Suggestions for possibly buying an uncertified stone

[bk_photo]

Hello,
I am new to this forum and looking for some opinions on uncertified diamonds. There is a local jeweler that has been recommended by several people I know, they have had work done there and are satisfied. I am looking to purchase an engagement ring from him or somewhere else sometime soon. I have seen good prices online but I think my GF would not like it if I bought a diamond online no matter how reputable the place. I am looking to spend in the $3000 range for the complete ring. I wish I could afford more but I am still a poor college student. I am looking for an emerald cut center stone probably in the .5 to .75 carat range. This jeweler has some nice looking stones but they are not certified. I was able to look at them under a microscope and the stone he showed me looked very clean even at 30x but how can I tell about the rest of the properties besides the clarity and color with it not being certified. His prices are better because the stones are not certified and also because he is a smaller store than some of the other places in town I have looked at. I don''t have any reason to distrust this jeweler but at the same time this is one of the biggest decisions I have ever made and I want to make sure I get a quality stone for my girl. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Brian

 

[oldminer]

Okay, you can buy an uncerted stone, BUT the seller must tell you what you are about to buy. This will at the very least include the EXACT CARAT WEIGHT, the GIA color grade and the GIA clarity grade. YOU NEED THIS IN WRITING AND ON THE BILL OF SALE. That is the bare MINIMUM.

At the point that you have that data, come back to the pricescope search and see just how good the deal potentially is. Compare the price you have been given to the prices others are offering certed stones for. I bet you will be completely surprised!!!! Remember, that a diamond without a document is very likely to have been overgraded by the seller in the hope you will "trust him"....

You cannot be expected to see inclusions in a microscope without training your eyes. Don't let yourself be fooled. The price of a CERT is not enough to really change the value of a diamond in the size you are looking for. If you want to make a good deal with your $3,000, don't get impulsive. Your jeweler may be the nicest guy in town and an honest person, but none of the reasons given you so far make a bit of real difference. I smell something fishy, although in this case you may be getting a great bargain.

Please, do what I suggested BEFORE you make a firm committment to buy.

 

[lenore80]

hmmm...what i would try to do is get your girlfriend more involved on the education/buying process. I never wanted to buy my diamond online either, but i am seirously considering it.

The problem with emerald cuts is that they show a lot of flaws. So i would be very careful about the grading, esp. since a .5-.75 isnt exactly small.

lenore

 

[mdx]

G'day Brian
As Dave mentioned there is essentially nothing wrong with buying an uncertified diamond however you will need a good knowledge of diamond technology.
I would suggest that you make your purchase subject an independent appraisal by a suitably qualified appraiser of your choice. If the sale goes ahead you will need an appraisal for insurance anyway.

Wayne
Melbourne Diamond Exchange Ltd (Australia)

 

[bk_photo]

Thanks for your suggestions everyone. Dave don't worry I have not made any commitments to buy anything yet. I might have him bring in some more diamonds for me to look at because he doesn't carry that many in stock. He said he can have some to show me in about a week or less from the time I ask to see them. I might ask him to do this because the stones he was showing me were nice but I could still afford a little bit larger stone. The one he showed me was a .54 carat he was saying it was at least VS1 and about G color. The price was $1400 for just the stone. Then for the entire set (E-ring and wedding ring) it was $2500 for .29 CTW (18k white gold) for the baguette and round diamond on each side. so the ring CTW would be .83 and I wanted to look at some .60 and up center stones to bring the CTW closer to 1CT. I will certainly get whatever he claims the diamond to be in writing and as you said I will have to get it appraised for insurance (I thought I might have to do that) I will try and take some photos of the stones but I can't really do that under magnification too easily so I will see what I can do. There is another jewelery store in town that is a large store but all of their diamonds are certified and I believe they have certified gemologists on the premises. They quoted me a .64 CT E-cut G/VS1 for $2100 with a setting for about $325 with another .25 CTW in the baguettes and round stones (pretty much the same setting except 14k instead of 18k white gold) Sorry for such a long post but as you can imagine I have a lot of information I am considering, along with trying to put together the proposal. Thanks

Brian

 

[valeria101]

An EGL cert is 200 and takes time. But for a small stone(because in a small object the visual effect of color and cut have less room to make themselves felt), your eyes are the best grading tool. Best of luck!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I suggest you lower your clarity to SI1 SI2 because if you can not see the inclusion with your naked eye then you know for sure that you are getting what you are paying for.

next - drop the color to GHI because that is the point where you can start to see some color when comparing a stone to one he has labelled as a higher color.

This will also get you a larger size and a happier girl

 

[DiamondInfo]

Good Morning Brian,

I agree with most of the suggestions that have been posted for you so far. May I suggest that you concentrate more on the actual millimeter dimensions (true size)of the center diamond instead of its carat weight? You might be surprised that the diamond with the lower weight actually is "larger" or the same in millimeter size than the diamond that weighs several points more. You see, the measure of carats is not physical size, but rather how much it weighs on a scale or balance (one carat is equal to one-fifth of a gram). For example: you can compare 10 different diamonds side by side, that are each the same in carat weight but may appear dramatically different in physical dimensional size. In the absence of a GIA grading report, I suggest that you have your diamond source use a millimeter micrometer (it's what gemologists use and is more accurate than the commonly used jeweler's Leverage Gauge)in your presence to determine the diamond's actual millimeter size. This will make your comparison shopping experience much easier.

You obviously realize how important this purchase is for you and your fiance. May I also suggest that whomever you buy from, diamonds without laboratory grading reports cost less because their grading and value is most often speculative at best. To insure you are getting the most value, it's rarely in your best interest to buy a diamond without the best grading report (GIA or AGS). Consider this: if you ever want to upgrade this diamond to a larger one or desire to trade it in, the second-hand market offers the lowest price for non-certed diamonds because the diamond's value and grade are just as speculative as the day you first selected and purchased it. Please contact me if you have any further questions. In advance, you have our very best wishes.

Good Luck!

 

[oldminer]

Look at all the free and good avice someone gets here. Truly amazing!

Leonid should create an on-line book or even author a printed book.

 

[Giangi]

I'm sorry but an EGL report is $55 and takes less than 72 hours. A GIA takes 2 weeks. IGI and HRD both Antwerp about 5-7 days. I think they're worth their cost in a 0.50+ vs quality stone.

 

[oldminer]

Whenever a consumer or seller posts the color or clarity grades of an EGL report, almost every expert or wanna be expert tells that person that EGL gives color and/or clarity grades that are liberal or inaccurate. Even if the EGL report is exactly correct, none of us is looking at the most important aspect, THE DIAMOND. We are just blindly criticizing based on generalities and not cold facts.

For that reason, I never knock the EGL or its reports. I have seen many that I felt I agreed with and were within the range of credibility a client might rely upon. I have also seen some that were downright liberal and I am being very kind using "liberal" When the EGL has the grading right, the value of their report is excellent for the price. When inaccurate, there is no value in the cost of the report. You need to see the diamond and not carelessly throw out blanket statements that any lab is always "good" or always "bad".

So, what's the point of the $55 EGL report unless a qualified and trusted expert can physically grade the diamond? No point, I'd say. It is $55 thrown out as no one qualified will blindly say it is right. Of course, the seller will always claim the accuracy of a favorable report, but that isn't going to do a consumer any good at all.

If the seller will not guarantee the exact grade, either have a recognized expert independently grade it, or have the patience to insist upon an AGS or GIA report. Then, and only then, do you have what you need, that is reliable enough, upon which to base your decision.

This is a patient and cautious approach. The most common reason for consumer problems with a diamond purchase is impulsiveness or impatience and the mistakes that happen under pressure.

 

[bk_photo]

Thank you all for the great advice so far. I am most likely going to call my jeweler tomorrow to see what I can do to get him to bring in some stones possibly with certifications, I mean I mainly want a stone that will be eye clean, and preferably clean to the untrained eye even at 10x so I would like to stay in the VS2 and higher clarity range because it is an emerald cut stone that I am looking at. I would maybe go as low as H color, I think that will enable me to go a little larger than before without really sacrificing quality. If this jeweler can do all the measurements besides the Carat weight I might consider buying an uncerted stone but I will have to get it appraised most likely anway for insurance, so we will see what he has available. Also do you think that many stores are likely to come down in price if I show them some prices available online. Although I would prefer to not buy online I could maybe use it as some leverage to get a better price from a B&M store. Any more comments or suggestions gladly accepted.

Thanks
Brian

 

[lady*jane]

Is a Firescope and / or Brilliantscope analysis part of either of these certifications? If we (novices) are buying a non-round and thus cannot use HCA it seems the best way to know if it has good light return, etc is one of these scope reports, true?

I do have an idealscope but since I've not had much experience with it I am hoping a scope report can be obtained reasonably easily.
Cheers,
-Jane