's affordable/what you want to spend on it.

Does she know your yearly salary? I have a sneaking suspicion that if you divide that # by 12 & times x 2 .... it's gonna add up to 1.5 ct. range. Food for thought.
 
After Gypsy's post, I'll absolutely agree with her. Thus is the perspective you get from differing genders. If your g/f is into picking out her diamond, and will simply let the event itself be the surprise, involve her as much as possible.

Decode makes a quite valid point. That is a terrible 'rule' created by the marketing geniuses that invented this whole tradition to begin with. Do I feel guilty for not adhering to it (spending less), not at all. Further, you can save yourself half or more by being educated here at PS. I can tell you that I spent less than 50% of the cost of the ring my g/f picked out at her local jeweler, and I not only sourced a better (and bigger) stone, but have it in a nicer, better made setting, all thanks to the knowledge gleaned here.
 
decodelighted|1323898651|3081640 said:
madelise|1323892906|3081575 said:
Sorry to intrude but, this is much better than a J or K, and isn't quite 1.5 YET, but the side stones take care of covering up the whole finger ;)

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.c...incess-Cut/20398235_SDc2jp#1614170906_TZpx4dN

it's the 2nd one here:
http://jewelsbyericagrace.com/modern_and_estate_jewelry_page_2
Click to expand...
WHOA. At first glance that seems like EXACTLY what he should buy in this situation. Geez. That sounds like a steal. Didn't look at the cert though. Is it Clarity Enhanced?


ETA: It's even the right size!!!!! :appl:
Click to expand...

nope there's no indication it's CE. and since i believe it's illegal to advertise a diamond w/o mentioning it's clarity enhanced, and since JBEG is very reputable, i think they're spot on and it just so happens to be a very fitted ring for what the OP has needed, and a GREAT deal! crazy i happened to run into this thread while trolling JBEG :twirl:

the size thing is just a ridiculous coincidence! lol! i think it might be a sign ;) jk.

the setting isn't a personal preference, but with the $ you save on that center stone, you can always reset it. and from previous experience of contacting JBEG, they're very helpful with things like switching settings and such. :)

HTH!! and GOOD LUCK!
 
Thanks for all the replies! I'm happy to report that I've negotiated to "anything about 1 ct" because "1 ct just looks 'sad'". Hah. I'm not sure I agree with that but I can definitely get something good with 5K now (or even less!)
 
You could consider getting a halo setting which will greatly enhance the size. I do think a 1 ct. princess will look a little small on that size finger. It is just sad that prices are so high right now. I would definitely consider the JBEG rings...much more for your money. Wait until you price settings. If the $5000 includes the setting, you will need to consider second hand.
 
Can anyone recommend a good place to look for something second hand (other than JBEG)? If I could get a good deal on a center stone, I'd want to have it reset to eliminate any "bad vibes"...
 
LJL|1323899539|3081655 said:
More likely, she doesn't know what your budget is or what 1.5 carats COSTS.If you expect something in particular and get something else, it could be disappointing- it could also feel bad coming from your loved one who couldn't just be straight with you about one of the biggest purchases in your life so far.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. In what area of the country are you located? Perhaps we can give suggests on stores you can visit.
 
tmitchell|1323964665|3082167 said:
Can anyone recommend a good place to look for something second hand (other than JBEG)? If I could get a good deal on a center stone, I'd want to have it reset to eliminate any "bad vibes"...
Click to expand...

Well, a lot of people sell on a site called Diamond Bistro, but I might not feel comfortable buying from anyone other than a member here. We can list jewelry we are selling on the Pre-loved forum and link it to either DB or ebay listings, etc. I think it is preferable to buy through someone like JBEG since there is an established reputation and a return policy, personally.
 
Shopping in the Washington, DC area.
 
www.oakgem.com

and

www.doverjewelry.com

Two of my favorite sites for secondhand shopping. OakGem I've never heard anything negative about: Dover tends to be a little more hit or miss (some people have gotten AMAZING deals from them - I believe one member bought a Graff ring for, like, pennies on the dollar ... and some have had to return because the specs were nothing like advertised ... which is also doable, as they have a good return policy).
 
tmitchell|1323970191|3082226 said:
Has anyone ordered a lower color from JA? I saw a J in a store the other day--it sparkled beautifully and I really had to look closely to notice. I think something like this would be perfect:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1406636.asp
Click to expand...

a lower color from JA will be the same as a lower color from any other vendor. however that princess looks dull and lifeless to me.

the 'sparkle' is due to the cut, not the color. you can have a beautifully cut J that will sparkle! do you know if she is sensitive to color? if she cares mostly about size then going down to J might be a good idea
 
a lower color from JA will be the same as a lower color from any other vendor. however that princess looks dull and lifeless to me.
Click to expand...

Just curious, but how can you tell just by looking online?
 
look at the picture...it doesn't look very bright.
 
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