ammayernyc
Brilliant_Rock
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Suggestions for "The Talk:
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njc
Brilliant_Rock
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I like to think that me and FI have been very rational about our relationship. We talked early of marriage (i still remember every detail of when HE first brought it up). After college we ended up returning home to different states. It was hard being long distance, but we each knew what we wanted in the end, marriage. So we got our first jobs, saved a little money, added some experience to the resume. Little over a year later he found a job in my state and he moved. A couple months later i found a new job in his city and i moved. We each had money, good jobs and were back in the same area. Stable.
Now this whole time we have continued to talk about marriage and rings and what not. After the whole TV-ill-have-issues thing, which really is about all i said and there was no discussion (see thread amm posted above), i tried to explain my comment later by saying:
"We've always talked marriage. We've both gotten good jobs. We're geographically together again. We've looked at rings. What are we waiting for now?"
He had no reasons to wait, i had no reasons to wait. Explaining things that way seemed to make the "a-ha light" go off in his brain. It wasnt that i was nagging, it just seemed like the next logical step.
Maybe something similar would work for you? Like, we've been through a lot together, we've looked at rings, we've talked about X,Y,Z, what are we waiting for? Maybe his "a-ha light" will go off too.
Now this whole time we have continued to talk about marriage and rings and what not. After the whole TV-ill-have-issues thing, which really is about all i said and there was no discussion (see thread amm posted above), i tried to explain my comment later by saying:
"We've always talked marriage. We've both gotten good jobs. We're geographically together again. We've looked at rings. What are we waiting for now?"
He had no reasons to wait, i had no reasons to wait. Explaining things that way seemed to make the "a-ha light" go off in his brain. It wasnt that i was nagging, it just seemed like the next logical step.
Maybe something similar would work for you? Like, we've been through a lot together, we've looked at rings, we've talked about X,Y,Z, what are we waiting for? Maybe his "a-ha light" will go off too.
Buena Girl
Brilliant_Rock
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My b/f also tends to be a non-talker about emotional subjects like this. I don''t know if this is the best way to go about it, but what we did was have a few short, directly to the point conversations.
info: we''ve been dating @ 3 years, I had some family issues going on in my life the first year we were dating, I had some health problems the second year we were dating, plus we work together at a high stress office, so basically he has seen all of my highs and lows and has definitely seen me at my lowest
In the past, b/f had talked about a house, dog, etc., but never marriage or e-rings. So, I finally had a talk with him about our relationship and how committed we are, we''ve been there for each other, we''ve seen each others high and lows, how do we see our future, blah, blah, blah.. Obviously, I was too subtle. Hints fly right over his head.
The next talk (a few weeks later), I finally decided to ask him point blank if he wanted to propose to me and/or if it was something he had been thinking of doing. IMPORTANT: This is what really works best for his personality. To some people it might sound like pressuring, but in our situation direct questions always work best. His answer was yes and he didn''t understand why I didn''t already realize it. I said because you''ve never told it to me. Since he hates talking about emotional stuff and all that I guess he thought guys can just give off a vibe that lets girls know exactly how they feel ?!? Boys
Next talk (a few more weeks later), I ask when are we going to look at/discuss rings. I explain that I''m 28 and would really like to get things moving. For me, I really would like to be married by 30. There are a lot of reasons why I want to be married by 30, many of which I do not feel comfortable sharing on an open forum, so please no one jump on me about it. It''s not "just a number" to me. During this conversation, he told me some stuff that I''m glad I know. It helps me understand his position even more. And they are things that he would not have randomly told me.
Anyway, for me it worked to be direct and to the point. Ammayernyc, I wish you the best of luck for when you have talk with your b/f!!!
Buena Girl
Brilliant_Rock
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Oh, and I forgot to add that he says he now understands my position better because I listed off my concerns. I think it is similar to what njc said about being logical and what next step should logiacally happen. And if you make a valid point for why something should happen by a certain time or take priority over something else.
AChiOAlumna
Brilliant_Rock
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Directness is a good thing...bluntness can feel overwhelming and put others on the defensive.
If you state what you need without any intonation that you expect your partner to fulfill all those needs, then s/he can respond with what they are capable of fulfilling. At least it''ll give you an opportunity to see what he can provide you versus what you expect. If those expectations match up, then you''re on your way! If not...then you can make a fair assessment of what you need to do at that time!
If you state what you need without any intonation that you expect your partner to fulfill all those needs, then s/he can respond with what they are capable of fulfilling. At least it''ll give you an opportunity to see what he can provide you versus what you expect. If those expectations match up, then you''re on your way! If not...then you can make a fair assessment of what you need to do at that time!
sparkling
Rough_Rock
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Amanda,
My heart goes out to you; I have been in your shoes. Here''s what I would say.
I am very interested in getting married to you. In order to plan a wedding we''ll need to be engaged. I would like to do this by date X . If there''s some reservations you have about moving forward, please let me know so we can resolve them or figure out if they aren''t resolveable. See what he says. Then if there''s no forward progress I''d go a step further and say, Marriage is very important to me. If we aren''t engaged by date X, around X (the start of the school year) or before such and such event (engaged can mean he''s asked, not that he''s produced a ring) I will need to "take a break" and be by myself to reevaluate where I''m going with my life (You may not want to sign a new lease, just move out for a month and stay with a friend while he can see if he misses you, don''t date during that time, just reflect on your options). Its crucial that you be ready, willing, and able to split if necessary.
From what you''ve said I wouldn''t be surprised if he''s going to propose. You might want to wait until after your trip to be really sure he doesn''t have something up his sleeve. You don''t want to come across as pre-empting him (I pre-empted with a fight 2 days before he was going to ask and I ended up in the penalty box for about 3 weeks!) but from what you''ve said he''s led you to believe engagement is coming. If he hasn''t asked by the end of the trip you have every right to say what the heck''s going on???
Also, as far as the talk is concerned. People have posted on this site that they''ve regretting having the talk because its turned out they''ve ended up in bad marriages; I don''t know that the talk had anything to do with that maybe the need to have such a talk for some people might be a symptom of a bigger problem; I had the talk with someone and we got engaged but if was so obvious he didn''t want to be with me it was pathetic. It wasn''t the talk that did it; it was him being ambivalent. I have also read that most marriages happen because the woman they are with wants it to happen. Lets face it why would a guy need to ever rush into anything when he can procreate any time he wants to. Its especially the case for guys without alot of married friends. I wouldn''t think of it so much as having THE TALK, as communicating your desires and finding out where he stands with respect to them. I bet 95% of couples have THE TALK in one form or another.
Anyway, you are completely justified, after all, he was the one who took you into Tiffanys and you are the one putting your life on hold.
Good Luck.
Sparkling
My heart goes out to you; I have been in your shoes. Here''s what I would say.
I am very interested in getting married to you. In order to plan a wedding we''ll need to be engaged. I would like to do this by date X . If there''s some reservations you have about moving forward, please let me know so we can resolve them or figure out if they aren''t resolveable. See what he says. Then if there''s no forward progress I''d go a step further and say, Marriage is very important to me. If we aren''t engaged by date X, around X (the start of the school year) or before such and such event (engaged can mean he''s asked, not that he''s produced a ring) I will need to "take a break" and be by myself to reevaluate where I''m going with my life (You may not want to sign a new lease, just move out for a month and stay with a friend while he can see if he misses you, don''t date during that time, just reflect on your options). Its crucial that you be ready, willing, and able to split if necessary.
From what you''ve said I wouldn''t be surprised if he''s going to propose. You might want to wait until after your trip to be really sure he doesn''t have something up his sleeve. You don''t want to come across as pre-empting him (I pre-empted with a fight 2 days before he was going to ask and I ended up in the penalty box for about 3 weeks!) but from what you''ve said he''s led you to believe engagement is coming. If he hasn''t asked by the end of the trip you have every right to say what the heck''s going on???
Also, as far as the talk is concerned. People have posted on this site that they''ve regretting having the talk because its turned out they''ve ended up in bad marriages; I don''t know that the talk had anything to do with that maybe the need to have such a talk for some people might be a symptom of a bigger problem; I had the talk with someone and we got engaged but if was so obvious he didn''t want to be with me it was pathetic. It wasn''t the talk that did it; it was him being ambivalent. I have also read that most marriages happen because the woman they are with wants it to happen. Lets face it why would a guy need to ever rush into anything when he can procreate any time he wants to. Its especially the case for guys without alot of married friends. I wouldn''t think of it so much as having THE TALK, as communicating your desires and finding out where he stands with respect to them. I bet 95% of couples have THE TALK in one form or another.
Anyway, you are completely justified, after all, he was the one who took you into Tiffanys and you are the one putting your life on hold.
Good Luck.
Sparkling
rms
Brilliant_Rock
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ammayernyc,
your situation is very similar to what mine was when my husband and I first started dating...scary how similar in some ways. I think that the suggestions that have been given you are excellent. I like how Buena Girl mentions that guys showhow think that they are giving some vibe that let''s girls know what they are thinking. My husband thinks that, and most of the time I feel like I have no clue what the heck he is thinking. So being frank and direct is a good approach, without being blunt for sure. I have the problem of being too blunt sometime and then all the emotions pour out and cloud the issues, especially when my husband is not emotional at all about it.
If anything, do you best to be as positive as you can when you do talk to each other about it!
your situation is very similar to what mine was when my husband and I first started dating...scary how similar in some ways. I think that the suggestions that have been given you are excellent. I like how Buena Girl mentions that guys showhow think that they are giving some vibe that let''s girls know what they are thinking. My husband thinks that, and most of the time I feel like I have no clue what the heck he is thinking. So being frank and direct is a good approach, without being blunt for sure. I have the problem of being too blunt sometime and then all the emotions pour out and cloud the issues, especially when my husband is not emotional at all about it.
If anything, do you best to be as positive as you can when you do talk to each other about it!
ammayernyc
Brilliant_Rock
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Thank you all for your suggestions.
It''s nice to know that there are people out there in my situation. I seem to know no one like me. All of my friends who are married did not date their bf/gf for more than two years. My family is driving me crazy (and have been from the begining).
He''s just so hard to talk to sometimes. We completely react differently to similar situations. When I ask him direct questions, he literally answers me with, "I don''t know." This is so frustrating! So, if I need to talk to him about something, I tell him he can''t say that to me. So, he usually says, "uh oh" before the conversation begins. He also has a tendecy to literally not answer me. He will just say nothing or say, ''baby...'' or ''Amanda...'' or some other one word phrase that he thinks will stop me from realizing that he didn''t answer the question.
Another little antic -- he literally never tells me that he loves me. It''s not that he doesn''t show it. He does -- completely. He just never says it. (I don''t really tell him either, but that''s in response to him...). After a year of dating, I finally said it before we went to sleep and were spooning. His response -- he hugged me. Said nothing. So, I started crying and said that if he wanted to break up with me and blah, blah, blah. He said that he does love me too. So, I sort of learned to live with this. Not my favorite thing, but I prefer it to the alternative which is what I had with a previous boyfriend -- he told me all the time how much he loved me, but was cheating on me throughout the whole relationship.
So, the other night, I was a little tipsy and asked him why he never tells me. He didn''t answer me. Just laid there. Said nothing. I wanted to cry, but I didn''t b/c I kept telling me that he doesn''t need to say it mean it. The next day, we were getting ready for work and he stopped me and looked me in the eyes and said, ''You know I love you, right? I''m sorry I don''t tell you enough. I have to work on that." So happy!!!
We both feel that life is meant for living, and not talking about. But this obviously needs to be talked about.
We plan things for the future, so it''s not like I don''t believe there won''t be one... I just would much rather have him propose without having this discussion!
It''s nice to know that there are people out there in my situation. I seem to know no one like me. All of my friends who are married did not date their bf/gf for more than two years. My family is driving me crazy (and have been from the begining).
He''s just so hard to talk to sometimes. We completely react differently to similar situations. When I ask him direct questions, he literally answers me with, "I don''t know." This is so frustrating! So, if I need to talk to him about something, I tell him he can''t say that to me. So, he usually says, "uh oh" before the conversation begins. He also has a tendecy to literally not answer me. He will just say nothing or say, ''baby...'' or ''Amanda...'' or some other one word phrase that he thinks will stop me from realizing that he didn''t answer the question.
Another little antic -- he literally never tells me that he loves me. It''s not that he doesn''t show it. He does -- completely. He just never says it. (I don''t really tell him either, but that''s in response to him...). After a year of dating, I finally said it before we went to sleep and were spooning. His response -- he hugged me. Said nothing. So, I started crying and said that if he wanted to break up with me and blah, blah, blah. He said that he does love me too. So, I sort of learned to live with this. Not my favorite thing, but I prefer it to the alternative which is what I had with a previous boyfriend -- he told me all the time how much he loved me, but was cheating on me throughout the whole relationship.
So, the other night, I was a little tipsy and asked him why he never tells me. He didn''t answer me. Just laid there. Said nothing. I wanted to cry, but I didn''t b/c I kept telling me that he doesn''t need to say it mean it. The next day, we were getting ready for work and he stopped me and looked me in the eyes and said, ''You know I love you, right? I''m sorry I don''t tell you enough. I have to work on that." So happy!!!
We both feel that life is meant for living, and not talking about. But this obviously needs to be talked about.
We plan things for the future, so it''s not like I don''t believe there won''t be one... I just would much rather have him propose without having this discussion!
fountainfairfax
Brilliant_Rock
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Doesn''t that last statement say it all?! We all want that magic suprise, well before we expected it (but certainly once we''re ready) with all preceeding discusions to have been open, easy exchanges of ideas and opinions....it should be so much easier than it is for many of us!!!!!Date: 4/6/2005 1:444 PM
Author: ammayernyc
We plan things for the future, so it''s not like I don''t believe there won''t be one... I just would much rather have him propose without having this discussion!
I really think that we sometimes have to give up the fairy tale of not having the discussion and JUST DO IT! "Honey, I''ve been thinking a lot about our relationship. This isn''t a proposal, but I very much want to be your wife." wait for the response.
If its positive then move forward with "I''d like to be married by_______. What do you think?" Again, if its positive do what the others have mentioned and say "well the first step to getting there is to get engaged..." and let that open up his feelings towards getting engaged, how he wants to handle it, blah, blah, blah...
Personally, I share with my BF a lot of what I discuss on both PS and the LIW thread..I tell him the wonderful engagement stories I read here and also explain some of pain that we share. I think him hearing all of this makes it all a little more "normal" or universal, that we''re not the only ones going through these kinds of decisions. I don''t hide my "bridal ****" aka wedding mags- I show him when I think something is pretty & we get a good laugh out of things we both think are crazy! When I told him I wanted to get married, I made it clear to him that I wanted to get married to HIM, not just get married....that ring or no ring I simply wanted to be his wife...and he told me that made all the difference to him! I still want a suprise proposal, I want him to be excited about the ring and to carefully plan how he makes it "official" but if that doesn''t happen I will look forward to all the great suprises to come throughout our lives together.
Ammayer- I know this is so tough, to have to bring up something that we usually assume should happen automatically, but having to do so doesn''t lessen a relationship or the meaning of the commitment you''ll both be making. Open discussions are not the same as nagging, they are healthy ways of being heard, of expressing your wishes and desires. When all that stuff sits inside us we overeat, don''t exercise, spend too much or just lay around...I also have a few too many mojitos and get crazy fantasies of cashing out my 401K to buy a Leon masterpiece, but that''s just me! You have to be true to what you want and know in your heart that by being open & honest you''re making an investment in your future happiness!
innerkitten
Ideal_Rock
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Some people will say that you shouldn''t push the subject. But sometimes there needs to be a little nudge. Ultamatums may not be the answer but it''s also good to get things out in the open and there is no reason you shouldn''t have a time line, especially if you are already living together and you are in your 30s. You deserve to know if and when.
elepri
Brilliant_Rock
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Am,
I"m wondering, did you guys have a talk about marriage in general, not in terms of your timeline but what marriage means to both of you? I know for my now fi, getting married in general was a much scarier idea than marrying me in particular. I was ready before he was, I told him I wanted to be married by 30. However, my very articulate boyfriend was just having trouble talking about that particular subject. He finally really opened up about his marriage-related anxieties and not just fears of getting divorced, by also fears of moving to the ''burbs, getting fat, having kids, never traveling again or doing any other fun things we like to do and just in general becoming the most conventional, dull couple. It was sort of a turning point for us because for one he brought up all the anxities I had about marriage myself but didn''t want to admit so on the one hand, I knew what was keeping him from proposing, on the other hand, he was reassured that my idea of marriage did not involve all those things. He proposed shortly after, no ultimatum was needed. Now he tells me he knew he wanted to marry me a couple of months after we met, it took him another 2 years to figure out he wanted to be married in general.
I"m wondering, did you guys have a talk about marriage in general, not in terms of your timeline but what marriage means to both of you? I know for my now fi, getting married in general was a much scarier idea than marrying me in particular. I was ready before he was, I told him I wanted to be married by 30. However, my very articulate boyfriend was just having trouble talking about that particular subject. He finally really opened up about his marriage-related anxieties and not just fears of getting divorced, by also fears of moving to the ''burbs, getting fat, having kids, never traveling again or doing any other fun things we like to do and just in general becoming the most conventional, dull couple. It was sort of a turning point for us because for one he brought up all the anxities I had about marriage myself but didn''t want to admit so on the one hand, I knew what was keeping him from proposing, on the other hand, he was reassured that my idea of marriage did not involve all those things. He proposed shortly after, no ultimatum was needed. Now he tells me he knew he wanted to marry me a couple of months after we met, it took him another 2 years to figure out he wanted to be married in general.
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