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Suggestions on this SI2?

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soonerice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
24
Putting cut and color above all else, here is a nice sized SI2 I found for what seems like a good price?

GIA
1.23 ctw
RD Brilliant
E Color
SI2 Clarity
61.3 Depth
57.0 Table
Very Good Polish
Very Good Symmetry
34.0 Crown Angle
41.0 Pavillion Angle
6.89x6.94x4.24 Dimensions
Price: $4400

A good price? For me it has to be great to buy something I can''t see!!!! Thanks for the help!!!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
The price is excellent and the HCA scores it a 1.4 TIC with EX EX VG VG I believe.

I would try to see if you can get a closeup of the stone and map out the inclusions. SI2's can be tricky even with GIA grading. If it's already been done and you feel comfortable with it, great!!

Good luck
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Sounds a very nice stone. Just make sure that the inclusions aren't too visible... You could ask for magnified pics or at least a verbal description...
 

TheDiamondangel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
239
It sounds great, just make sure it's eyeclean. I've seen an oval SI2 that showed carbon specks in a magnified picture, but in person you couldn't see them. A stone like that needs to be seen in person before making the final decision. If it looks good, that's a great buy.
 

soonerice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
24
I just looked at the GIA report and the only thing it has are two small circles (next to each other) slightly inward from the edge. The report states these are "feathers" and that "pinpoints may not be shown". Any idea what this means? I tried to upload the image of the cert but I got an error message. Thanks......
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Pinpoints are microscopic and weren't worth plotting.

Size and position of the feathers is going to be important. They could be almost, if not totally "invisible" or they could be obvious and/or affect the performance of the diamond. Definitely a consideration with feathers. Are they near the surface or deep inside the diamond? Do they run with the facets or across them?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Get some closeups of the stone and then also get a picture of the stone with unmagnified (e.g regular pic) so that you can view the regular pic first to see if you can even see anything...if not then that's a great sign. Then pick them out from the mag'd pictures to know where they are and see if you feel comfortable with them.

It may be that the inclusions are set near to facets or against them which sometimes let the sparkle hide them. White inclusions are better than dark, as white can usually be hidden by sparkle while dark usually shows up very visibly as a bit blob in the stone. Find out which inclusions you have and try to get those pics
 

soonerice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
24
Here is the GIA report. I don't know if this helps or not. I will keep working on those pictures. Thanks again everyone!!


diamond_post2.gif
 

soonerice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
24
What color is a crystal? See GIA report above. This seems like a stupid question but does this mean it is a white inclusion? Also, I keep hearing different things. What exactly does SI2 mean? Are you supposed to be able to see any inclusions without a 10X loupe or not? Thanks again...
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
A crystal can be white or dark..you have to find out.

The plot looks pretty clean, but for the big crystal. For an SI2 you should be able to find the inclusions easily under 10x mag and you MAY even be able to see them with your naked eye. That's the nature of the SI grading..you can find a really clean SI1/SI2 or a really messy one that is borderline I1! If the crystal is white and set along or near a facet, you may not even really see it due to the diamond's sparkle.

Some people when buying online tend to err on the side of caution and only look at VS2 or similar stones so that they feel more comfortable with the clarity when buying site unseen. When we were looking, we were viewing a stone online that was SI1 and the plot looked a little messy. They couldn't get me a closeup of the stone, so we passed. You have NO IDEA what that stone looks like, to me a closeup goes a long way in clearing it up in your mind. Also a regular pic shows you what it looks like without the mag.

In person we saw an SI1 that was extremely clean but for a dark crystal under the pavilion. It bothered me, we didn't get it.

Again, get closeups of the diamond and a regular diamond image. Find out about the crystal's color.

Good luck.
 

soonerice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
24
Any other comments on this certificate? These things seem tricky to read. This diamond is very appealing to me even as an SI2. The color, CUT, size, and price are good to me. The only thing are those two crystal inclusions that make this an SI2!! This is a hard decision. I haven't been able to get any pics (this is a dealers site). The price is $4200 (I believe). By the way, this is the diamond I am looking to but in that Jack Kelege designer setting.
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
1,160
----------------
On 6/19/2003 5:21:14 PM soonerice wrote:

Any other comments on this certificate?
----------------
Well, like every one is saying (loudly), you just gotta see the stone. For instance, the plot symbol for the natural is pretty darned big; maybe that's a huge eyesore grade-setting inclusion on the backside of the stone mainly, but it's really clean otherwise. Or on the opposite end of the spectrum, the innocuous 'pinpoints not shown' could turn out to be 'completely filled with pinpoints'. The crystals could be completely transparent to the naked eye, or they could be big old boogers. Given the wide range of possibilities with an SI2, ya just don't know until you see it. Ante up the shipping charges (not too bad on that guy) and have your dealer of choice check it out for you.

Edited to add: interesting priorities, the $4K stone in the $4K setting, cool. I think too many folks emphasize the stone way too much over the setting, and that the stuff up on the Klege website looks pretty cool (thanks for the link over on the other thread, Hest88 ), although a little bit "antiquey" for me personally. Gonna get you some of those fancy vivid yellow sidestones they show to go with it?
 

soonerice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
24
The setting is very important!! We saw this setting and both agreed it was the best we had seen. I really like the "antique" look. The hard part now is finding the center stone at a good price. Here is my other option, (I have posted this previously).

Diamond #2

Round Brilliant
Lab AGS
Weight 1.04
Color G
Clarity SI1
Depth 59.1
Table 57
Crown 35
Pavillion 40.8
Polish Ideal
Symmetry Ideal
Fluorescence Medium Blue
Dimensions 6.54x6.58x3.99

Cost $4600

It won't let me upload the cert for some reason......
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
It's a tossup. The difference in size will be noticeable. Which is more important,clarity or ctw?

Also...you can't really make an educated decision without those pix. It's so hard to tell from a cert if something is eye clean. That big crystal could be white or hidden by sparkle. Or it could be dark and really dab smack in the middle.

No cert on the SI1? Why not keep shopping around? You are spending a nice chunk of change here. For $5k you can get an excellent stone from an online vendor with more info than the ones you are considering, that's for sure!

Good luck...
 

soonerice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
24
I went into a local jewelery store to get some info on a setting. I described the diamond I was looking at and told them the GIA report was clean (for an SI2) except for a crystal. I asked him his opinion of the stone. He said that every "crystal" in a diamond he has seen has been clear or nearly colorless, but never a dark color. Is he wrong??
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Wrong or right...who knows...but one of the handful of stones I have seen in person..the SI1 we looked at had a big dark crystal that was visible when I turned it at a certain angle. Did you ask him to show you some SI1's and SI2's in his stock? Have you seen any SI1 or SI2's at all in person???
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
All crystals he has seen have been white or colorless???!!
Then he's **really** lucky! Maybe he doesn't know that 'carbon spots' are crystals?
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
-----------
He said that every "crystal" in a diamond he has
seen has been clear or nearly colorless, but never a
dark color. Is he wrong??
-----------

The clear or nearly colorless crystals are usually other small diamond crystals within the host diamond, just oriented in a different direction, causing them to show up.

The dark crystals are other minerals which have crystallized inside the diamond as it was forming. People call this "carbon", when they are really mineral crystals of one sort or another.

Garnet is a common example of a dark included crystal in diamond.
 

soonerice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
24
I have seen three SI2's and two SI1's. To me the SI1's and two of the three SI2's were great (without a loupe). The third SI2 had some visible carbon spots but they were not that bad. I am interested and concerned in this SI2 because the diamond is fairly clean EXCEPT for those two crystals. The one looks fairly large but it almost looks like it is on a facet. I am now working on getting a visual description of the inclusions and find out more about the return policy. I really like this stone mainly because the CUT and the price are hard to beat!!
 
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